Last edited by Dave Cutter; 06-25-14 at 10:03 AM.
I am not "perverting old laws and debates to extract new meanings that don't apply." I am pointing out that popular sovereignty is a political logic applies today as strongly as it was in the ante-bellum 19th century. People even have the gall to call it the essence of democracy. I am just pointing out that sprawling urban development effectively reduces the freedom to choose forms of transportation besides driving. And even if only a minority of people are willing to acknowledge that they would like to have the choice/freedom to ride a bike or use transit, it's still a significant breach of freedom. There are also future generations who will inherit these sprawling city layouts. We are laying a foundation for them to accept driving as a mandate before their minds even get a chance to consider alternatives. Sad.
Thanks for apologizing. I can see that you have a critical mind so it interests me to see how you're thinking even though your values seem very different from mine.I am NOT talking down to you. But it is pointless to discuss where we are at (as a society) without a knowledge of history. Throughout history... city's rise and fall. Nothing has changed. You made a pointless silly remark about sprawl and slavery.... and got called on it.
However. Seriously... if my posts seemed gruff or offensive I apologize.
Seriously, I asked you how come you live in a city and yet have disdain for them, and your answer was that I should be able to figure it out. I admit I had a bit of an agenda in asking that question but you can correct me if I am leaping to conclusions. I wanted to see if you live in a city because it does in fact offer some advantages.
I would appreciate an answer beyond some dismissal.
In reality it's fear! City dwellers know things have changed. City factory's are mostly gone... long gone. Few office worker need to commute now that we have that new InterWeb thingy. The Web even makes city shopping almost pointless. Many city's have entered into their "Detroit" period. And posters all know it.
So now.... they want to FORCE the suburbanites and country people to pay for their failed efforts to run the city's.
ONE... I have no distain or even dislike for cities. That is your imagination.
TWO... Why does anyone chose to live anywhere. And I can! I could live almost anywhere on the planet I chose to. What would this one place put me close to.... that most humans value more than life itself.
Maybe you should ask your Mother. [not a put-down... that's a hint]
This page has a link under “area surcharges” that lists the postal codes in the lower 48 states where UPS adds a rural delivery surcharge (about 20,000 zip codes).
I randomly checked a few: Hartland, ME; Parkdale AZ; Baker City OR.
I haven’t checked if Fed-Ex etc. have a similar list, but for outgoing delivery, I do know Fed-Ex charges for pickup, or you can drop packages off at their locations. From my house in the city, the nearest Fed-Ex drop off is about a mile away so it doesn’t cost me much to get there, but if I lived 15 miles away I would either pay for pickup or spend a bit of time and energy dropping it off. So there’s a built–in rural surcharge for outgoing packages that way.
Last edited by cooker; 06-25-14 at 12:32 PM.
Where I think that this forum has had a problem all along is:
Living Car Free was meant to be about how YOU as a bicyclist or public transportation user dealt without owning a motor vehicle...
Not how to completely remove motor vehicles everywhere.
This is by no means a Sandinista kind of forum, it's a co-operative effort to REDUCE overall motor vehicle usage and document the clever ways Bike Forums members have done so. What it should not turn into is an endless VC topic, as there is already an entire A&S forum devoted to that. It shouldn't slip into a P&R or Trollheim subject.
Smile at Miles with a ROLLFAST!Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
So would anyone know the value between "sprawl" and "gentrification", because it seems that when individuals are left to do what they want they may not plan for the actual consequences of their actions. The METRO region was given authority to manage sprawl, so the problem in Portland is not "sprawl". The issue of gentrifying a neighborhood is actually protected through the argument of "free enterprise" which just means that both of these issues are linked to the "individuals wants" vs "group needs".
Which is why I will move from this urban destination, and seek my riches in the rural areas. I am actually shocked that no one has brought up "practices of sustainability" when living in rural areas.
While I may have to pay more for somethings. That is just the opportunity cost for other choices. I understand the fear of losing a away of life, but that is the process of life.
The reason I have returned to school to increase my capacity for technology, is because I have been in customer service for the last 25 years, and that industry is in the process of replacing labor cost for a different opportunity. For instance when you go grocery shopping do you use a person to check your groceries, or do you zap it down the self check out? When a manger tells me I have to use a machine and bag my own groceries I always ask for a discount since they do not have a labor cost. This usually makes the manager irritated, but they end opening the register for the sale.
So live simple to simply live.
I have been car-free since 2006...I simply could not afford to drive anymore. Some take this forum as an attempt to remove a 'freedom' when it's meant to help those who cannot drive.
I have been guilty of poking myself...after all, you aren't going to move a family's furniture to Barcelona by bike...it would be an awesome engineering feat to be able to do it though.
Smile at Miles with a ROLLFAST!Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
What can we, as a society, do to decrease UPS and FedEx's costs in transporting goods? This is the important question that no one is asking.
that is a pretty good answer to the- WHY cities question ?
It is where you can quickly find lots of actual humans-lotta variety and anonymity.
Different humans-not your PITB relatives/inlaws/fellow workers
You knew the answer all along-and were just testing us!
Last edited by cooker; 06-25-14 at 12:57 PM.
People have the right to explore different transportation options freely, wherever they may live. In this way, the future is determined by a market of free comparison between alternatives and not by the fact that you got locked into a certain choice as an opportunity cost for opting into a certain area or job.
Last edited by tandempower; 06-25-14 at 02:54 PM.
First is a non-profit program in Michigan called Land Bank. They buy properties and either keep them "in the bank" or restore and sell them. At first they mainly worked in rural areas to conserve farmland and forested areas. Now county land banks work in urban areas to prevent or reverse blight. They have "fast track" authority to quickly purchase foreclosed/abandoned properties. They either demolish or rehab the buildings, then resell them, using profits to buy more property. How does this reduce sprawl? Because it helps people who want to live in cities stay there, rather than being pushed into sprawl areas by lack of good housing in the cities.
Second is what you might be referring to, dynodonn. The Nature Conservancy and other non-profits get farmers and other rural people to deed their land to the non-profit. They are able to live on the land the rest of their lives, provided they don't allow development of the property. When they die, the non-profit takes full possession of the property.
These are both programs that are called "non-confrontational environmentalism". Most people can support them, regardless of their ideology.
"Think Outside the Cage"