Protected bike lanes and Car Free Living
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Protected bike lanes and Car Free Living
God, I can't tell you how much I love protected bike lanes! They've converted the city I live in into one of the most cyclist-friendly in Europe. I concur with this new study. Protected bike lanes make cycling so much safer that the whole idea of commuting by bike becomes appealing to thousands of people and makes living car-free so much easier.
I say: Up with protected bike lanes! Down with "vehicular cycling"! What say ye about how protected bike lanes can encourage the car-free lifestyle?
“Protected bike lanes safer, better,” says science. “Duh,” says rest of us.
I say: Up with protected bike lanes! Down with "vehicular cycling"! What say ye about how protected bike lanes can encourage the car-free lifestyle?
“Protected bike lanes safer, better,” says science. “Duh,” says rest of us.
Last edited by Ekdog; 06-15-14 at 09:11 PM. Reason: Added a few words to make it clear that the focus here should be protected bike lanes and living car-free.
#2
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I wouldn't say down with vehicular cycling, because sometimes it's the best way to get where you want to go. But I do say up with good bike lanes!
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However, protected lanes and trails can't cover the whole city... at least no city I've ever lived in. So VC isn't a lost art by any means.
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God, I can't tell you how much I love protected bike lanes! They've converted the city I live in into one of the most cyclist-friendly in Europe. I concur with this new study. Protected bike lanes make cycling so much safer that the whole idea of commuting by bike becomes appealing to thousands of people.
Up with protected bike lanes! Down with "vehicular cycling"!
“Protected bike lanes safer, better,” says science. “Duh,” says rest of us.
Up with protected bike lanes! Down with "vehicular cycling"!
“Protected bike lanes safer, better,” says science. “Duh,” says rest of us.
#6
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I do love well-designed bike lanes, but they're not a good starting point in North America. My city, Seattle, is gradually getting decent bike infrastructure, which I'm very happy about, and even non-bicyclists have eventually come to accept it, if for no other reason that it mitigates traffic congestion (and get cyclists out of their way). However, the bike infrastructure didn't come first; the bicyclists did. Only when the number of bicyclists in Seattle reached a number where they had some political influence, and they were noticeable in traffic, did anyone give a rat's *** about real bicycle infrastructure. And we're talking Seattle here, a town that actually has a Socialist on its city council. In most parts of this very car-centric continent, if you suddenly drop a lot of bike infrastructure on a public that doesn't think it needs it, because no one rides bikes, you're going to get a lot of indifference/annoyance from the vast majority, and some very vicious push-back from those few angry people who listen to talk radio.
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#7
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Having pretty good infrastructure gets people into the habit of transporting themselves by bike. We have a pretty good trail system here which acts like a protected lane.
However, protected lanes and trails can't cover the whole city... at least no city I've ever lived in. So VC isn't a lost art by any means.
However, protected lanes and trails can't cover the whole city... at least no city I've ever lived in. So VC isn't a lost art by any means.
Recently, I've started thinking that complete streets might be a better way to go than bike lanes or even separated facilities. Does anybody have any thoughts on that?
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Why not start a thread on that ... and tell us what "complete streets" are in that thread.
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I do love well-designed bike lanes, but they're not a good starting point in North America. My city, Seattle, is gradually getting decent bike infrastructure, which I'm very happy about, and even non-bicyclists have eventually come to accept it, if for no other reason that it mitigates traffic congestion (and get cyclists out of their way). However, the bike infrastructure didn't come first; the bicyclists did. Only when the number of bicyclists in Seattle reached a number where they had some political influence, and they were noticeable in traffic, did anyone give a rat's *** about real bicycle infrastructure. And we're talking Seattle here, a town that actually has a Socialist on its city council. In most parts of this very car-centric continent, if you suddenly drop a lot of bike infrastructure on a public that doesn't think it needs it, because no one rides bikes, you're going to get a lot of indifference/annoyance from the vast majority, and some very vicious push-back from those few angry people who listen to talk radio.
Last edited by Ekdog; 06-05-14 at 01:59 AM.
#10
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Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Complete Streets is a transportation policy and design approach that requires streets to be planned, designed, operated, and maintained to enable safe, convenient and comfortable travel and access for users of all ages and abilities regardless of their mode of transportation. Complete Streets allow for safe travel by those walking, bicycling, driving automobiles, riding public transportation, or delivering goods.[1]
The term is often used by transportation advocates, urban planners, traffic and highway engineers, public health practitioners, and community members in the United States.
The term is often used by transportation advocates, urban planners, traffic and highway engineers, public health practitioners, and community members in the United States.
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Last edited by Roody; 06-05-14 at 02:24 AM.
#11
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Do these bike lanes go past your front door? Do they go everywhere you need or wish to go?
Probably not.
And that becomes a major issue when it comes to people riding their bicycles away from bike lanes. The motorists feel they have a right to tell you to ride on bike lanes or paths, even though they don't exist in that particular place. And when a rider has to ride in traffic where there are no bike lanes, they show their lack of skill and confidence.
Probably not.
And that becomes a major issue when it comes to people riding their bicycles away from bike lanes. The motorists feel they have a right to tell you to ride on bike lanes or paths, even though they don't exist in that particular place. And when a rider has to ride in traffic where there are no bike lanes, they show their lack of skill and confidence.
#12
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Anyway, I think that within a complete streets paradigm, "well designed" bike lanes would be safe, comfortable and convenient--not only for cyclists, but for all street users. I think this concept of completeness would lessen the backlash from motorists and pedestrians that a couple people mentioned earlier in this thread.
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Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't mind talking about it here, if anybody wants to, since bike lanes are sometimes a component of complete streets. And I'm pretty sure most people know what it is, since we've had several threads on the topic.
Complete streets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Complete streets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But it sounds just the opposite of the OP's topic in this thread.
Again ... probably a good idea to talk about it in it's own thread rather than hijacking this thread.
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#14
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Do these bike lanes go past your front door? Do they go everywhere you need or wish to go?
Probably not.
And that becomes a major issue when it comes to people riding their bicycles away from bike lanes. The motorists feel they have a right to tell you to ride on bike lanes or paths, even though they don't exist in that particular place. And when a rider has to ride in traffic where there are no bike lanes, they show their lack of skill and confidence.
Probably not.
And that becomes a major issue when it comes to people riding their bicycles away from bike lanes. The motorists feel they have a right to tell you to ride on bike lanes or paths, even though they don't exist in that particular place. And when a rider has to ride in traffic where there are no bike lanes, they show their lack of skill and confidence.
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#15
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You're certainly welcome to start such a thread if that's your interest. I don't care to at this time. But I surely am trying to get back to the topic of this thread....
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OP here. I think a comparison of protected bike lanes and complete streets fits nicely into this thread.
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This is often mentioned. Do you know of any specific occasions when cyclists were told they must ride in bike lanes, where there wasn't a bike lane? I'm just wondering if this is a known problem, or something people are concerned could happen. I know that in my state, cyclists can ride on any public highway except for freeways.
When there's a segregated bicycle path, within sight of the road, people who drive by feel it is their duty to yell out the window and tell you to use the path.
Sure, cyclists can ride on the highways, but if that bicycle path exists, motorists get quite upset that their tax dollars went toward building that path, and you're not using it.
I've also worked in the Infrastructure Department of a local government who was one of three local governments who were involved in an extensive bicycle path project, one of the longest in Victoria.
One of the comments that came up in conversation with my coworkers, in community consultations, in letters we received, and in other chat with members of the community was that this path would get the cyclists off the highways .... and they were quite happy about that idea.
Unfortunately, they didn't pave the path, they even ran out of chert, so that part of the path was just a sandy sort of fine gravel. Not good for road cycling, so we continued to ride on the highways much of the time ... sometimes to the frustration and concern of the motorists around.
And if you've ever cycled in Belgium ... don't dare to venture off the bicycle path/lane, even if the bicycle path/lane is full of debris and really horrible to ride on. You'll be honked at and hollered at until you're back onto the path/lane again.
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Last edited by Machka; 06-05-14 at 03:38 AM.
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...would be more appropriate in Advocacy & Safety, no?
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#20
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This is often mentioned. Do you know of any specific occasions when cyclists were told they must ride in bike lanes, where there wasn't a bike lane? I'm just wondering if this is a known problem, or something people are concerned could happen. I know that in my state, cyclists can ride on any public highway except for freeways.
Drivers know this, and it is not unusual for talkback callers on radio to tell cyclists that they shouldn't be on the road at all unless they are in a bike lane or MUP.
And that doesn't even start with the anti-cyclist sentiment that has been very evident here in Hobart because of introduction of bike lanes along a main traffic route into the city.
The legal side raises some issues in regard to a rider who wants to turn off the road to a driveway or another street.
#21
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Yes. I've been told that many times.
When there's a segregated bicycle path, within sight of the road, people who drive by feel it is their duty to yell out the window and tell you to use the path.
Sure, cyclists can ride on the highways, but if that bicycle path exists, motorists get quite upset that their tax dollars went toward building that path, and you're not using it.
I've also worked in the Infrastructure Department of a local government who was one of three local governments who were involved in an extensive bicycle path project, one of the longest in Victoria.
One of the comments that came up in conversation with my coworkers, in community consultations, in letters we received, and in other chat with members of the community was that this path would get the cyclists off the highways .... and they were quite happy about that idea.
Unfortunately, they didn't pave the path, they even ran out of chert, so that part of the path was just a sandy sort of fine gravel. Not good for road cycling, so we continued to ride on the highways much of the time ... sometimes to the frustration and concern of the motorists around.
And if you've ever cycled in Belgium ... don't dare to venture off the bicycle path/lane, even if the bicycle path/lane is full of debris and really horrible to ride on. You'll be honked at and hollered at until you're back onto the path/lane again.
When there's a segregated bicycle path, within sight of the road, people who drive by feel it is their duty to yell out the window and tell you to use the path.
Sure, cyclists can ride on the highways, but if that bicycle path exists, motorists get quite upset that their tax dollars went toward building that path, and you're not using it.
I've also worked in the Infrastructure Department of a local government who was one of three local governments who were involved in an extensive bicycle path project, one of the longest in Victoria.
One of the comments that came up in conversation with my coworkers, in community consultations, in letters we received, and in other chat with members of the community was that this path would get the cyclists off the highways .... and they were quite happy about that idea.
Unfortunately, they didn't pave the path, they even ran out of chert, so that part of the path was just a sandy sort of fine gravel. Not good for road cycling, so we continued to ride on the highways much of the time ... sometimes to the frustration and concern of the motorists around.
And if you've ever cycled in Belgium ... don't dare to venture off the bicycle path/lane, even if the bicycle path/lane is full of debris and really horrible to ride on. You'll be honked at and hollered at until you're back onto the path/lane again.
#22
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The use of infrastructure in "complete streets" is called traffic calming in most traffic engineering circles.
I have dealt with this before here, but the introduction of bike lanes in many places has been to reduce car speeds and provide some semblance of "calming", not to provide a safe corridor for cyclists. Usually, the bike lanes narrow the travel lane for cars, and the motorists are supposed to reduce their speeds to negotiate the narrower space.
There are issues with segregated bike lanes, such as those delineated with some hard protruding piece of furniture at regular spacings along the painted line.
While they discourage drivers from encroaching on the bike lane or more likely shared bus/bike lane, they are a real and present danger for cyclists to hit and come down on the roadway. This was my immediate reaction when I encountered this road furniture for the first time in Paris.
We also have something similar now in Hobart, and frankly, I prefer to ride on the adjacent roadway that have to deal with the posts, the intermittent kerbing, and the path uses that may at any time include cyclists, roller bladers, dog walkers, joggers and walkers. Apart from all those factors, the road surface actually is better to ride on.
My personal opinion is that the money spent on installing these sorts of facilities would be far better spent creating and running training programs for cyclists to ride their bikes properly, and to promote co-existence of motorists and cyclists in shared lanes.
I have dealt with this before here, but the introduction of bike lanes in many places has been to reduce car speeds and provide some semblance of "calming", not to provide a safe corridor for cyclists. Usually, the bike lanes narrow the travel lane for cars, and the motorists are supposed to reduce their speeds to negotiate the narrower space.
There are issues with segregated bike lanes, such as those delineated with some hard protruding piece of furniture at regular spacings along the painted line.
While they discourage drivers from encroaching on the bike lane or more likely shared bus/bike lane, they are a real and present danger for cyclists to hit and come down on the roadway. This was my immediate reaction when I encountered this road furniture for the first time in Paris.
We also have something similar now in Hobart, and frankly, I prefer to ride on the adjacent roadway that have to deal with the posts, the intermittent kerbing, and the path uses that may at any time include cyclists, roller bladers, dog walkers, joggers and walkers. Apart from all those factors, the road surface actually is better to ride on.
My personal opinion is that the money spent on installing these sorts of facilities would be far better spent creating and running training programs for cyclists to ride their bikes properly, and to promote co-existence of motorists and cyclists in shared lanes.
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Face it, as much as most of us lament about the pitfalls of the personal auto, we are in a minority, as the majority perceive it as force multiplier- greater speed and distance, no schedule constraints- so it's a stretch to think that attitude is going to change anytime soon.
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God, I can't tell you how much I love protected bike lanes! They've converted the city I live in into one of the most cyclist-friendly in Europe. I concur with this new study. Protected bike lanes make cycling so much safer that the whole idea of commuting by bike becomes appealing to thousands of people.
Up with protected bike lanes! Down with "vehicular cycling"!
“Protected bike lanes safer, better,” says science. “Duh,” says rest of us.
Up with protected bike lanes! Down with "vehicular cycling"!
“Protected bike lanes safer, better,” says science. “Duh,” says rest of us.
How do your lanes cater for cyclists wanting to turn across the traffic?
It's a serious question, there are a couple of places near where I live where I've got into altercations with motorists because I've kept to the right of the lane (planning to turn right at the junction) and they expect me to use the cycle lane which is to the left of the lane (this is in the UK, where we drive on the left, for those who wonder why it all seems backwards). But using the cycle lane would mean staying to the far left only to then have to get across the traffic to turn right.
For people wanting to follow the road the cycle lane is a good provision but for people wanting to turn right it seems like more of a liability than an asset.
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Yes. I've been told that many times.
When there's a segregated bicycle path, within sight of the road, people who drive by feel it is their duty to yell out the window and tell you to use the path.
Sure, cyclists can ride on the highways, but if that bicycle path exists, motorists get quite upset that their tax dollars went toward building that path, and you're not using it.
When there's a segregated bicycle path, within sight of the road, people who drive by feel it is their duty to yell out the window and tell you to use the path.
Sure, cyclists can ride on the highways, but if that bicycle path exists, motorists get quite upset that their tax dollars went toward building that path, and you're not using it.
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