Machka 

Interesting how this forum seems to think that negativity, telling people that they have failed, and public shaming are the way to go ... and the forum right below this one is all about encouragement.

(Actually even the Road forum is more encouraging than this forum.)

RPK79

+1

I would be ashamed to tell people I was car free (if I was car free), because they would probably associate me with folks like this.

Machka 

See to me, gerv's example was of a woman who set out a goal to be car-free for 5 days. She was car-free for 4 days, and life happened on the 5th day. That's no failure ... that's not even just a pass ... 80% is a huge success. Passed with flying colours. "Failure" and "Backsliding" are words which should never have been used to describe her resounding success.

Roody

Thanks for the explanation. That's exactly what I meant about failure, and I said it clearly and carefully. I was comparing failur to achieve a carfree goal to failure to achieve an exercise goal. You shouldn't feel too bad about the failure, but try to learn from it and get back on track. Or rather, get on a new track that doesn't lead to Failureville.

This is true on a meta level also. I think that bike to work efforts have failed at some of their goals. They haven't, in my observations, been very effective in recent years at persuading new people to actually start biking to work. That doesn't mean the bike to work organizers are personal failures. Far from it. They are wonderful people who go beyond the call of duty to solve the problem of car over-use. But maybe it is time for them (us) to pause and reflect. They have, IMO, reached a "plateau" that would call for a new plan of action. If I'm not mistaken, that's one reason that gerv started this thread in the first place.

Machka 

Perhaps it is all the years of teacher training I've had, or maybe it is the Canadian/Australian culture, or both, but we try to avoid using the word "failure" to describe someone's actions. The word "failure" is a very negative term. Instead, we focus on the successes and encourage ongoing success.

The lady in question did not fail to achieve a car-free goal, she had a great success at accomplishing that goal. 80% is great! In a classroom situation, that would likely put her in the top 10 students in the class. No failure in that!

And if a person exercised twice last week ... wonderful! They successfully exercised twice. That may be more than they did the week before. And perhaps next week they might exercise three times ... even more success. But even if they just exercised twice the next week, that's good too. No failure there at all.


Back to the 80% ... if gerv's 5-day plan here were to get 80% of Americans enthused enough to try it, that would be a monumental success. If 80% of them successfully made it through the 5 days, that would be an overwhelming success. There is absolutely no failure in 80% success.


B.Carfree brought up the example of anti-smoking ads. I don't know what sort of ads are used in California. We didn't watch much TV when we were there, and I don't remember any anti-smoking ads at all. But here in Australia, one of the most effective ads has been one which has been running for quite a few years. There's a guy who has quit smoking talking and he says something along the lines of, "The first time I quit smoking, I lasted for 2 days until a friend offered me a cigarette. The second time I quit smoking, I lasted 6 weeks until my girlfriend decided I was too grouchy and gave me a cigarette. The third time I quit smoking, I just stopped. It wasn't quite that easy but each time I quit gave me the tools to be able to do better the next time."

No mention of failure, nothing negative, all positive and encouraging. And just during the time that ad (and similar ones) has been run, the percentage of Australian smokers has dropped by 3%.

Again, maybe a cultural thing, but the Canadian/Australian culture I'm familiar with doesn't react well to a negative/shaming approach. But we do react well to a positive, encouraging, supportive approach.

[HR][/HR]

Now regarding the idea of encouraging people toward a car-free or car-light lifestyle ... encouraging success ...
A number of years ago a recommendation was suggested that people need to exercise moderately for 90 minutes a day or all sorts of bad things would befall them. That did not go over well at all, and the reaction many people had was that if they needed 90 minutes of exercise a day, they might as well not do anything at all ... there was no point trying. So the people who make these recommendations backed off and suggested that 30 minutes a day would be OK. And then very slowly and subtly they started suggesting that it would be a good idea to get up and walk around for a few minutes once an hour. And it might be a good idea to get away from your desk and go for a short walk at lunch to get some fresh air and sunshine. And we might consider getting out in the yard after work and playing ball or tag with the kids for a little while. And it's not a bad idea to take the stairs now and then ...

And all of a sudden what they're suggesting is ... 90 minutes of exercise a day. But they're not saying that because 90 minutes of exercise a day is too overwhelming. But if you suggest that a person do a few minutes of exercise here and there, before they know it, they're successfully doing 90 minutes of exercise.

Suggesting that someone should get rid of their car and be car-free is overwhelming for most. Even suggesting that a person park the car and be car-free for 5 days can be overwhelming. And that's why I'd rather see the slow and subtle approach.

Encourage people to think about their transportation options for their next trip. Could they take the bus? What might be the advantages in that ... well, for one thing, they wouldn't have to look for parking. Could they cycle or walk? What would be the advantages in that ... they'd get some exercise, fresh air, and sunshine. Maybe taking the bus, cycling or walking would get them to their destination quicker than going by car and having to hunt for parking. Maybe it would save them some money (as an aside, one lady I know walks a few blocks to a bus stop a little bit closer the CBD, rather than using the bus stop close to home ... she gets some exercise, and the bus stop a little bit closer to the CBD is in a better zone so she saves money). And provide people with tools and information to make the car-free/car-light choices.

IMO, if you start encouraging people to consider healthier transportation options one trip at a time, that sort of program has a better chance at long-term success ... and there are no feelings of negativity or failure. Each time a person says to themselves, "I think I'll walk to work today" or "I think I'll take the bus across town" ... it's a success.

Machka 

This, for example ... if it exists ... might be one of the tools which could be created and provided to people to help them make the choice to ride their bicycle. If they know that there will be secure parking (or at least parking of some kind) available where they're going it would take some of the uncertainty out of the choice.

https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cy...bsite-app.html

gerv 

Machka... I don't think any specific day of the week or month of the year should be specified.

Think of this as a personal challenge. Add it to the list of things a cyclist should consider. For example, many cyclists like to do a century ride. It's almost a rite of passage for some. But the time and route are your own... when you can fit it in.

We talked about failure. I think my friend does see that she hasn't yet succeeded at the challenge and is thinking of doing it at another time. Just as make 95 miles of a century isn't success, so her record isn't a success. But please remember that these types of failure should only motivate you to do more. My friends sees the 5 Day Challenge now as no cake-walk and I think she'll be better prepared for the next round.

Really.. the more I think about this, the more I believe the 5 Day Challenge should be right up their with century rides and those gravel ordeals that are so popular here in the MidWest. And maybe comparable some of those rando rides you do.

gerv 

But I still haven't heard from anyone on *how* we would package this challenge.

Would a Facebook page built to allow bragging rights work? #Machka I haven't found such a page, but there are sites devoted to Car Free topics.

Would it be better alongside tools like Bike Month or Bike to Work?

Is this something a shrewd cycling advocate could raise federal dollars with?

Zedoo

My reason for being carlight is the cost of driving: insurance, fuel, repairs, and registration. Those were negatives. Now I have more money to spend on other stuff. That's a positive. Both can be easily put in any promotion, if someone really wants to throw more money and time at that. Carfree/lightness is inevitable, but trying to push that along looks like a fool's game. If someone I know is ready to be carlight, then I might have some useful info/advice/spare bike.

Machka 

Yes, something like this would be better produced in coordination with existing programs. And if you're going after funding, it is better if you're part of an existing program/organisation. I don't know how grant funding works in the US, but I have had some dealing with grant funding in Australia, and it is better if you're a recognised organisation and not just someone with your hand out.

Have you been involved in organising a Bike Week or other similar events? If not, I'd suggest getting involved in the next one in your area. Offer to be part of the planning process. That will give you some ideas of what works and what doesn't, and how much work is involved.


You might also look at challenges like the 30 Days challenge:
Home | 30 Days of Biking
I think this challenge started really small within a particular community, but then a few people from other parts of the world have joined in. Check out their Facebook page and see how they have it set up. I haven't looked at it this year (I did a couple years ago), but it seems to me they welcome people to join in and chat about their progress throughout the month.

Or the Find Thirty campaign:
Find Thirty

Or the Walk to Work challenge ... specifically look at their approach listed under "It's Easy":
Home Page: Walk to Work Day
They've also got apps (I've never used an app so I don't know if they're any good) and maps and articles.

We just had Bike Week here in Tasmania. Lots of different events, but I really don't know what the participation level was. I can tell you that the advertising was minimal. In my office, there was one poster on the door advertising the movies, but it was half torn down within the first couple days what with the construction going on in this building. I don't recall seeing anything about it on TV. And even on our State events page, information about it was pretty light on.
https://www.tasbikeweek.net.au/

Nevertheless a '5 Days Car-Free' thing could be one of the events during a Bike Week. You could start small with it, just in your own community and see how it goes.




It must be some sort of cultural difference to regard things as either a success or a failure.

Your friend hasn't done 5 days without a car yet and wants to try again. But she hasn't failed at anything ... she successfully completed 4 days the first time she tried, and she has successfully gathered more tools and information to be able to complete her challenge. It's all a success ... no failure involved.

Same with doing 95 miles ... that's certainly no failure. Cycling 95 miles is very good accomplishment and puts a person in a strong position to do a century if that's what the person wants to do next.

It's all building blocks. You do something and you reach a certain level of success ... you build the skills, you develop the tools, you gather the information ... you do that thing again, and you reach the next level of success.

Back to the century example, very few people can hop on a bicycle and ride a century. They're not failures, they just don't have the skills to ride the century yet. So they go out and ride 30 miles one week. Success! The next week they ride 40 miles. Another success! The next week they ride 50 miles. More success! But maybe they struggled with 50 miles a bit so they decide to do that distance again. Success! And up to 60 miles ... and so on, and before you know it, the person can ride a century. But at no point along the way did the person fail.

And it is the same with this car-free business. You opt to do one trip by walking or cycling. Maybe it was an excellent experience and you decide to do it again, maybe even go further. But one day you struggle with it for one reason or another, so you review what happened and try again. It's not a failure, it's just a part of the learning and growing process.

To me, calling something or someone a failure just seems so defeating and denigrating, it's such a sad and depressing term ... completely destroys any motivation to do anything.



(And no, "5 days without a car" doesn't have the same challenge factor as a randonneuring event. Go do a Super Randonneur series and you'll see what I mean. I had an angiogram in December and was told not to go anywhere or do anything for 5 days after ... I went 5 days without a car then, without exerting any energy at all. )

Machka 

Incidentally, this is the specific thread I was referring to in the other forum:
https://www.bikeforums.net/long-dista...st-brevet.html

And this statement within that post stood out to me:

"If you learned something from the ride, then the ride was a success, even though you had to DNF."

gerv 

Wow... this is a wonderful site. I'm going to post this on my bike co-op's FB page. A lot of people would like this one. Thanks for digging it up.


Yes.. we have a Bike Month here and it's full of events and programs. I was thinking exactly of this when I first thought of the Challenge. Although in fact, you could do the 5 Days without a Car Challenge just about anytime.

Put this way, I'm going to concede the point. All the things I think of as "failures" are really building blocks. The way you frame it, yes.. it was a success... she has gathered some useful experience.

Machka 

Are you familiar with these ...

World Carfree Network
World Carfree Network

World Carfree Day
World Carfree Network - World Carfree Day (WCD)

350htrr

I have come to regard me not driving "for fun" a win, working towards the goal of not driving my car/truck everywhere, and when I ride my bike instead of driving... I feel better... The wife takes here bike to work every day on bike to work week and says it's actually a very rewarding sense of accomplishment... 5 days without a car event/challenge, would/could be the next thing added to ride the bike to work week... Seeing that I don't leave the house for work...

bluebirdy

When I cycled to work, I often took a bowl of soup for lunch! when I made the soup I put enough gelatine in the saucepan and poured it into bowls then let them set in the fridge!
I'd pull a bowl out of the fridge and put it straight into the top of my Lunch bag then at lunchtime I would pull it out very very carefully and theatrically put it into the microwave to heat it up! this would turn it back to liquid.
Not one person at work ever figured out how I could get a bowl of soup to work on a bike without spilling it!
It would work with a casserole too!

gerv 

Kudos for solving the puzzle!

A while back I brought in some salt cod and potatoes for food day at the bike co-op. Instead of a large dish, I cooked the dish the night before. Let it cool.

Next day I put everything in large plastic bags and then re-heated each plate in a microwave at the shop.

Everything I needed to feed 15 people fit in one pannier. Except for the wine and glasses. Which went in the other pannier.

dracmas

What got me to get a bike Friday was pure financial means. Like how much I spend to keep my car on the road month to month, gas, maintinance, and eventual repairs when it breaks down. Could be a method to get people to bike that live 10 miles or less from work. Think from their standpoint. Why does it benefit them, as also allot of people think with their wallet.

dynodonn 

Years ago, going 5 days without driving a car would have been difficult, now I have to schedule myself on a regular basis to drive the car that I have, since letting it sit for long periods of time is not good for it.

Artkansas 

Instead, perhaps we should look at why failure has been demonized. Failure is a part of life. It teaches you to examine yourself and your actions, analyze what has gone wrong and to change them. It teaches you to dig into the reserves of your character to rise up and get back into the game. Failure is a very strong and positive term. Failure-shaming is negative.

gerv 

Also...Failure sharing -- where you get to learn from others' mistake -- is a valuable tool.