cooker

Well, this is a bicycling website, so you expect to find cyclists. But it's not a leisure vs work website.

El Cid

Fine, you can be the token old guy. But when you die, you're going in the compost pile.

Rowan

At least, your version of a contemporary suburb. I suspect that many of the suburbs we have here in Australia are fundamentally different in concept and design in most cases those in the places in the US you have lived. I think I have told you before about Canberra, Australia's national capital, that was designed with suburbs (or villages as you want to call them) radiating out from the city centre, which buffer zones of bushland in between, and linked by roads and dedicated bike paths.

One of the things people often forget in trying to impose their "one-size-fits-all" dreams is that terrain plays a huge role in how a city or town is organised. If you start with a flat area of ground, you can do all the gridding you like, but if you have a mountain on one side, and a river on the other about five miles away, and lots of hills in between, a grid will form only a small part of the design (as is the case with Hobart).

Roody

I'm not trying to impose anything. It's just a silly dream. I think I will put some hills in it, and lush green forests and parkland. And DEFINITELY a river. A river runs through all my dreams--one that freezes over in the winter. I love canoeing and ice biking.

Rowan

The dream bit wasn't aimed at you, oddly.

The one place in North America to seems to be my "dream" city is where Machka's folk live, Sardis/Chilliwack, on the eastern outskirts of Vancouver, BC. Everything that is needed is within walking or cycling distance, with mountains in the near distance, a river, a large lake reasonably close by, snow in winter, a temperate summer climate, bucolic surroundings, and really nice bike riding with a fair degree of respect from motorists, and retail outlets including the "dreaded" Walmart. I could see myself living there without any trouble provided the employment opportunities were right.

Roody

I love Vancouver. It seems less sprawled than the other big cities on the Pacific coast of North America, for one thing. Also the people have an amazing respect for the history and geography of their region. And I don't even have to mention the beauty and the climate.

Actually, if I could put my dream city anywhere I wanted, it might be near there, on Vancouver Island. I would make it a small city, so it wouldn't mess up the island too much. And of course there would be no cars, like Mackinac Island, but I would allow motorized transit.

Machka 

This particular photo shows the two suburbs (aka "villages") I mentioned above ... the one we live in and the more well-stocked adjacent one. It also shows numerous other suburbs (aka "villages") including the CBD.

As you can see, some of the villages/suburbs are separated by green areas. And there are some higher speed main roads connecting it all.

There are also hills, lush green forest, parkland, and a river. But the river doesn't freeze.

Roody

It's certainly beautiful and I'm glad you're happy there.

But you lost me at "high speed main roads". That will never be a part of my dream!

I will have high speed transit, and housing development that's dense enough for everybody to live within 10 minutes walking distance of the village's single transit station. Bike trails and foot paths will cut through the green spaces between villages.

(And yes, Dave Cutter, there will be some kind of provision for elderly/handicapped people to get around. There will be NO discrimination in my dream world!)

Machka 

High speed = 60-80 km/h


In the place I've shown you above, there is bus transportation, with stops along the way up to a point, then it is "high speed" for a while until it start dropping off. I'm within a 5 min walk of a stop.

There are also bike trails and foot paths everywhere.

A stone's throw from where we live ... this is the route I walk to the medical centre, and where the shopping centre, post office, bakery, bookstore, chemist, etc. etc. etc. are located. And of course we've cycled it several times.

cooker

There are a lot of people interested in green living on the adjacent smaller "gulf islands", especially Saltspring Island, although it is more rural green than urban green.
A couple of car-free BFers moved to one of the gulf islands from Toronto a few years back - let me think...spinninwheels and crazybikerchick, but not to Saltspring, I think.

cooker

That picture made my legs ache. Did you bike up there?


Is that some kind of mine or quarry in the lower left?

Machka 

No, we didn't cycle up there. Not yet. I'm not a good climber. But I think Rowan has in the past, and we are talking about building up to it. The day we went up, there were a lot of cyclists making the climb ... I was actually quite surprised. Some looked like they made the climb every weekend, they were handling it so easily.


And ... ummm ... I'm not sure. There is a park over there and a MTB park, I think. Rowan would probably know. But I don't think I've been over there yet.



BTW ... if you're interested, if you click the photo, you'll see lots more taken from the top of Mt Wellington.

contango 

Assuming you can find the kind of job that lets you work fewer hours. If you've got the kind of job where it's 40 hours per week and the choice is take it or leave it then cycling would be seen by many to be a good way of having less leisure time because the commute takes twice as long.

Which is odd, because of those people at least some will drive home from work and then go to the gym to walk on a treadmill and ride on a stationary bike. It's like the people who drive to the gym a mile away, complain they can't park, spend half an hour walking on a treadmill and then drive home. If they just walked to the gym and back home they'd get the same exercise without having to pay for the gym membership. If you're going to cycle for exercise you might as well get some exercise during your commute, assuming the journey from home to work is sensibly commutable. London in the rush hour is cycleable but it's not a lot of fun.

contango 

I rather like the idea of using studded tyres to ride along a frozen river. It would have to be frozen pretty solid to support my fat ass riding on it, but taking that for granted I like the idea.

cooker

Thanks - I often click on and admire your photos.

Roody

It is amazing fun.

El Cid

The Ottawa River freezes up every year. I've always wanted to skate on it, and maybe I'll take my bike out there too.

tandempower

Interesting article, though it really only addresses existing suburbs vs. denser urban areas. I think there are some fundamental reasons why suburban development attracts investors/developers and home buyers that have to do with the huge price differential between undeveloped land and the same land once it has been developed into parcels. Buyers can look at a parcel and say, "look how much square footage and lawn I'm getting for my money" and then they can look at all the cookie-cutter mirror images of the same property around them with new cars in the driveways and say, "if all these other people are investing in this neighborhood, my investment is bound to appreciate as well." Of course, this is what happens while the bubble is forming. Once enough comparable suburbs are sprouting up to seduce people out of one development and into another, the ones being vacated begin losing value and people get stuck with underwater mortgages.

I also think urban density has a catch to it in terms of price-fluctuations, which is that if these areas grow very expensive, people begin to venture into the suburbs for better bargains; but if they begin depreciating, people flee to the suburbs to escape urban blight. What is really needed are cities with car-free suburbs as well as urban areas but that's only going to be possible if existing suburbs develop patterns of work and transportation that aren't car-dependent, which is possible but seems unlikely considering that many suburbanites seem to be less interested in quality of life than going through the motions of getting to and from whatever job that pays well and back to whatever house seems to be the best investment for the long term. Economic desperation blurs the realization that prosperity includes quality of life, not just property-value appreciation and pay increases.

tandempower

Interesting article, though it really only addresses existing suburbs vs. denser urban areas. I think there are some fundamental reasons why suburban development attracts investors/developers and home buyers that have to do with the huge price differential between undeveloped land and the same land once it has been developed into parcels. Buyers can look at a parcel and say, "look how much square footage and lawn I'm getting for my money" and then they can look at all the cookie-cutter mirror images of the same property around them with new cars in the driveways and say, "if all these other people are investing in this neighborhood, my investment is bound to appreciate as well." Of course, this is what happens while the bubble is forming. Once enough comparable suburbs are sprouting up to seduce people out of one development and into another, the ones being vacated begin losing value and people get stuck with underwater mortgages.

I also think urban density has a catch to it in terms of price-fluctuations, which is that if these areas grow very expensive, people begin to venture into the suburbs for better bargains; but if they begin depreciating, people flee to the suburbs to escape urban blight. What is really needed are cities with car-free suburbs as well as urban areas but that's only going to be possible if existing suburbs develop patterns of work and transportation that aren't car-dependent, which is possible but seems unlikely considering that many suburbanites seem to be less interested in quality of life than going through the motions of getting to and from whatever job that pays well and back to whatever house seems to be the best investment for the long term. Economic desperation blurs the realization that prosperity includes quality of life, not just property-value appreciation and pay increases.