rhm

On the 300k I did a couple weeks ago, I started fading near the end. There was about ten miles to go, plenty of time, and I'd certainly eaten enough along the way, but my energy level had dropped uncomfortably low and I just didn't feel right. I think I know what it feels like to 'bonk,' and it didn't feel like I was about to bonk. But, as I say, I just didn't feel right. The guy I was riding with suggested I suck down one of the gels he'd brought, and I, figuring what the heck, did. I can't describe the flavor or the texture; it was new to me. I drank a lot of water. We got on our bikes again and finished the ride. And then, after standing around and snacking on potato chips, I rode home, feeling fine.

I don't know, but I think that gel helped me keep going.

Last week I was ordering something from Nashbar anyway and, on a whim, added a box of gels to my order. It bumped me up the free shipping, so the whole box of 24 cost me five or six bucks.

The directions on the box say to eat one 45 minutes before starting an athletic activity; another, 15 minutes before; and then another every 30 minutes throughout the activity. . Okay, there is no way I'm eating that many of the things. But I will stuff a few into spare corners in my handlebar bag, just in case.

Anyway, my question is, do you guys use these things? And if so, how?

Machka 

I use them as emergency energy in much the same way as you did with the one your friend gave you.

10 Wheels

Tried Gels when I first started riding,,

Felt Nothing from them.

Waste of $$ is what I Think.

intransit1217

The goo I use in emergencies, with water. Because it's already half liquid, the body can process them quickly. But they are so low on the carb count you have to have one as directed. That makes them silly for any kind of real energy.

Otoh, clif bars and pro bars, I like for the sustained energy because they are around 250- 380 cal. But you have to remember the old adage. Drink before you're thirsty, eat before you're hungry.

Gels are like goo. Low carb. These are good for just sucking on to help distract you or maybe just a cyclist kind of candy. Read the labels.

So far I like the Clif and pro-bar products. Hammer gel chocolate. and at least three flavors of shot-blocs.

I have yet to try any of the electro-tabs.

rhm

Oh, yeah, the electro-tabs, I forgot about those. I have used Nuun tabs sometimes. I have no bad experience with them, but can't say for sure whether they've helped.

gpburdell

Coming from a running background, gels and similar stuff can be handy for long endurance events such as marathons. Sometimes helpful for a half-marathon and generally superfluous for anything shorter. Basically if you're not going far enough to impact your body's glycogen stores there's usually no need for them. I'd expect the same to hold true for cycling; until you're going to burn 2000kcal or more you probably don't need them. Plus if you're drinking stuff like Gatorade, the carbs in the drink essentially serve the same purpose and can reduce any need for gels (which are best taken with just water). AND if you're taking breaks, real food is probably a better choice anyway if you're GI system can tolerate it.


Oh and that recommendation by the gel maker for when and how often to use them? That's just to sell more gels.

intransit1217

I use gatorade though probably not the best thing on the market. If I'm just tooling around getting miles, water is fine for me. But if it's a fast ride or there will be any kind of hard efforts, I like one bottle water, one electrolyte, which I hit immediately after the effort to help ready for the next.

ThermionicScott 

+1. I keep some of that stuff in the handlebar bag for emergencies, but much prefer to eat real food as long as I can.

RR3

Successfully managing your gut is key beyond a certain time on the bike.

I make my own gel and put it into hammer flasks. Sometimes use it, sometimes not.

There was about a 60 mile stretch into the 213 mile control on a 400k last week and I was feeling 18 years old again but instead of fanning a 52x12, it was a 46x12. We all know that feeling. Sure, I knew I was going a bit too fast but it felt so darned good to be alive. Time stands still on these kind of rides and transforms us to little kids again. Ten miles before the control or thereabouts there was a dinky little climb in Lenartsville Pennsy or something and I knew I was running on fumes, the homemade gel made the difference. I try to stay away from gel and fructose but I find 100-150 Kcals total mostly carbs (I'm a low carb rider) per hour riding at a moderate pace is more than enough for me but I keep my heart rate down to 120 bph and not much higher.....totally aerobic.

znomit

I like a coffee flavoured caffeine gel or two to get me through the night. Otherwise simple sugars in handy sized portions are good...

bmthom.gis

I don't like too many gels. They are generally not needed for any short ride (though I always see my friends sucking them down every 10-15 miles). They work well enough an as "emergency pick me up" but I would rather eat real food. peanut butter sandwiches are a favorite...for a few hours anyway. Granola bars are also good. In general i just try and stay away from those "fortified" snacks except for maybe once or twice in a century.

As for drink, I like to start with one bottle of water and one of diluted coconut water. If gatorade is available during the ride, I will drink a bottle of 1/2 gatorade 1/2 water every other rest stop. I also "camel up" - as my old scout master used to call it - at every rest stop. This is drinking any water that is left in my bottles and another full bottle before filling them both and moving on.

rhm

Thanks, everyone, for your input!

I'm still waffling about doing the Hightstown 400k this Saturday; about 280 miles all told, since I'll be riding from home. It'll be my first 400k (if I do it). Oh, heck, I'll probably do it. I'll be bringing some NUUN tablets, Lara bars and Cliff bars. I'm also going to get some bananas, make some boiled potatoes, maybe the Lim rice cakes that @RR3 suggested in this post.

I hope to do the whole ride without using any of the gels / goo I bought, but I will stuff a few into free spaces in the bag.

Question: how many gels would you bring, for emergency purpose?

RR3

RHM.....I am also doing the 400k in NJ on Saturday and thinking equipment and food now.

How much gel? How much food? The stops are at an Inn and a pizzeria, so, what to bring is critical for me since I plan to ride moderately brisk. The Inn sounds like a great stop for food if you wish to make a long stop.

Normally, it would be easy but I am taking a totally different bike this time and I do not stop for a sitdown meal on a 400k. Maybe one sitdown on a 600K. Instead of my rando bike where I have no real limitations on storage of food, I am taking my other bike on narrower tires as means of training my derrière or really I am punishing it for the two weeks off the bike due to saddle sores. I already have a couple 400k rides in this year, so, I wanted to mix it up bikewise.

Here are my calculations/estimations....

Energy expenditure = basal metabolic for 16 hours plus energy for the distance and hills ≈ 9,800 kCal. I plan on an average heart rate of 115 bpm and power output average of 150 watts riding at around 17 mph average (there is only about 4,000 feet climbing)

I plan to ride at a pace where only approxmately 60% of the energy will be fat derived and thus, I will need about 4,000 kCal from liver glucose, muscle glycogen, eating on the bike and glycogenesis. Assuming liver and working muscles to have 1,600 kCal, I will need to eat and process more than 2,400 (assuming I do not wish to cannabalize muscle protein...). So, 150 kCals per hour just to keep from bonking. These are conservative estimates as I probably burn 70% fat at that level and I might store more glycogen.


Pint of chocolate milk.....400 cals
Small salted cashews ....200 cals
Two Lim cakes (if I have time to make them) 600 cals (otherwise, another dosage of chocolate milk and cashews)
4 bottles with fairly dilute waxy maize or maltodextrin 1000 cals (might bring an extra 400 kCal of powder)
2 small bottles of watery Gel in flasks as reserve.....probably will need one of them. 700 cals
2-4 more bottles of water for a total of around 150-200 oz. Drink when thirsty. If I lose 2-4 lbs, the fluid intake was perfect for me. If I gain weight, I drank too much.

I'll eat a lot (maybe 250 cal/hr on the bike) from 4 am until the temperature rises at around 9:30 am or when the temps are over 80F at about that time and cut back on food a bit to less than 100 cals per hour or thereabouts if it is really going to be 86F. The other alternative in the middle of the heat will be to slowdown and eat more. Heat, exercise, and eating don't work well. I can do two of them at once.

Ok, I have my eating plan down. Time to rig the lights.

unterhausen

I have a limited tolerance for goo. Probably 2 packets on the bike before I can't choke them down any more. Maybe a few more if I stop and take my time. I stopped carrying them.

Carbonfiberboy 

I ride fairly hard - used to finish those in the top 10%. I weighed ~160 when I used to do them and rode a fairly light bike. I carry 14 oz. of my malto/whey mix per 100 miles, including what's in the bottle at the ride start. So that's ~1750 kcal/100 miles without extras, but that's not how I figure it. I don't bring anything else because controls are usually at places where one can buy stuff. I don't use a calorie budget per se, rather I eat to hunger. I frequently don't use all the powder but it's nice to have.

I use one liter bottle for water and one 24 oz. bottle for the food drink. That works on most frames. There are some brevets where there's no water for 100 miles, and on those I use a Camelbak. Shouldn't be a problem in NJ.

intransit1217

*agog at you people who can do that*

RISKDR1

I climbed Mt Whitney (14,499 elev and 22 miles round trip) as a day hike and ate about 25 of them. Really. I also ate a sandwich. The 2500 calories and the sandwich was not enough fuel theoretically so I probably burned a lot of fat. In your case it may have been the gel or it may have been the hydration the water gave you. It is hard to tell. The gels only provide around 100 calories. If you were dehydrated the gel would not have done you any good without the water.

RR3

Carbonfibreboy.....as you know there is a temperature and power output dependency as to how much one can consume. Although some studies say more than 70% VO2 max causes digestion problems, there is no real formula but I guess we all have to learn our tolerances and I am on the conservative side of eating and not riding too hard. I am going to test this limits Saturday, I'll let you know if I puke. Nausea and diarrhea are reported by up to 50% of marathoners and on a 400k recently I was stunned that a 10,000 KM per year Randonneur who does many 1200k Randonnees said to me that he throws up on all Brevets of 400k and more. Another rider said he often throws up. Never happened to me. I suppose learning our respective limits are worth seeking especially since GI issues are a significant cause of quitting a ride. It sounds you are also moderate in your consumption of liquids and fuels on the bike. The controls on Saturday's 400k are not the typical Mini Marts. Two times at a Biker Cafe/Bar/Restaurant that has great burgers and meals but it probably will be closed when I am going thru, a Pizzeria at 200K, and then at around 360K control, a Mini market. I'm an old school Randonneur and thus, multiple long meal stops are not in my plans. I'll just carry stuff to eat this time.

On a 200k ride recently some of the riders were eating hotdogs (plural) and apple pie with ice cream with coke chasers. Throwing 2500 kCal down the hatch all at once does not work for me. The thought makes me gag.

Over-hydration can be a problem leading to hyponatremia and can cause GI issues and more serious medcial concerns (outlined in some of the links)

Reasearch suggests that endurance athletes should drink when thirsty and nibble all day long and also lower intake before big climbs and/or ride easier during the hot part of the day. Drinking when not thirsty to excess is easy to do and it can make you puffy all over and the risk is not just a temporary weight gain during a long Brevet.

Anyway, I hope this helps someone on a long hot summer ride.....

Food-dependent, exercise-induced gastrointestinal distress
Gastrointestinal Complaints During Exercise: Prevalence, Etiology, and Nutritional Recommendations
Over-hydration - Too much of a good thing? Succeed! Sports Nutrition
GASTROINTESTINAL DISTRESS
Exercise-Associated Hyponatremia
Waterlogged: Seven clear symptoms of Exercise-Associated Hyponatremia

Carbonfiberboy 

Sounds like you have a good handle on it. As they say at Hammer, "Less is more." I've never thrown up or eaten a "meal" on a long distance ride. How funny, the only mini-mart at 360k. And how tough for the participants and the cafes, to have to get cards signed and water and restrooms without buying anything. That's usually a no-no.

If you do overeat a bit, I call it "sloshy belly." That's what it feels like. That's very common and really bad because you can start to bonk simply because your stomach osmolality is too high and nothing's going across the stomach wall. The cure is to stop eating, take 2 Endurolytes, and then sips of plain water every few minutes until you get relief. That's why it's so important to have plain water aboard and to only eat a little at a time.

A local maxim is "there is no slower speed than stopped." Best to keep control times short and keep rolling.

unterhausen

I have gone to mostly carb powder/protein powder mix because I can still get calories without actually eating anything. I had trouble keeping up with my carbs before that switch. One thing I have noticed is that when I'm not in good shape I have more trouble eating.

I'm not really sure what makes me throw up on long rides, but fortunately it hasn't happened too many times. Overnights have sometimes been a problem for me.

RR3

Thanks for the tip on Endurolite. Never heard of it but will check it out. I just bought some Anti-Fatigue caps but probably won't use them....seems they are electrolyes. from the label...can't remember who recommended them and I just got them from Amazon. I have some electrolytes tablets but truth be told, that is why I just eat salty cashews and chocolate milk and even potato chips once or twice on a longer Brevet....for the overall electrolytes plus it is an indulgence well deserved. I digest lactose and galcactose in milk well. Good to know how to undo the sloshy belly in case it happens to me. I'll check out those caps.

I think I read that the NJ controls will have volunteers but not sure.

RR3

Gastric empyting is impaired with efforts above 70% of Vo2 max from what I have read. Heat, diet, and output can damage the gut lining resulting in a toxicity from what I have read. NSAIDs are also a no-no. Below 70% VO2 max, I am burning mostly fat and don't need to eat a lot-this is based upon lactate blood testing and knowing how little I can eat on rides if I keep the efforts down. Win/win except this pacing strategy usually does not work riding with others who ride really hard up hills and then kind of slow on the flats. I find myself working too hard trying to keep up on hills and then coasting on the flats. If I just keep the pace moderate, I finish not too tired and feel good.

I developed a slight interest in this GI distress topic last summer when I tried to hang with some Charly Miller and R60 types in 90 degree heat on a something like a 5 mile climb 200k and probably a mere 6.5 hours into a 600k after eating too much at a control with tons of food provided and I obliged. In fact, I pigged out. I got a bit nauseous on the hot climb. My legs were totally shelled otherwise but that is nothing new. Stopped for almost an hour at a cafe and talked with some ladies and drank some cold beverages. They thought I was crazy. Felt better but the nausea did not completely subside over the entire Brevet. Only time this ever happened. Not sick .....I would reconsider randonneuring if I felt this way often. Did some reading but since it is not an urgent issue such as "I throw up on every ride", GI distress and puking avoidanec techniques is not my forte. My lesson learned was not to exceed my established limits and that I needed to let them ride away and that I always just need to ride my ride. I know that Fructose bloats me and I avoid it. I know heat bothers me so I have to slow down, etc. Some gels and Goo have fructose in them, which is one reason I make my own. I also have taken many of the supplements for years that Greenfield mentions and I do not eat wheat and other grains much at all.

Throwing up on a ride can't be fun....There could be someone reading this mess who gleans something useful from the following links.

Gastrointestinal Complaints During Exercise: Prevalence, Etiology, and Nutritional Recommendations

Shedding Some Light on the Leaky Gut <> Exercise Connection. Plus: 20+ Things You Should or Shouldn't Do to Protect and Restore the Integrity of Your Intestinal Wall - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

How To Fix Your Gut

Avoiding Gastrointestinal Distress - Triathlon Plus | TriRadar.com

JISSN | Full text | Food-dependent, exercise-induced gastrointestinal distress

RR3

Just to close the loop, it was hot on yesterday's 400k and I only drank 2 bottles on each 60 mile leg in the middle portion of the ride. I got to a WaWa minimart towards the end of the ride and they had two twenty oz bottles of Coke for $1.99. Running on fumes, I took the crack so to speak and had some GI distrubances of course. I did stick to the rest of the plan in terms of power and heart rate but I did eat more than planned and set a Personal Best time for a 400K. I also rode with two really nice (powerful) riders who came down from NH.......afterwards I found out that one of them had a sibling who won a gold medal in the Marathon and the other did Charly Miller time and they ate and drank a similar amount (not so much but just steady and consistent)....when they ate, I ate, etc. I think she had homemade cookies, trail mix, and beef jerky. Anyways, I did pay a bit of price for overindulging on coke and maybe eating more than ususual. No nausea, just tons flatulence after the ride. Probably the coke.....I never drink coke. I drank 216 oz fluids (it was 85-87F) and consumed around 3400 kCal all day....no breakfast before the ride....works out to about 260 cals per hour on the ride and I did eat those two flasks of homemade chocolate gel, 250 cals per bottle, two cokes, and two salty nutty energy bars. I only lost 1% body weight, so, the fluid intake was perfect. This is the most I have ever eaten per hour. My intent was to push my limits. I don't think I could have consumed more in that heat (hot for me).

The NJ Princeton RBA had volunteers at each stop with water and all sorts of food. Unbelievable support....I was not expecting that!!

To the OP....find your limits.

RR3

Almost forgot I did try the two Anti-Fatigue caps twice.

I think they might help or it could be all in my head.

The course only had 5400 feet of climbing but there were a lot of barely noticible gentle ups and downs (1-2%) that unless you have a Garmin with elevation profile and I also had a power meter. Let's call it entertainment. You know .....ride the "down" parts a little faster (say only needing 70-100 watts) and the upwards a little slower (say needing 250-350 watts and sometimes more). Well, my legs started to feel a bit funny after maybe 5 hours and these Caps seemed to help. If it is placebo, I'll take it. I forgot about them later in the ride. Since I bought and paid for those things, I will try them again. The mind is a powerful thing.....$30 says they work. LOL

unterhausen

one time I had a really good deli sandwich that was too big and I couldn't stop eating. I really suffered from that, it was about 30 miles from the finish and that was just torture. I know better, I have always preferred to under-eat. I have also had gastric distress from Pepsi, so now I prefer Sprite or Root Beer. I usually pay more for drinks sweetened with sugar, but that isn't available most of the time

There apparently is a placebo effect for both food and enduralytes. If I am cramping, and take an enduralyte, the cramping goes away immediately. Too bad I forgot to take any with me yesterday. There have been studies done that confirm just swishing sports drink and spitting it out is just as effective as drinking it. I don't usually spit food out, because I assume it's going to have a longer term positive effect, but the immediate effect is a bonus.