Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-05-14, 05:22 PM   #1
Profileclimb
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Profileclimb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Millennials don't really care about cars.

I have read many fascinating articles on how Millennials care about technology and social networking and the expense of owning a car is not needed as they are all connected through technology and bus or bicycle are the transportation modes of choice.The car manufactures see a disturbing trend, and don't know what to do.The problem is cars are getting more expensive, and young people don't have large incomes and don't want to be saddled with massive debt.I trying to fund flight school and helicopters are very expensive, as I ponder not buying a car how much money I can save. I think the Millennials are smarter than we thought. I find cars are convenient, but the insane cost, and with technology and social networking being the game changer.I see Millennials spending as much on their cell phone bill as a car payment, that is one issue in sure.
Profileclimb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-14, 05:42 PM   #2
Machka 
In Real Life
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 46,669
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 559 Post(s)
Large thread about this topic here:
Millennials Don't Care About Owning Cars; Car Makers Can't Figure Out Why
Machka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 10:50 PM   #3
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,727
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
In my city, I see that a lot of young people are moving to a neighborhood that has good carfree amenities and a lot of entertainment and inexpensive restaurants. Many of them don't have cars, or share a car with housemates. Many of these people attended a large university nearby, and decided to stay in the area after graduating. It's certainly one of the most hopeful signs in our region, and the city government is doing a lot to encourage this pattern.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-14, 11:27 PM   #4
krobinson103
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Incheon, South Korea
Bikes: Nothing amazing... cheap old 21 speed mtb
Posts: 2,837
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I choose my house by a simple rule. Can I cycle anywhere I need to go (including work) within 30 minutes? If not then I'll find a place that fits. A car is the tool of last resort for me and I was born in the 1970s when people drove around in big cars. I remember my father had a v6 Ford Falcon and a v8 in his jetboat. Not so common these days!
krobinson103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-14, 06:51 AM   #5
gerv 
In the right lane
 
gerv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Des Moines
Bikes: 1974 Huffy 3 speed
Posts: 9,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by krobinson103 View Post
I choose my house by a simple rule. Can I cycle anywhere I need to go (including work) within 30 minutes? If not then I'll find a place that fits. A car is the tool of last resort for me and I was born in the 1970s when people drove around in big cars. I remember my father had a v6 Ford Falcon and a v8 in his jetboat. Not so common these days!
Most thinking people would chose a house close to amenities... even if they used the car extensively. Unfortunately many are forced to settle for less than ideal suburbs that meet their price range.
gerv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-14, 03:08 AM   #6
keyven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Singapore
Bikes: Fully customized 11-spd MTB built on 2014 Santa Cruz 5010 frame; Brompton S2E-X 2014; Brompton M3E 2014
Posts: 1,117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by krobinson103 View Post
I choose my house by a simple rule. Can I cycle anywhere I need to go (including work) within 30 minutes? If not then I'll find a place that fits. A car is the tool of last resort for me and I was born in the 1970s when people drove around in big cars. I remember my father had a v6 Ford Falcon and a v8 in his jetboat. Not so common these days!
So was I - when I was a Melbourne student in the early 00s, the big Ford Falcons and Holden Commodores were already starting to die out, to be replaced by Toyotas and Hondas.

Now they are pretty rare compared to the SUVs which have taken their place.
keyven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-14, 07:28 AM   #7
modelmartin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Minneapols, Minnesota
Bikes: 89 Raleigh Technium PRE, 92 SP 1000 ti, '09 Team Pro, 72 International, 63 Hercules 3-spd, '81 Vitus 979, 2 Kabuki Submariners, 2 C. Itoh Submariners, Gary Fisher Big Sur, Skyway 3-spd, Robin Hood w/ S-A IGH 5 speed.
Posts: 533
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Baby Boomer here! My, how times have changed. Getting a car was everything when I was a teen! Of course there were no PCs or cellphones at all then. My first car was $175. but my hourly was $1.75! I could do all of the maintenance and tune-ups. My insurance through my parents policy was about $50.00 for six months.

I totally can understand how younger people today can't bother with cars. The prices are crazy and repairs are deadly to the budget. With Hour Car and other services for when you do need a vehicle - why bother? I would definitely go carless if I were young today.
modelmartin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-14, 08:35 AM   #8
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,342
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Many millennials do care about cars, it's just that most don't hold them to the same status level as earlier generations did. The millennials that I work with, a car is just a means of transport and not much else. Take away their car, and life might be a little more difficult for them, but take away their smart phone.........
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-14, 08:44 AM   #9
mconlonx 
Nobody
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 7,352
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1417 Post(s)
Quote:
Jason Dorsey, a management consultant, marketer, and self-proclaimed "Generational Expert" sought to explain the buying habits of the millennials, which, actually, can't really be explained, because it turns out "millennial" is just an insipid generalization.


Millenials buy cars, too...
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-14, 04:34 PM   #10
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 22,134
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1128 Post(s)
they look better in the car ads than us old fartz..
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-14, 05:40 PM   #11
findude
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Metro DC
Bikes:
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The ~2008 financial crisis really affected this "trend" more than is immediately obvious. Millenials weren't buying cars for a lot of reasons, but a big one was that they had no money, little prospect of a steady income, and were as likely to have moved back in with their parents as not so they could borrow a parent's car occasionally. They didn't buy cars simply because it did not pencil.

I do agree that cars are have less value as prestige objects than for the baby boomer generation and one can stay current on with the latest connectivity prestige objects for much less money than car payments. The millenials are taking a hard look at suburban cul-de-sac life with large lots and low walkscores and preferring dense urban cores. This is a good thing, but the real truth-telling will occur when those millenials have offspring and decide that a superior school system, a quarter-acre + lot, and easy access to the kids' soccer field are more important than the urban life ideals of their youth.

I am hopeful, though, that many will actually calculate the costs of suburban life and realize they are better off in urban settings.
findude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-14, 06:03 PM   #12
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Orangevale CA
Bikes: '76 Paramount, 02 Hardrock, '98 C'Dale XR800, '04 Burley Samba, '15 Priority Classic
Posts: 6,235
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Speaking as one on the Gen X / Gen Y boundary who does like cars, it's hard to afford with the added costs we are expected to pick up. A new car now costs much more than it did in the sixties, because it is much better, with electronic fuel injection, shoulder belts, crumple zones, airbags, stability control, and a lot more luxury too. You are required to carry insurance. If you dare to have an accident ever, the insurance goes up. If you think a cell phone bill is equivalent to a car payment plus insurance you haven't bought a car lately. You are looking at net $300/mo for a penalty box and $600/mo for something nice. Cars more expensive than that are usually bought on lease. Aside from the car payment, the expected standard of living is higher, in larger houses with more amenities on smaller lots, and wages have been stagnating. There is that cell phone bill and also a cable bill which no one paid fifty years ago. We don't get pensions, so we have to save for ourselves while we watch our forebears get a payout for working fewer years. The cost of health care for my family at least, with a high deductible plan the only one available, is $14,000 a year. You can't get a job to pay for all this stuff without a college degree, and many people my age are still carrying student loans, and that situation hasn't gotten better for those who followed me.

And the cars, even though they are much better, are mostly pretty boring and getting more so. I had a 2001 and a 2011 WRX and the former despite having much less power at the same weight was a much more fun car. It was amusing to look at and had a sort of hanging-on-by-one-tire feel to driving. The later one was faster, planted, styled conservatively, and dull.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
"Christmas is supposed to bring people together, not blow them apart!"
Darth Lefty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-14, 11:27 AM   #13
erbfarm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes:
Posts: 385
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
While it may be true that Millennials as a whole are buying cars less frequently than their parents did, and it also may be true that many Gen X-ers, Boomers, etc are ditching the burbs for a low-car life in the city, at the same time, there does not seem to be any shortage of people driving cars. Anywhere. Not even in bike friendly cities. I live in Portland, and I bike everywhere. Yet I can't believe how many jacked up trucks, mag wheel Mustangs, 20 year old beater cars etc race by me on the bike friendly sharrows. I'm guessing it's not the Boomers driving these cars either. The freeway is always a constant roar. So even if all Millennials never buy a car, we still have plenty of work to do to get more people out of cars and into other forms of transit to make places safer, more pleasant, and less noisy in general.
erbfarm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-14, 12:45 PM   #14
eastbay71
Senior Member
 
eastbay71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Bikes: the bikes own me
Posts: 692
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by krobinson103 View Post
I choose my house by a simple rule. Can I cycle anywhere I need to go (including work) within 30 minutes? If not then I'll find a place that fits. A car is the tool of last resort for me and I was born in the 1970s when people drove around in big cars. I remember my father had a v6 Ford Falcon and a v8 in his jetboat. Not so common these days!
It would be great if I could be so flexible. I couldn't afford to buy the house today that I bought 6 years ago so if my job changed I could not afford to pick up and move. I also have a spouse that I have to consider she works about 75 miles away from me (we drive in opposite directions) so no home would fit into the ideal 30 minute radius for us.
eastbay71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-14, 03:23 PM   #15
Robert C
Senior Member
 
Robert C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Salt lake, UT
Bikes: This list got too long: several ‘bents, an urban utility e-bike, and a dahon D7 that my daughter has absconded with.
Posts: 1,701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
I work in a rural area; so most of the kids here still want cars. The problem with small towns is that even the nearest bike shops is about 70 miles away with no public transportation at all (other than a flight to Denver once a day).
Robert C is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-14, 02:06 PM   #16
Maxillius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: SE Michigan
Bikes: 2014 Genesis GS29 (Yellow Fork)
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There are a few sides to the car-free Millennial trend.

1. New cars are expensive, and so are used ones. By the time you get down into the stuff "kids" can afford, they're spending more on repairs than they are on payments.

2. Those young people who can afford a new car can't afford a *good* new car. Sure, car makers market their small, slow offerings to young people with electronics and high MPG numbers, but who has grown up desiring a Toyota Corolla? Boomers had the muscle car era, we have Peak Oil and the green police.

3. Those used cars that are cheap enough for most young people to buy fall under the scrutiny of government regulation in most states. Regs that say your windshield can't have any cracks, ABS must work, etc.; stuff that would knock an otherwise decent car down into our price bracket while still being perfectly driveable. I've got it lucky in Michigan, my car would fail any inspection in those states that demand a pass before obtaining yearly tags, but it's fine. Still, is it something I *want*? Not hardly.

4. Most Millennials have noticed, as some here have pointed out, that they can buy a top-of-the-line bike fully outfitted for their commute for the price of a 2000 Chevy Cavalier, or a lower-spec one for the cost of suspension repairs on said car. Plus you have costs of gas, tags, insurance, and in most states an inspection fee. None of which apply to the bicycle because you're feeding yourself anyway and you're its engine.

Car-free/light is starting to make a lot of sense to me since I started reading this forum. Nevermind that my car makes my back hurt on journeys long enough to make driving make sense.
Maxillius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-14, 03:09 PM   #17
Ekdog
Senior Member
 
Ekdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Posts: 4,367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxillius View Post
Boomers had the muscle car era, we have Peak Oil and the green police.
Who are the "green police"?
Ekdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-14, 03:47 PM   #18
Maxillius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: SE Michigan
Bikes: 2014 Genesis GS29 (Yellow Fork)
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Emissions mandates and fuel mileage legislation. Everyone who has taken the fun out of driving. The reason why cars like the Dodge Challenger are $45k+ instead of the equivalent of $15k like they were in the late 60s and early 70s.

I understand the perceived slight there, considering this is a cycling forum, and I didn't intend to offend anyone. I ride because I like to, not because I believe Al Gore's story.
Maxillius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-14, 05:59 PM   #19
gerv 
In the right lane
 
gerv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Des Moines
Bikes: 1974 Huffy 3 speed
Posts: 9,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxillius View Post
Emissions mandates and fuel mileage legislation. Everyone who has taken the fun out of driving. The reason why cars like the Dodge Challenger are $45k+ instead of the equivalent of $15k like they were in the late 60s and early 70s.

I understand the perceived slight there, considering this is a cycling forum, and I didn't intend to offend anyone. I ride because I like to, not because I believe Al Gore's story.

Last edited by gerv; 10-06-14 at 06:03 PM. Reason: trollibus ergo sum..
gerv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-14, 09:55 PM   #20
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,727
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxillius View Post
Emissions mandates and fuel mileage legislation. Everyone who has taken the fun out of driving. The reason why cars like the Dodge Challenger are $45k+ instead of the equivalent of $15k like they were in the late 60s and early 70s.

I understand the perceived slight there, considering this is a cycling forum, and I didn't intend to offend anyone. I ride because I like to, not because I believe Al Gore's story.
Even though they're pretty expensive, the price of driving is still deeply subsidized by governments. And drivers don't even begin to pay for externalized coats like public health problems, extreme environmental damage, degradation of the atmosphere, and wars fought for oil.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-14, 11:04 PM   #21
TheBoogly
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Miami, FL
Bikes: Trek 7.2 FX
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by findude View Post
This is a good thing, but the real truth-telling will occur when those millenials have offspring and decide that a superior school system, a quarter-acre + lot, and easy access to the kids' soccer field are more important than the urban life ideals of their youth.
It won't matter what they prefer if the sub-urban life is not financially possible for them. Some see the 2008 collapse as a temporary aberration that we will get over. We will come out of the rock bottom but, for reasons that I won't fully develop here, I think that we're going to experience a period of prolonged stagnation and economic de-growth. Millenial culture may not prize the car but even if they did it is a moot point. Economics is the tail that wags the dog.

Last edited by TheBoogly; 10-06-14 at 11:13 PM.
TheBoogly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 12:11 AM   #22
Ekdog
Senior Member
 
Ekdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Posts: 4,367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
And drivers don't even begin to pay for externalized coats like public health problems, extreme environmental damage, degradation of the atmosphere...
Didn't you read his post. He doesn't believe "Al Gore's story".
Ekdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 01:14 AM   #23
Astrozombie
Senior Member
 
Astrozombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: East L.A.
Bikes: Windsor Dover, Motobecane Mirage, Diamondback Insight
Posts: 873
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
^ And Inflation, that Challenger was going to cost more regardless.
Astrozombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 03:41 PM   #24
Maxillius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: SE Michigan
Bikes: 2014 Genesis GS29 (Yellow Fork)
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
Didn't you read his post. He doesn't believe "Al Gore's story".
Thus everything I say from now until eternity is void. But I didn't come in here for a debate on religion so...

TheBoogly's got it right. The economic climate doesn't favor the suburban life in the foreseeable future so it's just as well that Millennials aren't attached to their cars. Economics trump all other issues. Would I like a Tesla? Heck yes! Can I afford an $80k car? I wish! I can't even afford to fix the one I got for $500 properly. No one likes getting gas, no one likes breathing exhaust and if there was a cheap alternative that the lazies could get on board with (smoke-belching buses don't count), the change would be immediate. But the fact of the matter is that the current liquid fuel infrastructure took over 70 years to build to its current state and to convert to an all-electric system would cost billions and take decades. And no amount of bird-killing windmills will change that.
Maxillius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 10:06 PM   #25
Ekdog
Senior Member
 
Ekdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Posts: 4,367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxillius View Post
Thus everything I say from now until eternity is void. But I didn't come in here for a debate on religion so...

TheBoogly's got it right. The economic climate doesn't favor the suburban life in the foreseeable future so it's just as well that Millennials aren't attached to their cars. Economics trump all other issues. Would I like a Tesla? Heck yes! Can I afford an $80k car? I wish! I can't even afford to fix the one I got for $500 properly. No one likes getting gas, no one likes breathing exhaust and if there was a cheap alternative that the lazies could get on board with (smoke-belching buses don't count), the change would be immediate. But the fact of the matter is that the current liquid fuel infrastructure took over 70 years to build to its current state and to convert to an all-electric system would cost billions and take decades. And no amount of bird-killing windmills will change that.
Ekdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:51 AM.