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  1. #1
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    Living car free can enhance your level of privacy

    I'm glad my bicycle has no license plate. I'd just as soon not have people tracking my whereabouts and using that information in ways I can't safely predict.

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    Senior Member Smallwheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
    I'm glad my bicycle has no license plate. I'd just as soon not have people tracking my whereabouts and using that information in ways I can't safely predict.
    This is one big benefit of being car free. Unfortunately unless you live totally off the grid you already have a big footprint into the government ID world. It is almost not worth the effort of trying to disappear from the prying eyes of the government.

    This always makes me think about Max Headroom and the character Blank Reg. He was a blank to the government because he was off the grid.
    Smallwheels

    Take my stuff, please. I have way too much. My current goal is to have all of my possessions fit onto a large bicycle trailer. Really.

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    Senior Member wolfchild's Avatar
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    You may not have a license plate but you have internet, maybe you even have a cell phone, what about a bank account, there goes your privacy.

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    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Sometimes being carfree takes away privacy. I've often had colleagues and friends tell me "I saw you yesterday afternoon riding your bike down on the south side." If I'd been driving, they probably wouldn't have seen me. On the bus I run into people (like former patients) who I don't particularly want to talk to.


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  5. #5
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    Sometimes being carfree takes away privacy. I've often had colleagues and friends tell me "I saw you yesterday afternoon riding your bike down on the south side." If I'd been driving, they probably wouldn't have seen me. On the bus I run into people (like former patients) who I don't particularly want to talk to.
    This...

    When I was car free everybody saw me everywhere... I was probably better know locally then than I am now.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
    This...

    When I was car free everybody saw me everywhere... I was probably better know locally then than I am now.

    Aaron
    That wouldn't work here, I'm happy to say. Too many cyclists and pedestrians.
    Last edited by Ekdog; 01-02-15 at 07:30 AM.
    Smug, bicycle-riding, car-bashing, public transport-using zealot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
    I'm glad my bicycle has no license plate. I'd just as soon not have people tracking my whereabouts and using that information in ways I can't safely predict.
    There is so much criminal activity in the country today that law enforcement is setting cameras practically everywhere. I am all for these them since they have often led to the capture of numerous criminals. These cameras are to protect everyone including the carfree from the motor centrist who are using their vehicles to commit violent crime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
    There is so much criminal activity in the country today that law enforcement is setting cameras practically everywhere. I am all for these them since they have often led to the capture of numerous criminals. These cameras are to protect everyone including the carfree from the motor centrist who are using their vehicles to commit violent crime.
    That's a good boy. You've understood just like you're supposed to. Keep letting your fear give up more and more of your privacy and freedom in the world. The government will protect you. Nevermind that they don't need to keep this information on innocent citizens indefinitely. They'll use that information wisely and always in your best interest.

  9. #9
    Daily Rider Robert C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
    That's a good boy. You've understood just like you're supposed to. Keep letting your fear give up more and more of your privacy and freedom in the world. The government will protect you. Nevermind that they don't need to keep this information on innocent citizens indefinitely. They'll use that information wisely and always in your best interest.
    Does it matter that crime is down so much that even the Economist was recently running articles titled Where have all the burglars gone?

    Trying to explain the dramatic fall in crime rated has turned into an entire field of science by itself. The fall in crime rates is a given, anywhere other than popular media. The question remains, Where have all the criminals gone?
    As a nation we still continue to enjoy a literally unprecedented prosperity; and it is probable that only reckless speculation and disregard of legitimate business methods on the part of the business world can materially mar this prosperity. Theodore Roosevelt, Sixth Annual Message, December 3, 1906

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
    Does it matter that crime is down so much that even the Economist was recently running articles titled Where have all the burglars gone?

    Trying to explain the dramatic fall in crime rated has turned into an entire field of science by itself. The fall in crime rates is a given, anywhere other than popular media. The question remains, Where have all the criminals gone?
    They didn't get born, because of row v. wade.

  11. #11
    Daily Rider Robert C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
    They didn't get born, because of row v. wade.
    That is part of it; but not all. One other factor was something that was also totally unexpected; removing the lead form the gasoline is also a large part of the explanation.
    Steven Levitt, an economist at the University of Chicago, has argued that the legalisation of abortion in the 1970s cut America’s crime rate by reducing the number of children growing up in inner-city poverty and thus predisposed to criminality. But that cannot explain why rates have kept falling long after such an effect should have tapered off, or why crime rates in Britain, where abortion has been legal for longer, began falling later. Jessica Wolpaw Reyes, an American researcher, has argued that the cognitive effects of exposure to lead were a primary determinant of violent crime, and unleaded petrol is to thank for the improvement.
    From the linked article

    Another factor is that they are still at home:
    In most countries young people are increasingly sober and well behaved. They are more likely to live with their parents and to be in higher education—across the European Union 28% of adults aged 25-34 still live at home.
    There are still other explanations; but, basically, the news is good:
    The period of rising crime from the 1950s through to the 1980s looks increasingly like an historical anomaly.
    20130720_FBC855.png
    As a nation we still continue to enjoy a literally unprecedented prosperity; and it is probable that only reckless speculation and disregard of legitimate business methods on the part of the business world can materially mar this prosperity. Theodore Roosevelt, Sixth Annual Message, December 3, 1906

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
    That is part of it; but not all. One other factor was something that was also totally unexpected; removing the lead form the gasoline is also a large part of the explanation.
    Interesting. Thanks.

  13. #13
    Daily Rider Robert C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
    Interesting. Thanks.

    What's more, by torturing the topic long enough, we can make it relevant to Living Car Free!
    As a nation we still continue to enjoy a literally unprecedented prosperity; and it is probable that only reckless speculation and disregard of legitimate business methods on the part of the business world can materially mar this prosperity. Theodore Roosevelt, Sixth Annual Message, December 3, 1906

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
    What's more, by torturing the topic long enough, we can make it relevant to Living Car Free!
    It's relevant to LCF history, or lack thereof. Lead in gasoline would not be an issue were it not for cars! (a little relevancy can be found anywhere).

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
    Does it matter that crime is down so much that even the Economist was recently running articles titled Where have all the burglars gone?

    Trying to explain the dramatic fall in crime rated has turned into an entire field of science by itself. The fall in crime rates is a given, anywhere other than popular media. The question remains, Where have all the criminals gone?
    That was a very good article. They didn't mention the widespread use of cameras since the technology didn't become inexpensive until the past 15 years. Some streets in New York City (ie. Wall Street) have hundreds of cameras installed and most are not visible. Make no doubt about it, the manhunt may have taken months or years to arrest the Boston bombers but on street cameras caught them in the act.

    You better get used to it because we are not going back. I feel safe because I'm not going to rob or kill anyone on the street. The people who need to worry are those breaking the law.

    The technology is only going to get better and it's being used to make the streets safer. The motor centrist do not want cameras because they enjoy speeding or making illegal lane changes etc. Speed cameras reduce accidents both serious and non-serious while saving lives. If this means the motorist loses some privacy so that we can walk or ride our bikes on the street safely, so be it. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

    If the motorist doesn't like cameras and prefers to keep their identity a secret, the solution is simple.

    Become carfree.

    >>>>>>
    The 2010 Cochrane Review of speed cameras for the prevention of road traffic injuries and deaths[56] reported that all 28 studies accepted by the authors found the effect of speed cameras to be a reduction in all crashes, injury crashes, and death or severe injury crashes. "Twenty eight studies measured the effect on crashes. All 28 studies found a lower number of crashes in the speed camera areas after implementation of the program. In the vicinity of camera sites, the reductions ranged from 8% to 49% for all crashes, with reductions for most studies in the 14% to 25% range. For injury crashes the decrease ranged between 8% to 50% and for crashes resulting in fatalities or serious injuries the reductions were in the range of 11% to 44%. Effects over wider areas showed reductions for all crashes ranging from 9% to 35%, with most studies reporting reductions in the 11% to 27% range. For crashes resulting in death or serious injury reductions ranged from 17% to 58%, with most studies reporting this result in the 30% to 40% reduction range. The studies of longer duration showed that these positive trends were either maintained or improved with time.">>>>

    http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/...sop_181110.pdf

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
    The people who need to worry are those breaking the law
    The information can still be misused. I have no reason for blanket-trust of all individuals in law enforcement! We need regulations on how long the information can be retained on citizens that are not charged with a crime.

    But for me personally it is not an issue - until bicycles are required to be registered and display a tag.

  17. #17
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
    That is part of it; but not all. One other factor was something that was also totally unexpected; removing the lead form the gasoline is also a large part of the explanation.

    From the linked article

    Another factor is that they are still at home:


    There are still other explanations; but, basically, the news is good:


    20130720_FBC855.png
    That's something that a lot of people don't understand. I often have people tell me they wouldn't be carfree because of "all the the crime these days." They just can't believe that the streets are much safer than they were in their grandparent's or parent's day.

    I believe traffic fatalities are also down. Does anybody have figures on that?


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
    I'm glad my bicycle has no license plate. I'd just as soon not have people tracking my whereabouts and using that information in ways I can't safely predict.
    You'r employed, aren't you? Do you have a bank account of any sort? Use a credit or debit card, or even a checking account (do people still use them???)? You care for you mother, don't you? Do you or she receive any support? Do you rent or own? Do you have electricity connected? What about your internet connection? And you don't honestly think you are entirely anonymous to the commercial entities that own Bike Forums and advertise on them, do you?

    Some of the wealthiest companies in the western world are virtually unknown to the average punter, but they are very, very good at tracking people and their habits.

    Everything you do creates an identity trail of some sort that gets converted to digital data. You can either accept it and get on with living your life, or be paranoid about it.
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I believe traffic fatalities are also down. Does anybody have figures on that?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

    Smug, bicycle-riding, car-bashing, public transport-using zealot.

  20. #20
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    You'r employed, aren't you? Do you have a bank account of any sort? Use a credit or debit card, or even a checking account (do people still use them???)? You care for you mother, don't you? Do you or she receive any support? Do you rent or own? Do you have electricity connected? What about your internet connection? And you don't honestly think you are entirely anonymous to the commercial entities that own Bike Forums and advertise on them, do you?

    Some of the wealthiest companies in the western world are virtually unknown to the average punter, but they are very, very good at tracking people and their habits.

    Everything you do creates an identity trail of some sort that gets converted to digital data. You can either accept it and get on with living your life, or be paranoid about it.
    This all seems like a good argument for trying to preserve what little privacy we do have. I don't think it's paranoid to want and expect the right to lead a private life. The laws that protect our privacy need to be strengthened, rather than people just surrendering their rights. Of all people, I would expect you to get this!


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    Everything you do creates an identity trail of some sort that gets converted to digital data. You can either accept it and get on with living your life, or be paranoid about it.
    I choose to limit the amount of data and its potential misuse. Just because many of my activities can be tracked doesn't mean that I can't have a substantial impact on limiting the degree of that. And with the prevalence of data collection in modern times there's a lot to be said for placing regulations on how the data can be retained and distributed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year
    A total of 3,581,039 lives lost in auto accidents since 1899. Incredible.

  23. #23
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
    The information can still be misused. I have no reason for blanket-trust of all individuals in law enforcement! We need regulations on how long the information can be retained on citizens that are not charged with a crime.

    But for me personally it is not an issue - until bicycles are required to be registered and display a tag.
    "I Will Give Up My Unregistered Bicycle When They Peel My Cold Dead Fingers From Around It." Eh?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
    A total of 3,581,039 lives lost in auto accidents since 1899. Incredible.
    I read that as 3.5 million. We lose that many every couple years.

  25. #25
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
    I read that as 3.5 million. We lose that many every couple years.
    More like every 3 years world wide. In the US is dropped to around 36,000 annually.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
    RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
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    "Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
    Aluminum: barely a hundred
    Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
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