Originally Posted by Roody

This is depressing, but gives me a lot to think about. My grandson will be sixteen in a few weeks. He seems to be ambivalent about bikes and cars. Sometimes he says he just wants to get his license but, like your kids, he thinks bikes are a good idea for society. Yesterday he told me he's getting a new bike for his birthday and he'll be doing a lot of riding this year--including his school commute. Remember, all kids are very changable and subject to peer pressure--which could account for some of what they told you in class.

I think you're both too pessimistic and too optimistic. Too pessimistic to think that just because the kids are off bikes right now, they will stay that way throughout their lives. Too optimistic to think that the world we're leaving them will allow unlimited transportation choices like our generation has had. Maybe they won't want to ride bikes...maybe they will have to ride them.

These are just initial reactions to your post--I will need more time to think it through thoroughly.

Originally Posted by Roody

I rarely agree with tandempower's POV, but I greatly admire his thoughtfulness, thoroughness, and attirude of respect for others on the forum. His posts are not spoofs or satires. Rather, he has spent a lot of time giving us well composed answers. I think he deserves some answer as to the content of his posts, not your hastily misperceived judgment of his character--which you have no real way of knowing. If the posts are too difficult for you to understand or if you choose not to respond to their content, you might want to use the forum's ignore function rather than make muddled inferences about his personality or temperament.

Originally Posted by Machka

I didn't say anything about his personality or temperament. I'm talking about the actual words in his posts. If you watch the spoofs, they use the same sort of words. Political speak.

Originally Posted by bragi

I had a slow period in class today, and I informally polled some of my 13-14 year old students about bicycles today. 1/3 of them have never ridden a bicycle. Several have used a bicycle to get to school, but only one does so every day. All of them think bicycles are very uncool, even the one who rides his bike to school regularly. When I asked if helmets had anything to do with it, they said not really, they just thought the whole bike experience looked kind of stupid. All of them think bicycles are a good thing for society generally, but it's more of an adult activity as far as they're concerned, and not something they're all that interested in for themselves. Over 2/3 of them did not imagine that they'd ever ride a bicycle when they grew up, not even in college. They supported my own bicycle riding, but this was insincere; I know they mock me over it behind my back. (But then, they mock me behind my back over any number of things...)

The results of this probably invalid poll tell me tha in about 10-15 years the bicycle infrastructure we're building will be the exclusive domain of a few old cranks who hate cars, nerdy bicycle enthusiasts in Lycra, and poor people. It'll be kind of like it was 10 years ago, only with more, mostly unused, bike lanes.

Originally Posted by Roody

People use political speak to talk about politics. Just like we use bicycle speak to talk about bikes. If the political speak intimidates or bores you, you might want to hang out more in the bicycle speak threads.

Originally Posted by Machka

I'm trying. Could have sworn this was a cycling forum not a political forum.

And it doesn't intimidate or bore me ... it amuses me. Makes me laugh.

Originally Posted by Roody

That's actually a disrespectful attitude. People are not posting here to make you laugh. They are trying to discuss issues that they think are important, interesting, or useful. If you don't share those values, why do you find it necessary to tease or mock others? It seems like it would be easier for you to ignore or silently enjoy the conversation.

For example, there are threads on some of the racing bike subforums that I find amusing. The racers are very serious about issues that mean nothing to me, and they use funny words to describe their opinions. Sometimes I read the thread just to get a chuckle. But I never post on the thread to tease or mock the racers. I don't think they have a character flaw just because they are so intense about something I think is trivial. Bikeforums is a very diverse forum, and there is someplace for almost any cyclist to find a stimulationg conversation. Whining and mocking posts are never very interesting or amusing, however.

Originally Posted by Machka

Bikeforums is, first and foremost, for entertainment. And it does provide that.

Originally Posted by Roody

Actually, traffic statistics suggest that car-bike crash rates go down when more cyclists appear in a given city.

Originally Posted by Roody

Maybe they won't want to ride bikes...maybe they will have to ride them.

Originally Posted by bragi

I had a slow period in class today, and I informally polled some of my 13-14 year old students about bicycles today. 1/3 of them have never ridden a bicycle. Several have used a bicycle to get to school, but only one does so every day. All of them think bicycles are very uncool, even the one who rides his bike to school regularly. When I asked if helmets had anything to do with it, they said not really, they just thought the whole bike experience looked kind of stupid. All of them think bicycles are a good thing for society generally, but it's more of an adult activity as far as they're concerned, and not something they're all that interested in for themselves. Over 2/3 of them did not imagine that they'd ever ride a bicycle when they grew up, not even in college. They supported my own bicycle riding, but this was insincere; I know they mock me over it behind my back. (But then, they mock me behind my back over any number of things...)

The results of this probably invalid poll tell me tha in about 10-15 years the bicycle infrastructure we're building will be the exclusive domain of a few old cranks who hate cars, nerdy bicycle enthusiasts in Lycra, and poor people. It'll be kind of like it was 10 years ago, only with more, mostly unused, bike lanes.

Originally Posted by Machka

Why would a person have to ride a bicycle?

Originally Posted by Machka

Why would a person have to ride a bicycle?

Originally Posted by bragi

One needs to take the responses of tweens with a grain of salt; a lot depends on what mood they're in. It's a very parochial, self-involved age. And it's not like most of them like the idea of driving cars all that much, either. I kind of suspect that they ultimately prefer the arrangement that most of them have now: using parents as their personal Uber driver. (David Beckham, 2015).

Originally Posted by Robert C

It was sad that our school held a drawing with the prizes being some bicycles. Over half of the winners did not know how to ride a bicycle. All but one (total of 6) went home in the back of PUs'

Originally Posted by t x

FWIW, I was out and about today in LA and saw more people riding bicycles than I can recall in any time previous. What's most striking about that is that today was a (rare) rainy day here, and yet people of all types were out riding. I saw road bikes, (dutch style) city bikes, mountain bikes, a fat bike, hybrids, fixed gear track bikes and a number of frankenbikes. If bicycling's moment has passed, you wouldn't be able to tell in my neighborhood.

Originally Posted by bragi

My observations are not at all quantitative, but here they are:

I've noticed in the last several months that, while there are still quite a lot of bicyclists around town, their numbers have decreased a little. This may have much to do with the fact that fuel is a lot less expensive than it's been in a very long time, but there may be some cultural factors in play as well. There are still a lot of people who bicycle: poor college students, young parents with toddlers, Freds who use commutes as training rides, and odd, cheap, car-free types like myself who ride mostly because they think it's more practical than driving. The group that's been missing lately are the young, 20's-early 30's more fashion-conscious people who, a few years ago, adopted bicycling as part of an urban lifestyle. As far as I can tell, the vast majority of these people have moved on from bicycles to tiny cars or transit. (Maybe they've noticed that it's easier to look good if you haven't been riding up and down steep hills in the rain.) I haven't seen a fixie or a Dutch bike, or even a well-dressed cyclist, in months if not years. Is it just me, or has bicycling gone back to being something that only uncool people do? (Not that I mind...)