Sprawl-free vs. car-free
#176
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Yikes-driving 6 miles to get groceries-bank-12 miles roundtrip in an "average older car" city driving-maybe 2/3 gallon-almost $3 -plus wear and tear on vehicle-figure $6 per trip easily.
And forget about riding public transportation with frozen food-6 miles-probably 40 minutes one way+ wait time-
you flat can't buy frozen food-
and poultry-beef- really not improved by 1 hr in the summer heat!
Bacon/ham/preserved meats-do OK but they aren't so great stomach cancer wise.(taste good of course-vit c might mitigate the stomach cancer risk- fresh tomatoes (vit c source)good combo with ham/bacon/lunch meat -tastes great too-BLT-HAM EGG TOMATO OMELET)
And forget about riding public transportation with frozen food-6 miles-probably 40 minutes one way+ wait time-
you flat can't buy frozen food-
and poultry-beef- really not improved by 1 hr in the summer heat!
Bacon/ham/preserved meats-do OK but they aren't so great stomach cancer wise.(taste good of course-vit c might mitigate the stomach cancer risk- fresh tomatoes (vit c source)good combo with ham/bacon/lunch meat -tastes great too-BLT-HAM EGG TOMATO OMELET)
#177
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Because it is pretty hard for Oakland to attract development for a whole host of reasons that are way off topic for this thread. A community-oriented grocer is in the fundraising phase for West Oakalnd at the moment, but several mainstream grocery projects have fell off in that area over the past couple years.
The new east Oakland store took like 20 years of effort. New mall in neglected East Oakland 'changing the community' - SFGate
The new east Oakland store took like 20 years of effort. New mall in neglected East Oakland 'changing the community' - SFGate
Hi Jade408
Do the farmers markets accept the EBT program? The reason I ask is that in Portland the markets not only accept them, but also have an exchange rate of 3/1 for the first ten dollars they spend. This purchase choice has been very helpful to the community members who need the support.
#178
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No human has EVER been so misinformed as to equate slavery... to freedom.
Last edited by Dave Cutter; 06-23-14 at 02:02 PM.
#179
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A name for a process when a city grows too rapidly? Yes... there is a name for that! Of course first you have to accept that there is NO correct speed for any city to grow at. Then read the book "future Shock"[future shock by alvin toffler 1971].
#180
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No not at all. Brains are.... what they are. In order to solve complex problems we have to have a working knowledge of the instruments we use. The human brain will process information in predicable ways. Not understanding how that gray-matter processing works is often the root of consistent errors.
#181
Sophomoric Member
Individuals that are able to obtain their resources digitally can start to look at living away from the traditional hubs, and start looking at building sustainable communities in the interior of the US (your country here). Which than allows for new development models and can be organized with a different quality of life in mind.
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#182
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Interesting idea. In what way would you say "'modern' cities were on the verge of pandemic abandonment when cars replaced the horse as the primary means of transportation?" I.e. what was the driving cause of 'abandonment?' What decade(s) are you referring to? I'm interested in discussing this objectively but I would need to know what specific factors you're thinking of to limit the viability of 'modern' cities at that time prior to widespread driving.........
Why don't you rush out an spend a couple thousand hours learning how you got to where you at right now. Then... I'll even open up a chat room for you.
#184
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#186
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Apparently.... you got by not learning "the basics" at work. I'd guess you won't get them here... now... ether.
Last edited by Dave Cutter; 06-23-14 at 02:17 PM.
#187
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Or... you could own, operate, and manage this Web Site from most burgs in America. [please note: this Site is monitored internationally] And brown UPS trucks still show up (just like those big city people get). The entire "idea" of a need for cities and city service.... is so 1950ish. People should get out more.
Last edited by Dave Cutter; 06-23-14 at 02:18 PM.
#188
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Hi Jade408
Do the farmers markets accept the EBT program? The reason I ask is that in Portland the markets not only accept them, but also have an exchange rate of 3/1 for the first ten dollars they spend. This purchase choice has been very helpful to the community members who need the support.
Do the farmers markets accept the EBT program? The reason I ask is that in Portland the markets not only accept them, but also have an exchange rate of 3/1 for the first ten dollars they spend. This purchase choice has been very helpful to the community members who need the support.
Kaiser does run weekly markets in many of their locations, but the one in my neighborhood is pretty pricy.
#189
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Land is required in order to make a community, ever thing else is a process of attraction. So like many others I am looking for the new frontier.
Now here is the shift
Find a town that is in the interior of the US, that has a certain level of infrastructure that can support a car free community. I want the capitalist to be centered in the core and have a spiral from there to residential housing and supports.
For me to do this I will need to have a financial resource to cover my bills, allow for a savings, and find a community. As a recent graduate I will leverage my new skill set, and collaborate it with other individuals that I already know to develop a social enterprise that is based on the internet (which is not going away, but will be drastically changed) allowing me to have less dependance on being in brick and mortar.
As a social enterprise I will have the capacity to leverage the resources above operating cost to use to fund my make believe community, and in addition be able to bypass most of that progressive "NOT IN MY BACK YARD" bs that prevents a non-profit from development.
Is this clear enough of what I mean by digital resources?
#190
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Ok, Portland has a farmers market on just about every corner. There was a group trying to do a grocery truck in the lower Northwest area since there is no immediate shopping there. Now in the outer east side you can travel pretty far for a grocery store.
#191
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Nitrosamines[edit]
A principal concern about sodium nitrite is the formation of carcinogenic nitrosamines in meats containing sodium nitrite when meat is charred or overcooked. Such carcinogenic nitrosamines can also be formed from the reaction of nitrite with secondary amines under acidic conditions (such as occurs in the human stomach) as well as during the curing process used to preserve meats. Dietary sources of nitrosamines include US cured meats preserved with sodium nitrite as well as the dried salted fish eaten in Japan. In the 1920s, a significant change in US meat curing practices resulted in a 69% decrease in average nitrite content. This event preceded the beginning of a dramatic decline in gastric cancer mortality.[26] About 1970, it was found that ascorbic acid (vitamin C), an antioxidant, inhibits nitrosamine formation.[27] Consequently, the addition of at least 550 ppm of ascorbic acid is required in meats manufactured in the United States. Manufacturers sometimes instead use erythorbic acid, a cheaper but equally effective isomer of ascorbic acid. Additionally, manufacturers may include alpha-tocopherol (vitamin E) to further inhibit nitrosamine production. Alpha-tocopherol, ascorbic acid, and erythorbic acid all inhibit nitrosamine production by their oxidation-reduction properties. Ascorbic acid, for example, forms dehydroascorbic acid when oxidized, which when in the presence of nitrous anhydride, a potent nitrosating agent formed from sodium nitrate, reduces the nitrous anhydride into nitric oxide.[28] Note that nitrous anhydride does not exist in vitro.[29]
So when you crisp that bacon-drink OJ eat tomatoes-or take a multivitamin-I wouldn't rely on some meat packing plant to always get the dose right.
Probably sourcing it from china or india-who knows-but cheap and quick is the rule in that business
The rest you can look up.
A principal concern about sodium nitrite is the formation of carcinogenic nitrosamines in meats containing sodium nitrite when meat is charred or overcooked. Such carcinogenic nitrosamines can also be formed from the reaction of nitrite with secondary amines under acidic conditions (such as occurs in the human stomach) as well as during the curing process used to preserve meats. Dietary sources of nitrosamines include US cured meats preserved with sodium nitrite as well as the dried salted fish eaten in Japan. In the 1920s, a significant change in US meat curing practices resulted in a 69% decrease in average nitrite content. This event preceded the beginning of a dramatic decline in gastric cancer mortality.[26] About 1970, it was found that ascorbic acid (vitamin C), an antioxidant, inhibits nitrosamine formation.[27] Consequently, the addition of at least 550 ppm of ascorbic acid is required in meats manufactured in the United States. Manufacturers sometimes instead use erythorbic acid, a cheaper but equally effective isomer of ascorbic acid. Additionally, manufacturers may include alpha-tocopherol (vitamin E) to further inhibit nitrosamine production. Alpha-tocopherol, ascorbic acid, and erythorbic acid all inhibit nitrosamine production by their oxidation-reduction properties. Ascorbic acid, for example, forms dehydroascorbic acid when oxidized, which when in the presence of nitrous anhydride, a potent nitrosating agent formed from sodium nitrate, reduces the nitrous anhydride into nitric oxide.[28] Note that nitrous anhydride does not exist in vitro.[29]
So when you crisp that bacon-drink OJ eat tomatoes-or take a multivitamin-I wouldn't rely on some meat packing plant to always get the dose right.
Probably sourcing it from china or india-who knows-but cheap and quick is the rule in that business
The rest you can look up.
#192
Prefers Cicero
Roody would pay his share through a carbon tax which would gauge exactly how much he "uses" the freeway (a hell of a lot less than someone who drives on it every day).
#193
Prefers Cicero
Or... you could own, operate, and manage this Web Site from most burgs in America. [please note: this Site is monitored internationally] And brown UPS trucks still show up (just like those big city people get). The entire "idea" of a need for cities and city service.... is so 1950ish. People should get out more.
#194
Sophomoric Member
I know you independent libertarian types don't want to subsidize or be subsidized by others, so you will refuse "free" delivery on government built roads. Right?
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#195
Sophomoric Member
It just would be nice if the rugged individualists living in those remote places would acknowledge that they are socialists as much as I am. Instead of being off the grid, they are living in the expensive part of the grid that is the most heavily subsidized by their fellow citizens. You're welcome!
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#196
Prefers Cicero
As more people in outlying areas start to work from home electronically, and if they can get goods delivered by low energy drones, that would lessen some of the cost of sprawl. It would still be an inefficient way to live, in terms of utilities and social services like police response times, fire departments, etc. but less harmful than it is now if it hugely reduces single car long distance commuting.
Last edited by cooker; 06-23-14 at 07:03 PM.
#197
Senior Member
Sorry - don't have time now. I'm feverishly studying up on the horrible poop-pocalyspe of the early 20th century. I guess the underfunded state schools that I attended neglected to teach this.
#198
Senior Member
I actually don't mind paying for roads, even those in remote places. After all, the highway network is more valuable if it's extensive and complete.
It just would be nice if the rugged individualists living in those remote places would acknowledge that they are socialists as much as I am. Instead of being off the grid, they are living in the expensive part of the grid that is the most heavily subsidized by their fellow citizens. You're welcome!
It just would be nice if the rugged individualists living in those remote places would acknowledge that they are socialists as much as I am. Instead of being off the grid, they are living in the expensive part of the grid that is the most heavily subsidized by their fellow citizens. You're welcome!
#199
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I admit that I haven't read this whole thread, however I have read enough to get the gist of the discussion. I have lived in New York City and lived in a semi rural community. I now live in Albany which I see as a perfect balance between the two. This is just personal preference obviously, but it strikes the perfect balance of detached single family homes and urban amenities in my opinion.
#200
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As more people in outlying areas start to work from home electronically, and if they can get goods delivered by low energy drones, that would lessen some of the cost of sprawl. It would still be an inefficient way to live, in terms of utilities and social services like police response times, fire departments, etc. but less harmful than it is now if it hugely reduces single car long distance commuting.
For myself, my greatest enjoyment in my workday is getting there