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  1. #326
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    +1

    [/end_thread]
    Who are you to muzzle a thread? I suggest that if you don't like it you ignore it and concentrate on another one.
    Gimme that car-free living!

  2. #327
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
    Who are you to muzzle a thread? I suggest that if you don't like it you ignore it and concentrate on another one.
    Lighten up!!

    Do you even have a sense of humour?

  3. #328
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Lighten up!!

    Do you even have a sense of humour?
    That's your idea of humor?
    Gimme that car-free living!

  4. #329
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
    That's your idea of humor?
    Keep working on it ... eventually you'll get the whole "lighten up" thing. The world is not a bleak and dismal place.

    Maybe try going for a ride for fun for a change.

  5. #330
    Uninformed Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
    That's your idea of humor?
    It was apparent to me that she was not being serious. And no, it wasn't her idea of humor. It was her idea of humour.

  6. #331
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared. View Post
    It was apparent to me that she was not being serious. And no, it wasn't her idea of humor. It was her idea of humour.
    Thanks. Now we've had two explanations of this "joke."

    As regards spelling, I'll stick to the reforms established by Mr. Noah Webster if it's all the same to you.
    Gimme that car-free living!

  7. #332
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogertc1 View Post
    Right this moment at 530AM. The temp outside is -20 below ) F. OR -28 for you not in the use and use Celsius. This does not take into account the blowing wind. There are piles of snow and the streets are still snow packed because the last 5 inches we got 2 days ago can't melt. Thoes 5" are on top of the last 12 + inches of accumulated snow.
    No subway or busses here.
    Quit whining and get on your bike!
    Last edited by loky1179; 02-11-14 at 07:17 PM. Reason: Smiley face added to denote attempt at humorous comment.

  8. #333
    Bicycle Rights MattCycle's Avatar
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    Basic market forces. Car free isn't an economical option for most people. Unless you live in an urban area with half way decent public transportation or car alternatives (i.e. Zip Car), you'll still need a car and gas is only a small part of the cost of car ownership. Combine this with limited job radius, job flexibility and limited jobs in urban centers. So even if this wasn't true for most of the population, people generally don't respond well to elitism.

  9. #334
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattCycle View Post
    Basic market forces. Car free isn't an economical option for most people. Unless you live in an urban area with half way decent public transportation or car alternatives (i.e. Zip Car), you'll still need a car and gas is only a small part of the cost of car ownership. Combine this with limited job radius, job flexibility and limited jobs in urban centers. So even if this wasn't true for most of the population, people generally don't respond well to elitism.
    Basic market forces. I save one hell of a lot of money by being car free.

    I generally don't respond well to elitism. That's another reason I don't own a car.
    Gimme that car-free living!

  10. #335
    Bicycle Rights MattCycle's Avatar
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    If you don't have a car at all, then yes, but being absolutely car free doesn't add up in the cost benefit analysis for most people. If you need a car once a week, the cost savings is minimal since you still have to buy the car and insure it. Then you figure that even if you live in an area that car free is practical, that limits your job and housing radius (a fact maybe lost in Spain). You can travel farther and faster in a car, this means more potential jobs, and should you lose your job, it means you don't necessarily have to move. The market forces of home ownership also discriminate against moving. In the US most families have two cars, they could probably downsize to one. However there are very few places, and therefore few people, to live somewhere dense, developed, employed, stable and affordable to live absolutely car free. Those few people impress their lifestyle as an option for everyone else and it isn't.

  11. #336
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattCycle View Post
    Those few people impress [sic] their lifestyle as an option for everyone else and it isn't.
    I'm not sure what you mean by "impress" in this sentence but, as far as I know, no one who posts here has ever said that living absolutely car free is an option for everyone. Who are you making these wild claims about?
    Gimme that car-free living!

  12. #337
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattCycle View Post
    If you don't have a car at all, then yes, but being absolutely car free doesn't add up in the cost benefit analysis for most people. If you need a car once a week, the cost savings is minimal since you still have to buy the car and insure it. Then you figure that even if you live in an area that car free is practical, that limits your job and housing radius (a fact maybe lost in Spain). You can travel farther and faster in a car, this means more potential jobs, and should you lose your job, it means you don't necessarily have to move. The market forces of home ownership also discriminate against moving. In the US most families have two cars, they could probably downsize to one. However there are very few places, and therefore few people, to live somewhere dense, developed, employed, stable and affordable to live absolutely car free. Those few people impress their lifestyle as an option for everyone else and it isn't.
    Thanks for sharing. If I'm not mistaken, you're sYing that the reason for backlash is that carfree people are pushing an impractical lifestyle on others. Then you present some reasons why you think carfree living is impractical.

    The reasons you think it's impractical are very elementary and have already been discussed on this forum many many times. Most of us do understand that location is an important consideration, for example, and we do get that cars are faster than bikes in many cases. The financial issues have also been featured in many threads. You might be interested in reading through some of the earlier threads to get up to speed.

    There are solutions and work-arounds for all of the problems that you mention. Those few people with a basic interest in driving less will approach with an open mind to learn whether low car usage can work for them, or what they need to do to make it work. Some will decide to try it, others will decide that carfree living just won't work for them. The vast majority have already decided that it's a stupid idea, so they will move along without putting much thought into it. That's certainly no loss to me--I have no desire to "impress" my carfree or carlight lifestyle on uninterested people!
    Last edited by Roody; 02-12-14 at 01:53 AM.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  13. #338
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by "impress" in this sentence but, as far as I know, no one who posts here has ever said that living absolutely car free is an option for everyone. Who are you making these wild claims about?
    Could this misunderstanding be a source of the backlash?


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  14. #339
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    Could this misunderstanding be a source of the backlash?
    It's seems to be fashionable in some circles to insult supporters of car-free and car-light lifestyles and anyone who expresses concern about the environment. I think it's more than a simple misunderstanding. Certain powers that be are waging a war through the American corporate media.

    http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/cam...ch-industries/
    Last edited by Ekdog; 02-12-14 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Added a link.
    Gimme that car-free living!

  15. #340
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
    It's seems to be fashionable in some circles to insult supporters of car-free and car-light lifestyles and anyone who expresses concern about the environment. I think it's more than a simple misunderstanding. Certain powers that be are waging a war through the American corporate media.
    Ah yes, the reason why there may be a backlash against off topic political ranting posts from the Elders of LCF:

    A trite and clichéd tinfoil hat theory about mysterious "Certain powers that be are waging a war through the American corporate media."

    Perfect!

  16. #341
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    the Elders of LCF
    !
    Hey! I resent that! Ekdog and I are both younger than you! In fact, if you combined our ages we would still be younger than you...



    "Think Outside the Cage"

  17. #342
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    Cycling is great because it cuts down on air pollution and saves lives. Let's all cycle more!

    Beware! The above statements, in the mind of a certain BF elder statesman, are "off topic political rantings" and "trite and clichéd tinfoil hat theories" put forward by a radical, socialist, bomb-throwing anarchist who should be banned from this subforum.
    Gimme that car-free living!

  18. #343
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
    Cycling is great because it cuts down on air pollution and saves lives. Let's all cycle more!

    Beware! The above statements, in the mind of a certain BF elder statesman, are "off topic political rantings" and "trite and clichéd tinfoil hat theories" put forward by a radical, socialist, bomb-throwing anarchist who should be banned from this subforum.
    If that is how you wish to describe yourself, then let it be done.

  19. #344
    Senior Member RPK79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    If that is how you wish to describe yourself, then let it be done.
    Look no further than their signature.

    Pro-bike, anti-car and damned proud of it!


    Clearly Ekdog has an agenda beyond living car free. They are admittedly and proudly "anti-car". It's easy to see where backlash can come from. I'm a heterosexual male and if I went around proclaiming myself being "pro-straight, anti-gay and damned proud of it" there would be backlash.

    (Please note I am not anti-gay or pro-straight this is simply a hypothetical)

  20. #345
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    If that is how you wish to describe yourself, then let it be done.
    So, if we can get back to the issues....

    I'm not sure you're defending your position very well. The emotions are so strong that they blot out your ideas!

    My impression is that you dispute assertions that energy corporations attempt to influence the public debate about environmental issues, transportation policies, and so forth. You evidently don't believe there is any backlash against environmentalism or cycling. Or if there is backlash, it's well deserved because of bad behavior or a bad attitude by the environmentalists and cyclists.

    Is that the gist of it? Do you also generally favor deregulation of the energy industry and other pollution generators? Do you believe that regulation usually reduces employment and corporate earnings? What pertinent facts or observations support your positions?


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  21. #346
    Senior Member RPK79's Avatar
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    See, now we're not even talking about living car free we're talking about environmentalism. This is a clear demonstration of why some would backlash against people advocating for car free living since it eventually turns into them talking about environmentalism and since environmentalism is basically a religion to some people it becomes near impossible to have a rational conversation with them. So, it becomes easier just to shut the whole thing down right from the beginning when they start talking car free living.

  22. #347
    Senior Member muzpuf's Avatar
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    I am very Pro-bike .......I put more miles on my bike every year then on my automobile .....BUT ...when I do drive I drive a SUV
    Global Warming Is A Hoax

  23. #348
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
    See, now we're not even talking about living car free we're talking about environmentalism. This is a clear demonstration of why some would backlash against people advocating for car free living since it eventually turns into them talking about environmentalism and since environmentalism is basically a religion to some people it becomes near impossible to have a rational conversation with them. So, it becomes easier just to shut the whole thing down right from the beginning when they start talking car free living.
    But to some extent, you're doing the same thing that you accuse environmentalists of doing. That is, "shutting the whole thing down" rather than having a good faith argument about the actual issues.

    So what would be a less emotional summary of your own views on this backlash issue? Try to focus on stating your own positions, rather than worrying about the irrational responses that you might get from others.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  24. #349
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzpuf View Post
    I am very Pro-bike .......I put more miles on my bike every year then on my automobile .....BUT ...when I do drive I drive a SUV
    Sounds like a beer commercial.

    Do you ever get any backlash or negativity from either the cyclists or the SUV drivers?


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  25. #350
    Senior Member RPK79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    But to some extent, you're doing the same thing that you accuse environmentalists of doing. That is, "shutting the whole thing down" rather than having a good faith argument about the actual issues.

    So what would be a less emotional summary of your own views on this backlash issue? Try to focus on stating your own positions, rather than worrying about the irrational responses that you might get from others.
    Why should I have to frame my argument for you? I'm not trying to prevent backlash against any sort of advocacy.

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