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  1. #751
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooker View Post
    You love the straw man arguments, don't you?

    I don't mind subsidizing other people (especially those in need) for things that benefit both them and society as a whole, like public education, but I don't see why you would expect me me to subsidize middle class citizens in their optional lifestyle choices, and especially not their harmful behaviours like polluting and despoiling the landscape.
    Oh baloney! Don't play at being so noble and high minded. You do mind "subsidizing" anybody or anything which doesn't meet your personal approval, or is a program used by people who don't live your approved lifestyle, even if they are a large majority of the population.

    You should seek employment on some U.S. talk radio programs. Your concept of government programs subsidizing the wrong people and their "optional lifestyle choices" matches some of the "stuff" put out by wackadoodles on the airwaves.
    Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 07-11-14 at 09:46 PM.

  2. #752
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
    Driving is not a precondition to any inalienable right. Getting to where you feel like going just isn't a right. And that doesn't change if you pose it as a need to go somewhere. I'm not sure if you truly don't understand this or if you are just wishing it to be true. "The pursuit of happiness" is really nothing more than the right to be left alone to do as you please.

    You keep speaking of 'freedom' but what you're calling freedom is actually a desire to impose a detriment on someone else. You want someone to provide you with something and you just have no such rights in that regard. Every single thing you speak of has a cost. Whether or not you can say that cost is lower than some alternative makes no difference. There's a cost involved that someone must pay, thus your suggested freedom must infringe on the freedom of another. And that just doesn't work.
    .......

    And disparity is not an infringement on freedom. Ever.

    I
    Actually, the right to travel HAS been found to be a RIGHT.

    Contrary to your assertion, I think that the disparity in access to transportation resources IS an infringement on the right to travel.

    Case in point: Interstate 35W south of Minneapolis. ONLY automobile traffic is allowed on the 35W bridge over the Minnesota river; nevermind that my tax dollars helped to pay for that bridge. If I'm not in a car, I can't use that bridge.

    The disparity? The nearest bridge across the the river to the west is the Bloomington Ferry Bridge, 11 miles by bicycle. The nearest bridge to the east is the 494 interstate bridge, which does have a bike lane - 9 miles by bicycle to the east.

    And this is not in some out of the way river town - this is a Minneapolis suburb, the city consistently rated among the most bicycle friendly cities in the USA.

    Maybe you don't think that being prohibited from using infrastructure YOU paid for is an infringement, and cycling an extra 18 or 22 miles is no big deal. I beg to differ.

  3. #753
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Oh baloney! Don't play at being so noble and high minded. You do mind "subsidizing" anybody or anything which doesn't meet your personal approval, or is a program used by people who don't live your approved lifestyle, even if they are a large majority of the population.
    Now you're telling me what I think? But actually you got it partly right: I don’t want to subsidize the majority of the population in activities I believe are harmful. Do you?
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    You should seek employment on some U.S. talk radio programs. Your concept of government programs subsidizing the wrong people and their "optional lifestyle choices" matches some of the "stuff" put out by wackadoodles on the airwaves.
    LOL, Yeah, I'd be right at home on Fox ranting against cyclists and environmentalists. Or actually, wait...no. That doesn't work.
    Last edited by cooker; 07-11-14 at 11:05 PM.

  4. #754
    Prefers Cicero cooker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    You really need to stop hiding from the orderlies when they come round with the medication!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    No ... no one here said anything about mental illness.
    Right...

  5. #755
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Oh baloney! Don't play at being so noble and high minded. You do mind "subsidizing" anybody or anything which doesn't meet your personal approval, or is a program used by people who don't live your approved lifestyle, even if they are a large majority of the population.

    You should seek employment on some U.S. talk radio programs. Your concept of government programs subsidizing the wrong people and their "optional lifestyle choices" matches some of the "stuff" put out by wackadoodles on the airwaves.
    Another one who can't help but put out an insult by calling somebody crazy! Again, just because somebody disagrees with you doesnt mean they're crazy, and even if you're pretty sure they are crazy, it isnt polite to say so.

    The point is, car travels is almost the entire federal transportation budget, and even a bigger chunk of most state and municipal transportation budgets. So by far the biggest chunk goes to cars, not to bikes, walking, or even public transit. If only five percent of the highway funds went to alternative infrastructure, we would have a nice system of trails, bus lanes, and other good infrastructure.
    Last edited by Roody; 07-11-14 at 10:38 PM.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

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