Understanding Backlash Against Car-Free Advocacy
02-12-14, 02:41 PM
#351
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So, if we can get back to the issues....
I'm not sure you're defending your position very well. The emotions are so strong that they blot out your ideas!
My impression is that you dispute assertions that energy corporations attempt to influence the public debate about environmental issues, transportation policies, and so forth. You evidently don't believe there is any backlash against environmentalism or cycling. Or if there is backlash, it's well deserved because of bad behavior or a bad attitude by the environmentalists and cyclists.
Is that the gist of it?
I'm not sure you're defending your position very well. The emotions are so strong that they blot out your ideas!
My impression is that you dispute assertions that energy corporations attempt to influence the public debate about environmental issues, transportation policies, and so forth. You evidently don't believe there is any backlash against environmentalism or cycling. Or if there is backlash, it's well deserved because of bad behavior or a bad attitude by the environmentalists and cyclists.
Is that the gist of it?
The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.
The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/sociology geeks on bicycles.
BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 02-12-14 at 02:45 PM.
02-12-14, 02:43 PM
#352
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No that is not it!
The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.
The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/social geeks on bicycles.
BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.
The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/social geeks on bicycles.
BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
02-12-14, 03:12 PM
#353
Prefers Cicero
No that is not it!
The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.
The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/sociology geeks on bicycles.
BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.
The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/sociology geeks on bicycles.
BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
They could be voices crying in the wilderness, unnoticed and unimportant. No more relevant than the guy with the end-of-the world prophesy on the street corner. Not on anybody's radar. Invisible.
But no, they get a robust response, often very negative and often distorting and misrepresenting what was said, like the poster who is convinced we're trying to take away his cars. What is THAT all about? Why is this supposedly laughable nonsense getting people (including you) so worked up?
Last edited by cooker; 02-12-14 at 03:20 PM.
02-12-14, 03:19 PM
#354
Prefers Cicero
See, now we're not even talking about living car free we're talking about environmentalism. This is a clear demonstration of why some would backlash against people advocating for car free living since it eventually turns into them talking about environmentalism and since environmentalism is basically a religion to some people it becomes near impossible to have a rational conversation with them. So, it becomes easier just to shut the whole thing down right from the beginning when they start talking car free living.
02-12-14, 03:25 PM
#355
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I like discussing all of the issues related to car-free living, but the environment and traffic fatalities are two of the most important to me. How are those "beyond car free living"? Some folks like discussing car-free living and physical fitness, the amount of money they save, the fun they have and so on. Are those agendas to be avoided, too?
02-12-14, 05:10 PM
#356
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An anti-American view. You must hate Obama.
It's seems to be fashionable in some circles to insult supporters of car-free and car-light lifestyles and anyone who expresses concern about the environment. I think it's more than a simple misunderstanding. Certain powers that be are waging a war through the American corporate media.
https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/cam...ch-industries/
https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/cam...ch-industries/
02-12-14, 05:35 PM
#357
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Edit:Impress:to take or persuade into service by forceful arguments: The neighbors were impressed into helping the family move.
Last edited by MattCycle; 02-12-14 at 05:55 PM.
02-12-14, 05:38 PM
#358
Sophomoric Member
No that is not it!
The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.
The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/sociology geeks on bicycles.
BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.
The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/sociology geeks on bicycles.
BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
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02-12-14, 05:43 PM
#359
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No that is not it!
The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.
The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/sociology geeks on bicycles.
BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
The gist of it is that all the posting and ranting on thread after thread on THIS list about environmental, social, racial, and/or economic issues held dearly by you and several others is inappropriate, unappreciated by those not in your choir, and more than likely counterproductive (backlash if you like) to your alleged desire to positively influence others (not in your choir) towards Car free/Car lite living.
The OT ranting makes this list come across as just so much bloviating by political/sociology geeks on bicycles.
BTW, the references to corporate conspiracies waging war on the likes of the LCF Forum are so over the top as to be laughable, if not certifiable.
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02-12-14, 05:53 PM
#360
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Thanks for sharing. If I'm not mistaken, you're sYing that the reason for backlash is that carfree people are pushing an impractical lifestyle on others. Then you present some reasons why you think carfree living is impractical.
The reasons you think it's impractical are very elementary and have already been discussed on this forum many many times. Most of us do understand that location is an important consideration, for example, and we do get that cars are faster than bikes in many cases. The financial issues have also been featured in many threads. You might be interested in reading through some of the earlier threads to get up to speed.
There are solutions and work-arounds for all of the problems that you mention. Those few people with a basic interest in driving less will approach with an open mind to learn whether low car usage can work for them, or what they need to do to make it work. Some will decide to try it, others will decide that carfree living just won't work for them. The vast majority have already decided that it's a stupid idea, so they will move along without putting much thought into it. That's certainly no loss to me--I have no desire to "impress" my carfree or carlight lifestyle on uninterested people!
The reasons you think it's impractical are very elementary and have already been discussed on this forum many many times. Most of us do understand that location is an important consideration, for example, and we do get that cars are faster than bikes in many cases. The financial issues have also been featured in many threads. You might be interested in reading through some of the earlier threads to get up to speed.
There are solutions and work-arounds for all of the problems that you mention. Those few people with a basic interest in driving less will approach with an open mind to learn whether low car usage can work for them, or what they need to do to make it work. Some will decide to try it, others will decide that carfree living just won't work for them. The vast majority have already decided that it's a stupid idea, so they will move along without putting much thought into it. That's certainly no loss to me--I have no desire to "impress" my carfree or carlight lifestyle on uninterested people!
Living car light is a different story. This is possible for many people.
Edit:Impress: to take or persuade into service by forceful arguments: The neighbors were impressed into helping the family move.
02-12-14, 06:03 PM
#361
Sophomoric Member
I did present reasons why living car free is impractical for SOME people. Not everyone can live in a dense urban area. It's expensive, job limiting and mobility limiting should you lose your job. All of this is exacerbated as population (and jobs) go down. And unless you want to be poor forever, moving every few years isn't an option. Look at retirement and social security, it is based upon the idea that the elderly have a lower cost of living. Homeownership, not renting, will eventually remove the largest cost of home ownership. There is no work around solution. This is why car FREE isn't practical for most people.
Living car light is a different story. This is possible for many people.
Edit:Impress: to take or persuade into service by forceful arguments: The neighbors were impressed into helping the family move.
Living car light is a different story. This is possible for many people.
Edit:Impress: to take or persuade into service by forceful arguments: The neighbors were impressed into helping the family move.
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02-12-14, 06:36 PM
#362
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I'm not going to respond to your continuing personal insults. But I am going to remind you that they are inappropriate and in violation of forum guidelines. You may believe that these discussions are off topic, but clearly you have little support among other members or the staff. If you really do believe that this thread is off topic or stupid, the obvious solution is to ignore it, rather than continue with unprovoked personal attacks.
I responded accurately to answer your question and you return all blue in the face (electronically) with nonsense about personal insults, personal attacks, and inappropriate violations of guidelines. Just admit it you can't handle any answer that doesn't meet your approval.
But I will take some advice that I previously received and NEVER answer any of your questions or ever provide a response to you as you are now off my radar of people to take seriously.
02-12-14, 06:42 PM
#363
Prefers Cicero
I'm still hoping you'll respond thoughtfully on why this thread is personal for you - you suggested some of us want to deny you your cars - where does that come from? Is there some way in which people promoting a car-free or even environmentalist agenda represent a threat to your freedoms or lifestyle?
02-12-14, 06:47 PM
#364
Prefers Cicero
Because you're voluntarily participating in this thread where we're trying to understand backlash to car-free advocacy. If the backlash is because it contains an environmental message, then what is it about that environmental message that needs to be "shut down"? Is there something scary about it?
02-12-14, 06:50 PM
#365
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Given our extremely polarized society, there are a fair number of people for whom any mention of anything remotely related to caring for environment brands you as one of "them." Anyone who cares about the environment must be a liberal. And if you're a liberal, you must be a socialist.
Of course that's totally silly. There are people concerned with protecting the environment who are not on the left side of the political spectrum and environmentalism has nothing whatsoever to do with socialism or any other economic theory.
But as long as a significant part of the population continues to make these associations, it will remain a political issue and there will be backlash against things like advocating car free (or light) living that has little basis in reality. That it's baseless does not make it any less real.
02-12-14, 11:24 PM
#366
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You may not buy that it's a political issue, but it is. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is. And will remain so for the foreseeable future.
Given our extremely polarized society, there are a fair number of people for whom any mention of anything remotely related to caring for environment brands you as one of "them." Anyone who cares about the environment must be a liberal. And if you're a liberal, you must be a socialist.
Of course that's totally silly. There are people concerned with protecting the environment who are not on the left side of the political spectrum and environmentalism has nothing whatsoever to do with socialism or any other economic theory.
But as long as a significant part of the population continues to make these associations, it will remain a political issue and there will be backlash against things like advocating car free (or light) living that has little basis in reality. That it's baseless does not make it any less real.
Given our extremely polarized society, there are a fair number of people for whom any mention of anything remotely related to caring for environment brands you as one of "them." Anyone who cares about the environment must be a liberal. And if you're a liberal, you must be a socialist.
Of course that's totally silly. There are people concerned with protecting the environment who are not on the left side of the political spectrum and environmentalism has nothing whatsoever to do with socialism or any other economic theory.
But as long as a significant part of the population continues to make these associations, it will remain a political issue and there will be backlash against things like advocating car free (or light) living that has little basis in reality. That it's baseless does not make it any less real.
Concern about castastrophic global climate change and the environment are issues that have a lot to do with car-free living and they need to be discussed. It's as simple as that.
02-12-14, 11:57 PM
#367
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My apologies for misunderstanding the context. I wasn't even thinking of it terms of BF rules, I was just speaking about the segment of the general public that thinks any discussions on the environment are inherently political. And by so thinking, make it so in the public square.
But I don't think discussing the environmental benefits of biking in lieu of driving is out of place here.
But I don't think discussing the environmental benefits of biking in lieu of driving is out of place here.
02-13-14, 12:23 AM
#368
Full Member
my SUV gets 14mph so save all the fuel you want ....we will need it since NOW they say we are entering another ice age
02-13-14, 12:47 AM
#370
Sophomoric Member
In 15 pages, I don't think we ever mentioned a very real cause of backlash from motorists:
"You get in my way...you slow me down...I'm scared I will run into you...you're making congestion worse with your bike lanes."
"You get in my way...you slow me down...I'm scared I will run into you...you're making congestion worse with your bike lanes."
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02-13-14, 01:12 AM
#372
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Is that an actual quote from somewhere ... or something from your imagination?
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02-13-14, 02:36 AM
#373
Sophomoric Member
Actual quotes, heard many times and read in many places...opinion columns, blogs, city council meetings, conversations, and just yelled out car windows.
This negativity may not be terribly widespread, but it is out there.
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02-13-14, 03:14 AM
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02-13-14, 03:32 AM
#375
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