This is how you sell riding the bus.
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Suburbs are not permanently unbikeable and inconvenient to transit use. There just needs to be transit lines and bike paths/lanes available so that people have the option of leaving the car parked instead of sitting in motor-congestion when growth begins to push the limits of automotive infrastructure in the area.
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I thought this was pretty funny, and sent it to a few of my more devoutly car-centric friends, the ones who equate bus-riding with dire poverty and/or granola. Upon viewing, they claimed they didn't get it.
#29
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Funny, during the earlier and much larger bike boom of the '60s-'70s, most cycling took place in those supposedly "unbikeable" suburbs. Even our resident curmudgeon cat likely rode many a mile through those "unbikeable" suburbs around Philly. Surprisingly enough, we did it without bike lanes or bike paths.
Do you think most people today (not bikeforums denizens) feel safe or comfortable cycling for transportation in these suburbs?
Even back in 1973, do you think very many people felt comfortable riding on those streets, other than young, fit, and arguably foolhardy followers of the bike boom? Keep in mind, we were all like 18 back then! Now we're going into our 60s. How long will we feel good about riding on the multi-lane highways of the suburbs?
Give us bike lanes and bike paths!
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Public transit is a hard sell for people who have other options. It is a fact that majority of bus users here in the suburbs do so because of financial reasons, they simply can't afford a car or they own a car but are trying to save money on gas and maintenance so they take a bus. . . .
The bus does have some annoyances too, but overall it is far more pleasant than a trip by car. And I do love going by light rail or commuter rail when I can.
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Some of the suburban transit agencies here (San Francisco Bay Area) do have plush buses like that. They even come with free wi-fi.
#32
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EDIT: actually, you're right, they pulled some off the streets on the coldest days. However I ride a streetcar once or twice a week depending on which route I choose and they were always running when I opted for them.
Last edited by cooker; 02-10-15 at 01:15 PM.
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Funny, during the earlier and much larger bike boom of the '60s-'70s, most cycling took place in those supposedly "unbikeable" suburbs. Even our resident curmudgeon cat likely rode many a mile through those "unbikeable" suburbs around Philly. Surprisingly enough, we did it without bike lanes or bike paths.
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Funny, during the earlier and much larger bike boom of the '60s-'70s, most cycling took place in those supposedly "unbikeable" suburbs. Even our resident curmudgeon cat likely rode many a mile through those "unbikeable" suburbs around Philly. Surprisingly enough, we did it without bike lanes or bike paths.
I had been cycling for 18 years before I encountered my first bike path ... that was a short, rather pointless path in Winnipeg which I rarely used. And it was another 13 years (including 5-6 years being car free and a whole lot of cycling) before I encountered my first bike lane ... that was in Canberra.
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#35
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Back in the day we never rode on bike paths (cause there weren't any), but now that we've got them we ride on them every day, happily segregated from cars.
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There were roughly half as many cars then. Do you think a doubling of the cars could make a difference in the bikability of the suburbs?
Do you think most people today (not bikeforums denizens) feel safe or comfortable cycling for transportation in these suburbs?
Even back in 1973, do you think very many people felt comfortable riding on those streets, other than young, fit, and arguably foolhardy followers of the bike boom? Keep in mind, we were all like 18 back then! Now we're going into our 60s. How long will we feel good about riding on the multi-lane highways of the suburbs?
Give us bike lanes and bike paths!
Do you think most people today (not bikeforums denizens) feel safe or comfortable cycling for transportation in these suburbs?
Even back in 1973, do you think very many people felt comfortable riding on those streets, other than young, fit, and arguably foolhardy followers of the bike boom? Keep in mind, we were all like 18 back then! Now we're going into our 60s. How long will we feel good about riding on the multi-lane highways of the suburbs?
Give us bike lanes and bike paths!
As far as those multi-lane expressways: those weren't built in the west, other than in SoCal, until the late seventies and later. Our DOT's were busy building freeways in the '60s and '70s, not freeway-like surface streets. One nice thing about them is they do two things: they calm the parallel streets and they often have decent shoulders (if one is inclined to ride in such a noisy, smelly place).
Where bike-specific infrastructure is well done and not merely a way to get cyclists out of the way, I'm all for it. Unfortunately, very little is well done. Give me quality road standards and follow them!
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True, we are an ageing population. However, oddly enough, the fastest growing demographic on bikes is...people in their fifties and sixties. I suppose they're the same ones who were riding forty and fifty years ago, but my experience with them on the road is they aren't terrified at the prospect of sharing the road with motorists. I'm sure most of them pick their roads with some care, but then so do motorists.
As far as those multi-lane expressways: those weren't built in the west, other than in SoCal, until the late seventies and later. Our DOT's were busy building freeways in the '60s and '70s, not freeway-like surface streets. One nice thing about them is they do two things: they calm the parallel streets and they often have decent shoulders (if one is inclined to ride in such a noisy, smelly place).
Where bike-specific infrastructure is well done and not merely a way to get cyclists out of the way, I'm all for it. Unfortunately, very little is well done. Give me quality road standards and follow them!
As far as those multi-lane expressways: those weren't built in the west, other than in SoCal, until the late seventies and later. Our DOT's were busy building freeways in the '60s and '70s, not freeway-like surface streets. One nice thing about them is they do two things: they calm the parallel streets and they often have decent shoulders (if one is inclined to ride in such a noisy, smelly place).
Where bike-specific infrastructure is well done and not merely a way to get cyclists out of the way, I'm all for it. Unfortunately, very little is well done. Give me quality road standards and follow them!
Absolutely!!
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#38
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That may well be true in the States, but there is some excellent cycling infrastructure here in Europe. I don't think the answer for Americans is just to give in. You have to demand that things be done right if you ever want to see massive numbers of people cycling.
Last edited by Ekdog; 02-11-15 at 02:12 AM.
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I ride the bus regularly, and frequently read or catch up on email while doing it. I'm not sure I'd say I'm in "the suburbs" exactly. I don't see how that would matter. I also don't do it for "fun and entertainment". I'm one of those weirdos that use public transportation for transportation.
edit: I'm a software architect and could easily afford to own cars.
edit: I'm a software architect and could easily afford to own cars.
--J
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#40
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A new bike lane is being built here at the moment, and some of the members of our cycling coalition have been out taking photographs that make it clear that the construction company is cutting corners, so we've been putting the heat on the politicians, insisting that the work be done properly. We have to be on top of them all the time if we want something decent. You can't just throw up your hands and say, "Oh, well, if they can't do this right, we'll just have to give in and carry on riding in the streets with high-speed traffic." With that kind of attitude, you'll never get past a two or three percent modal share, very few women will get on a bike and no one will dare let their children cycle to school or anywhere else.
#41
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I had been cycling for 18 years before I encountered my first bike path ... that was a short, rather pointless path in Winnipeg which I rarely used. And it was another 13 years (including 5-6 years being car free and a whole lot of cycling) before I encountered my first bike lane ... that was in Canberra.
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And yet, I've managed to cycle 150,000+ km without.
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#44
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When I discovered the beach bike path. I considered the bike path on the weekends to be very dangerous, more so than the city streets.
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Neither did I when I was a kid. I was riding along the most heavily trafficked road on my side of the state daily from 2nd grade on, and pedaling far enough that my Dad was surprised when I told him where I rode as a kid, this past year.
When I discovered the beach bike path. I considered the bike path to be very dangerous, more so than the city streets.
When I discovered the beach bike path. I considered the bike path to be very dangerous, more so than the city streets.
My school also had a bicycle program, and I've still got the instruction manual. Again, we were taught the rules of the road (the bicycle instruction manual was based off the drivers education/highway act information) as well as some tips and tricks for bicycle handling.
But those 150,000 km I referred to were as an adult. I didn't encounter my first bicycle paths and lanes until I was well into adulthood and had been cycling for years. In fact, I had been a member of bicycle forums, and had seen people talking about bicycle lanes for a few years before I saw my first one. And I recall that my first reaction to it was "Oh how cute! A lane for bicycles!"
And yes, that short, pointless bicycle path I referred to ... one of the reasons I rarely rode it was because I considered it more dangerous than the road that ran along side it. The road was wide and fairly quiet with a reasonably low speed limit. They also closed sections of that road to motorised traffic on Sundays ... only non-motorised traffic allowed. But the path twisted and turned between tall bushes and trees, and thus had several blind curves ... you couldn't ride more than about 10 km/h for fear of coming around one of those blind curves and hitting people. And of course there were pedestrians, dog walkers, children running to and fro, groups of little old ladies standing just around those blind corners bird watching, rollerbladers, and all sorts out there. I could cycle the road at a decent pace without a single negative encounter with motorised vehicles ... or I could try to negotiate the obstacle course that was the bicycle path.
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#46
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Good one!
I've always said that public transit needs to be sold in a positive manner. Someone posted a while back that if you put a garbage can in the street and ask people to deposit their bottles, it fills up twice as fast if the container had lights and sound for positive reinforcement.
Today's buses should offer more for their passengers like free wifi, discount coupons, free transfers on weekends, gas coupons if you buy a monthly bus pass. There's just no imagination to make it a better experience.
I've always said that public transit needs to be sold in a positive manner. Someone posted a while back that if you put a garbage can in the street and ask people to deposit their bottles, it fills up twice as fast if the container had lights and sound for positive reinforcement.
Today's buses should offer more for their passengers like free wifi, discount coupons, free transfers on weekends, gas coupons if you buy a monthly bus pass. There's just no imagination to make it a better experience.
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I don't need a whole lot of fluff ... I need substance. And buses running 40 minutes apart isn't particularly substantial.
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Good one!
I've always said that public transit needs to be sold in a positive manner. Someone posted a while back that if you put a garbage can in the street and ask people to deposit their bottles, it fills up twice as fast if the container had lights and sound for positive reinforcement.
Today's buses should offer more for their passengers like free wifi, discount coupons, free transfers on weekends, gas coupons if you buy a monthly bus pass. There's just no imagination to make it a better experience.
I've always said that public transit needs to be sold in a positive manner. Someone posted a while back that if you put a garbage can in the street and ask people to deposit their bottles, it fills up twice as fast if the container had lights and sound for positive reinforcement.
Today's buses should offer more for their passengers like free wifi, discount coupons, free transfers on weekends, gas coupons if you buy a monthly bus pass. There's just no imagination to make it a better experience.
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What is needed is an appeal to the constitutional spirit of the US. not popular sovereignty. Only once we accept that automotivism has impaired the freedom to use other modes of transportation will the ethic of freedom be invoked to require bike lanes on all roads, bike paths through motor-free areas, etc. Until then, automotivism is trying to be the default totalitarian culture by insisting that people are indeed free to choose other modes but they just don't want to.
The only reason people don't want to is because they've become conditioned to accept they only have one choice. As one friend told me, "driving is just something you do. It's not optional." I believe this is how most US residents view driving and why they view car-free reforms as futile. It's totalitarianism at the level of individual minds despite freedom and democracy at the level of governmental ideology.
Last edited by tandempower; 02-13-15 at 10:23 AM.
#50
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There's a populism culture right now in the US that is threatening cycling growth by pretending to support it via petitions, fundraising, etc. What they do is, instead of insisting on bike infrastructure as a fundamental need, they promote the idea that if enough people show enough support (via signatures, money contributions, etc.), then (and only then) will action be taken to expand the infrastructure. What this does is, by default, give power to those who fail to support cycling by counting their silence as it fails to contribute to the number of signatures or monetary contributions for these campaigns.
What is needed is an appeal to the constitutional spirit of the US. not popular sovereignty. Only once we accept that automotivism has impaired the freedom to use other modes of transportation will the ethic of freedom be invoked to require bike lanes on all roads, bike paths through motor-free areas, etc. Until then, automotivism is trying to be the default totalitarian culture by insisting that people are indeed free to choose other modes but they just don't want to.
The only reason people don't want to is because they've become conditioned to accept they only have one choice. As one friend told me, "driving is just something you do. It's not optional." I believe this is how most US residents view driving and why they view car-free reforms as futile. It's totalitarianism at the level of individual minds despite freedom and democracy at the level of governmental ideology.
What is needed is an appeal to the constitutional spirit of the US. not popular sovereignty. Only once we accept that automotivism has impaired the freedom to use other modes of transportation will the ethic of freedom be invoked to require bike lanes on all roads, bike paths through motor-free areas, etc. Until then, automotivism is trying to be the default totalitarian culture by insisting that people are indeed free to choose other modes but they just don't want to.
The only reason people don't want to is because they've become conditioned to accept they only have one choice. As one friend told me, "driving is just something you do. It's not optional." I believe this is how most US residents view driving and why they view car-free reforms as futile. It's totalitarianism at the level of individual minds despite freedom and democracy at the level of governmental ideology.
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