Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 15 of 18 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast
Results 351 to 375 of 444
  1. #351
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    19,937
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    So, if we can get back to the issues....

    I'm not sure you're defending your position very well. The emotions are so strong that they blot out your ideas!

    My impression is that you dispute assertions that energy corporations attempt to influence the public debate about environmental issues, transportation policies, and so forth. You evidently don't believe there is any backlash against environmentalism or cycling. Or if there is backlash, it's well deserved because of bad behavior or a bad attitude by the environmentalists and cyclists.

    Is that the gist of it?
    No that is not it!

    The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.

    The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/sociology geeks on bicycles.

    BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
    Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 02-12-14 at 01:45 PM.

  2. #352
    Senior Member RPK79's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    SE MN
    My Bikes
    Fuji Roubaix Pro
    Posts
    3,785
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    No that is not it!

    The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.

    The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/social geeks on bicycles.

    BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
    Well said.

  3. #353
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    My Bikes
    1984 Trek 520; 1990s Peugeot (Canadian-made) rigid mountain bike; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
    Posts
    8,449
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    No that is not it!

    The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.

    The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/sociology geeks on bicycles.

    BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
    Even if that is all true it only explains half the equation. Let's suppose one group is promoting a specific worldview, publicizing the downside of cars or exposing what they think are special interests promoting a car-dependent lifestyle, or arguing for car-free living as one part of a larger environmental approach.

    They could be voices crying in the wilderness, unnoticed and unimportant. No more relevant than the guy with the end-of-the world prophesy on the street corner. Not on anybody's radar. Invisible.

    But no, they get a robust response, often very negative and often distorting and misrepresenting what was said, like the poster who is convinced we're trying to take away his cars. What is THAT all about? Why is this supposedly laughable nonsense getting people (including you) so worked up?
    Last edited by cooker; 02-12-14 at 02:20 PM.

  4. #354
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    My Bikes
    1984 Trek 520; 1990s Peugeot (Canadian-made) rigid mountain bike; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
    Posts
    8,449
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
    See, now we're not even talking about living car free we're talking about environmentalism. This is a clear demonstration of why some would backlash against people advocating for car free living since it eventually turns into them talking about environmentalism and since environmentalism is basically a religion to some people it becomes near impossible to have a rational conversation with them. So, it becomes easier just to shut the whole thing down right from the beginning when they start talking car free living.
    Okay, but saying that part of the backlash against car-free advocacy is because it may be linked to environmentalism and there is a backlash against environmentalism, simply leads to the larger question of why is there a backlash against environmentalism? So your response doesn't really answer the OP question, it just puts it in a larger context.

  5. #355
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Seville, Spain
    My Bikes
    Brompton M6R and mountain bikes equipped for touring.
    Posts
    3,155
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
    Clearly Ekdog has an agenda beyond living car free. They are admittedly and proudly "anti-car". It's easy to see where backlash can come from.
    I happen to think that an important part of car-free living is the environment. I don't buy that it's a political issue. It's science.

    I like discussing all of the issues related to car-free living, but the environment and traffic fatalities are two of the most important to me. How are those "beyond car free living"? Some folks like discussing car-free living and physical fitness, the amount of money they save, the fun they have and so on. Are those agendas to be avoided, too?
    Gimme that car-free living!

  6. #356
    Member rogertc1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Iowa
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Campe D'Italian 84, Trek custom touring bike- 1986
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    An anti-American view. You must hate Obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
    It's seems to be fashionable in some circles to insult supporters of car-free and car-light lifestyles and anyone who expresses concern about the environment. I think it's more than a simple misunderstanding. Certain powers that be are waging a war through the American corporate media.

    http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/cam...ch-industries/

  7. #357
    Bicycle Rights MattCycle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Newport Beach, CA
    Posts
    73
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by "impress" in this sentence but, as far as I know, no one who posts here has ever said that living absolutely car free is an option for everyone. Who are you making these wild claims about?
    Why are you emotionally invested in this? There simply isn't a one size fits all and there are people who promote this or lord over other people because of it. I'd venture to say that a signature "anti-car" falls into that category. On any other issue you would receive the same "backlash" if you had a myopic outlook.

    Edit:Impress:to take or persuade into service by forceful arguments: The neighbors were impressed into helping the family move.
    Last edited by MattCycle; 02-12-14 at 04:55 PM.

  8. #358
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    20,490
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    No that is not it!

    The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.

    The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/sociology geeks on bicycles.

    BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
    I'm not going to respond to your continuing personal insults. But I am going to remind you that they are inappropriate and in violation of forum guidelines. You may believe that these discussions are off topic, but clearly you have little support among other members or the staff. If you really do believe that this thread is off topic or stupid, the obvious solution is to ignore it, rather than continue with unprovoked personal attacks.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  9. #359
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    20,490
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    No that is not it!

    The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.

    The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/sociology geeks on bicycles.

    BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
    I'm not going to respond to your continuing insults. If you believe that this thread is off topic or stupid, the obvious solution is to ignore it, rather than continue with disruption and unprovoked personal attacks.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  10. #360
    Bicycle Rights MattCycle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Newport Beach, CA
    Posts
    73
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    Thanks for sharing. If I'm not mistaken, you're sYing that the reason for backlash is that carfree people are pushing an impractical lifestyle on others. Then you present some reasons why you think carfree living is impractical.

    The reasons you think it's impractical are very elementary and have already been discussed on this forum many many times. Most of us do understand that location is an important consideration, for example, and we do get that cars are faster than bikes in many cases. The financial issues have also been featured in many threads. You might be interested in reading through some of the earlier threads to get up to speed.

    There are solutions and work-arounds for all of the problems that you mention. Those few people with a basic interest in driving less will approach with an open mind to learn whether low car usage can work for them, or what they need to do to make it work. Some will decide to try it, others will decide that carfree living just won't work for them. The vast majority have already decided that it's a stupid idea, so they will move along without putting much thought into it. That's certainly no loss to me--I have no desire to "impress" my carfree or carlight lifestyle on uninterested people!
    I did present reasons why living car free is impractical for SOME people. Not everyone can live in a dense urban area. It's expensive, job limiting and mobility limiting should you lose your job. All of this is exacerbated as population (and jobs) go down. And unless you want to be poor forever, moving every few years isn't an option. Look at retirement and social security, it is based upon the idea that the elderly have a lower cost of living. Homeownership, not renting, will eventually remove the largest cost of home ownership. There is no work around solution. This is why car FREE isn't practical for most people.

    Living car light is a different story. This is possible for many people.

    Edit:Impress: to take or persuade into service by forceful arguments: The neighbors were impressed into helping the family move.

  11. #361
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    20,490
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MattCycle View Post
    I did present reasons why living car free is impractical for SOME people. Not everyone can live in a dense urban area. It's expensive, job limiting and mobility limiting should you lose your job. All of this is exacerbated as population (and jobs) go down. And unless you want to be poor forever, moving every few years isn't an option. Look at retirement and social security, it is based upon the idea that the elderly have a lower cost of living. Homeownership, not renting, will eventually remove the largest cost of home ownership. There is no work around solution. This is why car FREE isn't practical for most people.

    Living car light is a different story. This is possible for many people.

    Edit:Impress: to take or persuade into service by forceful arguments: The neighbors were impressed into helping the family move.
    I have to smile when somebody says it's impossible--and I've been doing it all my life.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  12. #362
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    19,937
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I'm not going to respond to your continuing personal insults. But I am going to remind you that they are inappropriate and in violation of forum guidelines. You may believe that these discussions are off topic, but clearly you have little support among other members or the staff. If you really do believe that this thread is off topic or stupid, the obvious solution is to ignore it, rather than continue with unprovoked personal attacks.
    All I will say is, that after you mangled the meaning what I said with your incorrect paraphrasing you specifically asked me, "Is that the gist of it?"

    I responded accurately to answer your question and you return all blue in the face (electronically) with nonsense about personal insults, personal attacks, and inappropriate violations of guidelines. Just admit it you can't handle any answer that doesn't meet your approval.

    But I will take some advice that I previously received and NEVER answer any of your questions or ever provide a response to you as you are now off my radar of people to take seriously.

  13. #363
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    My Bikes
    1984 Trek 520; 1990s Peugeot (Canadian-made) rigid mountain bike; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
    Posts
    8,449
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rogertc1 View Post
    An anti-American view. You must hate Obama.
    I'm still hoping you'll respond thoughtfully on why this thread is personal for you - you suggested some of us want to deny you your cars - where does that come from? Is there some way in which people promoting a car-free or even environmentalist agenda represent a threat to your freedoms or lifestyle?

  14. #364
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    My Bikes
    1984 Trek 520; 1990s Peugeot (Canadian-made) rigid mountain bike; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
    Posts
    8,449
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by RPK79 View Post
    Why should I have to frame my argument for[Roody]?
    Because you're voluntarily participating in this thread where we're trying to understand backlash to car-free advocacy. If the backlash is because it contains an environmental message, then what is it about that environmental message that needs to be "shut down"? Is there something scary about it?

  15. #365
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    1,411
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
    I happen to think that an important part of car-free living is the environment. I don't buy that it's a political issue. It's science.
    You may not buy that it's a political issue, but it is. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is. And will remain so for the foreseeable future.

    Given our extremely polarized society, there are a fair number of people for whom any mention of anything remotely related to caring for environment brands you as one of "them." Anyone who cares about the environment must be a liberal. And if you're a liberal, you must be a socialist.

    Of course that's totally silly. There are people concerned with protecting the environment who are not on the left side of the political spectrum and environmentalism has nothing whatsoever to do with socialism or any other economic theory.

    But as long as a significant part of the population continues to make these associations, it will remain a political issue and there will be backlash against things like advocating car free (or light) living that has little basis in reality. That it's baseless does not make it any less real.

  16. #366
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Seville, Spain
    My Bikes
    Brompton M6R and mountain bikes equipped for touring.
    Posts
    3,155
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
    You may not buy that it's a political issue, but it is. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is. And will remain so for the foreseeable future.

    Given our extremely polarized society, there are a fair number of people for whom any mention of anything remotely related to caring for environment brands you as one of "them." Anyone who cares about the environment must be a liberal. And if you're a liberal, you must be a socialist.

    Of course that's totally silly. There are people concerned with protecting the environment who are not on the left side of the political spectrum and environmentalism has nothing whatsoever to do with socialism or any other economic theory.

    But as long as a significant part of the population continues to make these associations, it will remain a political issue and there will be backlash against things like advocating car free (or light) living that has little basis in reality. That it's baseless does not make it any less real.
    They can play that game if they want to, but I'm not going to participate. They think they can simply brand any issue they're uncomfortable with as "political" and have it banned from our conversations. Is it okay to discuss the outrageous number of traffic fatalities (over a million) that occur annually in the world or have they decided that that topic is in the political realm, too, and mustn't be broached? Is it all right to discuss mass transit? Many of these people won't put up with that, either.

    Concern about castastrophic global climate change and the environment are issues that have a lot to do with car-free living and they need to be discussed. It's as simple as that.
    Gimme that car-free living!

  17. #367
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Tallahassee, FL
    Posts
    1,411
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My apologies for misunderstanding the context. I wasn't even thinking of it terms of BF rules, I was just speaking about the segment of the general public that thinks any discussions on the environment are inherently political. And by so thinking, make it so in the public square.

    But I don't think discussing the environmental benefits of biking in lieu of driving is out of place here.

  18. #368
    Senior Member muzpuf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Argentin (X-4) Colnago Super, +3 misc Bianchi Corsa Bikes
    Posts
    443
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    my SUV gets 14mph so save all the fuel you want ....we will need it since NOW they say we are entering another ice age
    Global Warming Is A Hoax

  19. #369
    Senior Member muzpuf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    My Bikes
    Bianchi Argentin (X-4) Colnago Super, +3 misc Bianchi Corsa Bikes
    Posts
    443
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rogertc1 View Post
    An anti-American view. You must hate Obama.
    just the opposite the only person who is anti-American IS Obama
    Global Warming Is A Hoax

  20. #370
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    20,490
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In 15 pages, I don't think we ever mentioned a very real cause of backlash from motorists:

    "You get in my way...you slow me down...I'm scared I will run into you...you're making congestion worse with your bike lanes."


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  21. #371
    Bicycle Rights MattCycle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Newport Beach, CA
    Posts
    73
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I have to smile when somebody says it's impossible--and I've been doing it all my life.
    And this is why there is backlash. Because people like you realize not everyone is like you.

  22. #372
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    I ride where the thylacine roamed!
    My Bikes
    Lots
    Posts
    38,691
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    In 15 pages, I don't think we ever mentioned a very real cause of backlash from motorists:

    "You get in my way...you slow me down...I'm scared I will run into you...you're making congestion worse with your bike lanes."
    Is that an actual quote from somewhere ... or something from your imagination?

  23. #373
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    20,490
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Is that an actual quote from somewhere ... or something from your imagination?
    How snide!

    Actual quotes, heard many times and read in many places...opinion columns, blogs, city council meetings, conversations, and just yelled out car windows.

    This negativity may not be terribly widespread, but it is out there.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  24. #374
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Seville, Spain
    My Bikes
    Brompton M6R and mountain bikes equipped for touring.
    Posts
    3,155
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    How snide!

    Actual quotes, heard many times and read in many places...opinion columns, blogs, city council meetings, conversations, and just yelled out car windows.

    This negativity may not be terribly widespread, but it is out there.
    Local Legislator: No One Should Ever Ride Bikes In Suffolk County

    Gimme that car-free living!

  25. #375
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    20,490
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That's disgusting! (Or maybe it's just our imaginations?).


    "Think Outside the Cage"

Page 15 of 18 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •