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  1. #126
    Senior Member Mobile 155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I don't care what these figures say. My own eyes see more cyclists today. Many of them are not white and most of them did not buy a bike from a member of NBDA. Most did not buy a new bike at all, but a used one. Most of these new cyclists are riding on the sidewalks or side streets, presumably because they perceive the main streets to be too dangerous. I doubt if very many were asked to participate in a survey about their cycling habits.
    Ok, you win. Evidence not needed or requested. Makes me feel better about the things I simply don't believe.
    Life is like riding a bicycle - in order to keep your balance, you must keep moving. ~Albert Einstein.

  2. #127
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
    Then you didn't follow any of my links.
    I followed your link. It was based on mailed/online surveys conducted for a sporting goods trade association. I studied statistics for three years on a graduate level and I believe this survey is not worth the paper it's written on. I am not aware of any reliable surveys that represent numbers of cyclists, let alone demographic subgroups.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  3. #128
    Senior Member Mobile 155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I followed your link. It was based on mailed/online surveys conducted for a sporting goods trade association. I studied statistics for three years uon a graduate level and I believe this survey is not worth the paper it's written on. I am not aware of any reliable surveys that represent numbers of cyclists, let alone demographic subgroups.
    No problem. You win.
    Life is like riding a bicycle - in order to keep your balance, you must keep moving. ~Albert Einstein.

  4. #129
    In the right lane gerv's Avatar
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    So it's been hinted here that some of her arguments are maybe a little "lightweight"... but I've got to say her 4th chapter "Superhighway to health" presents a great way to sell bicycle infrastructure.

    Basically, if you look at the roughly $1 million a mile cost of separated bike lanes, you might consider them an excessive frill that most countries can't really afford.

    But, says Blue, if you look at the costs from a wider viewpoint, a couple of facts make them seem a great deal.
    1. Any infrastructure that supports active transportation provides enormous cost savings in the health sector.
    2. Bicycle infrastructure reduces wear and tear on streets. Basically, if you are riding a bicycle instead of driving a car... you aren't out compacting the roadbed with your 2-ton car.

    I know these arguments have been expressed before (here even...) but a nice summary nonetheless.

  5. #130
    bragi bragi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoshnasi View Post
    One of the very first sentences from the interview is her denegrating a whole political group.



    I always kind of chuckle when people use "Think Tanks", "Big Business" or "Big Oil" etc. to de-humanize the opinions of people that may differ from your point.

    The reality is Conservative "Think Tanks" don't mind people privately creating a bike share program on their own dime. What they oppose is wasteful spending that never nets a return larger than the cost. Example, Citibike.

    Elly is firmly a believer in grabbing the public cash for her passions.



    How about she puts her butt on the line and creates her own bike share or bike kitchen.
    It's important to remember math. The interstate highway system, indeed virtually all of our car-centered infrastructure would never have been built, and would not still be here, were it not for a huge amount of public spending. I'm not a big fan of Elly Blue's book (her moral superiority is very Portlandia, and the writing is poor), but she makes a very good point that all transportation infrastructure is subsidized by taxpayers, and car infrastructure especially so. The national investment she calls for for bicycle infrastructure is far less than what the Big Dig in Boston cost, and the potential benefits are greater.
    Last edited by bragi; 02-04-14 at 09:52 PM.
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

  6. #131
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bragi View Post
    It's important to remember math. The interstate highway system, indeed virtually all of our car-centered infrastructure would never have been built, and would not still be here, were it not for a huge amount of public spending. I'm not a big fan of Elly Blue's book (her moral superiority is very Portlandia, and the writing is poor), but she makes a very good point that all transportation infrastructure is subsidized by taxpayers, and car infrastructure especially so. The national investment she calls for for bicycle infrastructure is far less than what the Big Dig in Boston cost, and the potential benefits are greater.
    Good point. It doesn't make much sense to compare a fully funded system (highways) with systems that get only leftover crumbs of funding (bikes and public transit). Bikes and all public transit together cost less than ten percent of total transportation dollars. More than 90 percent goes to highways.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  7. #132
    Senior Member GodsBassist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    Good point. It doesn't make much sense to compare a fully funded system (highways) with systems that get only leftover crumbs of funding (bikes and public transit). Bikes and all public transit together cost less than ten percent of total transportation dollars. More than 90 percent goes to highways.
    I think I remember reading that pedestrian and cycling gets a full %1...

  8. #133
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodsBassist View Post
    I think I remember reading that pedestrian and cycling gets a full %1...
    That depends on your location. I think federal contributions are about 1%, but don't quote me. Even advocates usually only ask for 5%, as in most Complete Street regulations. I said "less than 10%" so I wouldn't be accused of exaggerating for effect.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  9. #134
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Obviously since the "Government" is in need of more money, "ppl are talking about" new and increased taxes as well as registration fees and insurance for those phones and devices to raise even more revenue. Don't forget about those multitude of people using their computers, tablets and smart phones on wifi and Skype and other means to beat the land line taxman.

    "PPl are talking about" registration fees and insurance for all those gizmos that use government controlled air. Maybe even registration and insurance on every pair of shoes for use of the streets and sidewalk with a doubled fee for running shoes. Why not, if any far fetched taxman fantasy nightmare is good enough to fear increased bicyclists on the street?
    Let's see, in the UK they require a television license (per set it appears), not a far stretch so see it extended to things like bicycles...

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

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  10. #135
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    Has anyone read this book on a Kindle? I bought it and the formatting is so bad that it's nearly illegible. Instead of the dark black letters you get on other ebooks, these are a light grey that makes reading a real pain. I've complained to Amazon and Ms Blue.
    Gimme that car-free living!

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