mconlonx

1. Used car market is artificially inflated due to Kash for Klunkers program -- if kids can't afford used cars and don't get in the habit of driving, they won't be apt to buy a new car.
2. Job market for millennials is not all that. No jobs, no buying cars.
3. In my teen years, car ownership was also a social thing. Now, there's online social media. Why drive around with friends or do stuff outside the house, when all your friends are onscreen in your bedroom?

lasauge 

As a part of this generation (born in '87) and from talking to my peers, I think the main difference is that the younger generation sees autos primarily as tools, not so much as markers of social status like previous generations did, so there's less reason to buy a car unless it's a tool you have a real need for.
Technology probably has some influence on this, but I think what has really driven the change in perceptions is that car ownership and driving have become so universal that it's not necessarily a marker of high status or wealth anymore, but instead the opposite can sometimes hold true: not-driving is a sign of privilege in the case of urban-dwellers in trendy neighborhoods, or the person who rides their bicycle to go places on a beautiful sunny day.

Relevant to this forum, going car-free is still highly unusual where I live (which is rational, because the sprawling infrastructure and poor public transport make driving almost mandatory), even amongst the younger generation, but I do find that younger people are generally less surprised or astonished when they find out that I choose not to own a car even though I could afford one.

tandempower

Auto makers should focus on producing more small busses and large van/shuttle type vehicles. The main complain I see regarding busses is that they often run empty. Smaller busses/vans/shuttles would be more efficient in terms of fuel, maintenance, road wear, etc. Smartphone apps could be used to query a general trajectory for a certain time frame so that an intelligent server could actively plan efficient routes despite shifting demand. These vehicles would be like multi-passenger taxis with intelligent route planning.

The other challenge with this would be to organize the business side of it so owner-operators or small businesses could get insurance, maintenance for the vehicles, and schedule drivers as paid and/or unpaid users of the shuttles. People are desiring less and less these days to be saddled with all the burdens that come with personal car ownership so a form of transportation in between car-sharing and bus systems would probably generate new auto markets.

yote223

Cyclosaurus, I have a similar rig for the short in-town trips to the Mississippi but a lot of my trips are 200 miles north. Mine is a two piece unit that straps on bow and stern.

Dahon.Steve

My mistake and you're right, it was $5.00 dollars a day. I was thinking another way the auto makers can get millennials back into cars. How about this, buy a brand new Ford and we'll pay off your student loans! LOL! That will work!

Chuckie J.

I am a strange person in that I've been car free for nearly 12 years but my two favorite shows on TV are... Top Gear and Fast n' Loud. Yeah, it sounds crazy but these show get into the SPIRIT of driving a car which is not that different than the spirit of riding a bike.

I mention all this because the only way I'd ever own a car again is if the car felt really, really special. If it's just to get from A to B, well, I've got a bike for that. Actually I have 9 (quite nice) bikes for that. Really, really special cars cost a sh*t ton of money. I'd like to have one of those Teslas or a 5-Series BMW. Maybe an Aston Martin! That would be a thrill to drive regularly but I don't make money like that. It's ok.

Instead I have nice bicycles and they give me tremendous pleasure and joy. Bikes have taught me to appreciate great craftsmanship, design, and quality.

alhedges

It's true that Ford raised the daily wage to $5/day (in exchange for workers making certain changes to increase productivity, and it's also true that this meant that Ford workers could buy Ford cars.

But because things have changed so much since 1910, people don't understand why this was a big deal to people at the time.

Ford's success was in no way tied to the fact that his employees could buy his cars; there's no accounting trick you can do to support your manufacturing enterprise by paying your workers more in the hopes that they will buy your products. (He had 10,000 workers and made 250,000 cars/year).

The big deal with the $5/day pay scale was that working for Ford went from becoming a fairly low paying occupation to one that was solidly middle class; this was the first step that made working in a factory a good paying job, as has been since then. (It also dramatically reduced absenteeism and turnover. Within 5 years, each Ford could produced 20-25 cars per year per worker; other companies could only produced 5-6 cars per worker per year.

B. Carfree

Things have changed and then changed back again.



We grew up learning about the booming middle class in twentieth century America. We also saw a large increase in the use of cars by this middle class after WWII. The middle class is disappearing, the oligarchy, largely people who inherited their wealth, is reasserting itself and car use is waning. All just correlations, but interesting none the less.

Roody

Extremely interesting. Economic/social inequality and global climate change are absolutely the biggest problems facing the world. Young people I talk to greatly resent these two legacies that we dumped on them.

It's strange that both problems are tied up with cars (and being carfree) to such a great extent. I know many will dispute this, but it's very plain to me.

Roody

Several have mentioned Cash for Clunkers. I doubt if it has any continuing impact on used car prices. The program was five years ago. It didn't reduce the number of cars on the road--it just swapped very old cars for stockpiled new cars. Most of those clunkers would have been worn out and scrapped by now even if the program had never been enacted.

maxine

I think this is a huge factor, as it is becoming more common in more states. The economics/cost issues are also somewhat tangentially related to the delayed licensing thing . . . back in the day your kid took the free drivers' ed classes in high school, you schlepped him to the DMV for the test at whatever modest fee the state charged, and done. Now, in addition to the delayed licensing requirements, it seems that the old classic drivers' ed classes are becoming more of an exception than the rule, and more parents are having to fork over $$ for private driving schools. If they don't have the spare $$, the kids will have to pay it themselves, when/if they can.

Coluber42

I think another aspect may be that a higher percentage of Americans live in cities or near suburbs, and so a higher percentage of the Millennial generation has grown up in areas with other transportation possibilities. Teenagers in spread-out suburbs have to get their parents to drop them off any time they want to do anything; as soon as they're able to drive, they're suddenly able to go where they want, hang out with their friends, whenever they want. A drivers' license is sudden freedom and independence. Their parents want them to drive themselves to school as soon as possible.
I grew up in DC, and got myself around by bike and by public transportation. By the time I was 16, I had a fair amount of independence and I could get myself around just fine. Most of the places I went either for activities or to hang out with my friends were places with bad traffic and no parking. My downtown high school had a miniscule parking lot and students weren't allowed to drive to school because there was no place to park without leaving to feed a meter all day. So a drivers' license would not have given me much in terms of self-sufficiency, and there was obviously no social status in it; it would have made it easier for my parents to send me out on errands. So I didn't get one. I went to college in another city, and have lived in urban areas all my life, so I have still never gotten around to it. (I am 32)
As higher percentages of Americans live in cities generally, cars become more of a pain for more of them.

Also, don't dismiss the economic and student loan arguments. Regardless of what you think about student loans, the average debt burden upon graduation is around $25,000 if memory serves. That is not necessarily a crushing burden; federally subsidized student loans have very low interest rates, and the monthly payment is well under $200. But it may easily be a factor in not buying a car. Particularly since Millennials have spent most or all of their post-college working lives in a difficult economy.

I-Like-To-Bike

I doubt that there has been any upward trend for American families with children at home to be moving into cities or the near suburbs where the use of a car is unnecessary due to the other transportation possibilities; and probably has not been any such trend since at least the end of WW2. I am quite willing to be proved wrong.

alhedges

I just ran across this story noting that the percentage of adult children living with their parents is, at 30% for persons aged 18-34, higher than it's been since 1981. (In an article ostensibly about how millenials were renting instead of buying).

Young people still renting instead of buying - Local News - Indianapolis, IN | NBC News

This suggests, as has been pointed out above, that lack of money seems to be an important reason for not owing a car; it may also be the case that being able to borrow the parents' car when necessary means that the need to own your own car may be less important.

Roody

The End of the Suburbs | TIME.com

I-Like-To-Bike

Correct. However facts don't mean much to writers of articles consisting of gross generational stereotyping and conjured favored (while ignoring/downplaying the obvious) reasons/guesses for statistical hiccups (it is the economy, stupid) in long term trends, or the posters who reference such articles.

gerv 

When you factor in the lack of good jobs for those students graduating with $25,000 in debt... the picture becomes clearer. A monthly payment of $200 on $25,000... that's going to take a while.

Coluber42

Could cars be getting partially supplanted as a status symbol? People throughout history have made sacrifices or stretched what they could afford in order to buy one or two particular items of cultural value, such as a big TV, a car, a radio, a phonograph, a parlor piano or other instrument (the 19th century equivalent of movies on video were arrangements of popular symphonies, operas, etc, that you could play at home).
Maybe nowadays the thing you buy even though it's a big stretch isn't a car, it's a smartphone, laptop, iPad, etc. If you're in your 20's and just starting out in the far-out suburbs, it's bizarre, unheard of, unexpected, and difficult to meet people's expectations if you don't have a car. If you're in your 20's and starting out in the city, it's a similar story if you don't have a smartphone, a laptop, and an internet connection at home.

I-Like-To-Bike

You are correct, the car ownership as a status symbol only for a generation of young American adults, and being supplanted by electronic gadgets is a very big stretch; not that others, usually referencing someone else's speculation in the same article or two, haven't already put that theory into play.

FMB42

The points I'm about to make may have been said earlier; however here's my take:

1. Unlike several decades ago, there is a mini-market/mart on nearly every main street corner these days. If you live in a relatively safe neighborhood you can walk, bicycle, or skateboard, etc, to the corner mini-mart and buy just about anything you need.

2. You can buy just about anything on the Internet while often having it delivered for the same amount or less than what it'd cost you to drive somewhere for it. It's also much easier and far less time consuming to buy on-line than to go out and shop by car.

3. People of today can, and do, converse like they're "face to face" while using their eye pawds and now archaic cell phones. Younger people, unlike some of us older types, are completely comfortable with this.

4. Computer and hand-held device based games don't require players to drive, or be driven, to the ball field/court, skate rink or the bowling lanes, etc, etc. There just isn't the need to travel in order to be play action games like in the past.

5. Movies and TV entertainment is easily and cheaply viewed at home rather than in some crowed and overprice theater. Also, the number of channels is much greater than in the past. Big screen TVs and flat-screens have also taken some of the awe out of the silver screen.

Things change, and this is true with motor vehicle ownership and the dependence people once had on it. Airliners put an end to the ocean-liner era, and now I.T. is changing the motor-vehicle era.

Cubey

It depends on several things:

- Location
- Climate
- How good mass transit is

As discussed in another recently active thread here, the southern US is very unfriendly to cyclists. Large states with lots of open space between towns and less public mass transit almost requires you to own a car. Southwestern states such as New Mexico, Arizona and Neveda are too ghastly hot in summer for cycling.. as is most of the south which also has humidity thrown in with extreme heat.

My mom kept considering getting rid of her car due to the cost, but mass transit where she lives is somewhat lacking. She would have to walk about half or more to get to the nearest bus stop. She doesn't do well balancing on a bicycle anymore, so I suggested if she was serious about it to get an adult tricycle so she wouldn't have to worry about falling over.

Bikes need maintenance too, however. If not more than a car since they tend to flats easier and more frequently. They are cheaper to fix and more do-it-yourself than cars, but she's not at all mechanically inclined. It makes me wonder how she biked as much with me in a carrier seat and laundry on the handlebars as she did before she finally learned to drive in her 30's. Maybe she had neighbors fix her bike for her or something... which sounds about right actually since I and her neighbors have had to fix things for her.

Where she lives in the south, it gets over 100 in summer with humidity and freezing in winter with snow and/or ice at times. It's not healthy or practical for her to attempt to live without a car due to her health issues as well as the climate and relative unsafeness of cycling where she lives.

Also, my brother and his family/kids (her grandkids) live a good 25 miles away down a 65-70mph highway. In order to go see them, she needs a car.

I realize she's baby boomer, not millennial... but I am (i think? i never looked up the term exactly). Since getting my drivers license at 25, I can't stand not having a car. I am making due right now but I am starving for having a car really. I enjoy working on them though, so that's part of it too.

But also I grew up in the south where you almost need a car as mentioned. I am also very much about being on the open road too though, which is harder on a bike unless you get into good enough condition for touring. I'll do that on a small to medium sized scooter for cheap travel before I do it on a bicycle... but that's just me.

I-Like-To-Bike

You are certainly entitled to your "take" on reality.
Just a few more of my 2˘ on your take:

Do you seriously propose that an adult consider buying the family's groceries at a corner mini mart on a regular basis? And use a skateboard to bring home the groceries?

Do you really think that people dependent on the use of a motor vehicle for their own or their family's transportation needs can replace it with "IT"?

Roody

Do you really think that every post on this forum must cater to a traditional family unit of mom, dad, and 2.3 children living in suburban Iowa?

Many single people--especially young adults and retirees--appreciate the convenience of a corner store. And even among families, there are many inner city families who do most of their shopping at mini-marts because they lack decent public transit that will take them to better stores--which are usually located in the suburbs.

FMB42

I, in my late 20s, lived and worked within 2-3 blocks of: 2 mini-marts, 4 gas stations (2 w/min-marts), 2 liquor stores, 1 Saf*way grocery, 1 deli, 1 drugstore, 1 hardware store, 1 Italian restaurant, I Chinese restaurant, a donut shop and 3 fast food places. And there were many more nearby stores that I can't remember (this was in the mid '80s btw)

This situation allowed me to walk to work and, on the way home, stop and buy a paper grocery sack of various foods and drinks as needed. I often only drove my truck on the weekends and when it was raining.

I said " walk, bicycle, or skateboard, etc".

Meanwhile, I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with your post. But either way, you need to wake up to the reality that not everyone is as dependent on their motor vehicles as you seem to think they are. Maybe you are, but you're not everyone.

Roody

I thought your post made some good points. Shopping habits have changed, and it's helpful for carfree people to take advantage of nearby resources like convenience stores. Here in Michigan we call them "party stores" and who wouldn't want to buy a party? Sometimes they are very nice. For example, there's a little inner city store (about 12 feet wide) near me that specializes in Mexican food, including handmade tortillas made fresh every day. It's a great place to shop, even though it's just a little party store that most people would just drive past.

Theres a chain of party stores in my region that's famous for their donuts. The one nearest my house sells fresh produce--and it comes from local farms in the summer time. This came about because a local bicycle advocate pointed out that this part of town is a "food dessert" where many people buy their groceries from this little store. She convinced the corporation that providing fresh produce would be good for community health and arranged local suppliers, so now you can pick up some kale to go with your donuts.

You didn't mention dollar stores in your post. They're quite common in both suburban and inner city locations, and offer grocery items at a good price. They are giving Walmart some good competition because they are often located in densely populated areas, convenient for both drivers and carfree people.