jhaddad8

I bought a Miyata 310 off cl last spring and have since used it for two 200ks. I've concluded that I really like road cycling and randonneuring and want to spend some money making the bike better for more and longer rides. My goal is to complete a full SR series and R12 in the next ~12 months or so. My goal with this improvement is to improve comfort, speed a little and lighting situation for winter 200k's and rides over 200k.

I'll attach some pictures at the end, but let me first describe my current setup.
Shimano Claris compact double crank 46-34
6 speed mtb free wheel 14 - 34
27 in wheels of unknown origin probably not special in any way
continental gator skin tires
I just replaced the single pivot cantilever brakes with generic duel pivots cantilevers
A decent quality tactical flash light that I have a handle bar mount for, but since, my currently handle bar bag is big, I need to mount the light on the side of the handle bars in a spot where it limits some of my hand positions. It lasts 2 hrs on high power.

My current plan is to go all out buying a new wheel set. I'm thinking of getting hand built 700c wheels with a front generator hub. Something that would set me back somewhere in the $600-800 range maybe. Wheels that I'll one day take off of this bike and put on a new bike and will really be quality wheels for a long time.
If I'm going to get a new rear wheel then I'm obviously not going to get a freewheel but will start using a cassette. I think I want to get an 8 speed cassette because it just seems simpler and cheaper. New cassette means a new derailler. I bought a used derailler yesterday that should be fine for the job. Obviously switching wheels will require new tires. I've been looking at some of compass tires 700 x 28s.

Next thing to think about is a light. If I go this route and get a front wheel generator that I will get a really nice light that will go along with it and consider that done for good.

Fenders would be nice too. I'm hoping the smaller wheels/tires will give me enough room for fenders. If the new (to me) brake calipers are too short for the new wheels, I'm thinking I'll just buy generic long reach calipers.

So all this is option one. Price for now let's say
$700 for wheels with generator
$250 for light
$150 for tires
$50 for cassette and chain
maybe $20 for long reach brake calipers

The other option is to try and find good cheap wheels, something in the ~$200 range or less. Probably get the same tires for that. New cassette, chain and brake calipers. But, I think I'd end up spending more on a light system. It seems like I really need to invest in good lighting if I am going to ride through the winter and then during the longer rides.

So, I guess the question part of this is does this sound like a wise allocation of limited resources? Should I be buying a top of the line crank and something else instead of wheels? Will quality wheels last long enough to be worth it. Should I just leave the Miyata and get a new bike that is already better set up for randonneuring? As far as the price range I've talked about is concerned, I have the money to spend on this stuff, but, this will be my "big fun expense" for the year so I do want to spend it wisely.

Thanks for looking and thanks for your thoughts!

Attached is a pic an old pic of my bike, a few things have since changed, but not much.

FrenchFit 

What an '83 or '84? So double butted, hi-ten fork, 27" frame, maybe a 126mm drop-out. I don't know, if it was a later model Miyata with triple splined frame, nice Exage linear-assist brakes, decent Araya 700c wheelset, lightweight stem and bars, etc. I think it would be more worthy and a better start to upgrade as a rando bike. I think what you have is a great around town bike but I don't think I would be dropping much money into it. Don't get me wrong, love the bike. But I don't think it's a great choice for a rockin rando.

TomPalmer

Looks good! I think your plan is sound and these old Miyata are fabulous riding bikes. I have had several including a 1000, 610, 710, 912, 110, and 2 310's. I think your is an 86. my 84 310 was one of my favorites, rode as well as the 1000, better than the 710, and I shouldn't have sold it to a friend. The switch to 700x28 will give you some more room for fenders.
If you are serious about rando the handbuilt wheels will serve you well.
Keep us posted.

Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI

rowebr

Since it sounds like you are comfortable on this bike and enjoy riding it, I think your plan makes sense. Definitely a good idea to invest in a set of high quality wheels built by an experienced wheelbuilder. What is the rear dropout spacing on your Miyata? If 126mm then I would recommend getting it cold set to 130mm by a mechanic you trust so that you can use a modern cassette hub.

Many of us here, myself included, use the Compass tires and really like them.

clasher

If you're looking at generator hubs and lights, you might find more options and better deals on the big European sites: bike24, starbike, etc. might have generator lights for better prices than stateside. You can also get the shimano dynohubs in 36 holes if you wanted to go that route but the Shutter Precisions are almost the same price as the best Shimano one so I dunno. I've been pleased with my Busch and Muller lights. The luxos U is nice if you have a phone or gps that can charge via the usb but I cheaped out and just got a IQ fly or something. that really lights up the road.

The one thing you might want to consider is indexed shifting, 8 speed index downtube shifters are still around but I think you'd need to find a clamp to mount them on since the bike in your pic doesn't have standard braze-on mounts. I tried friction shifting my 9 speed cassette and while it was fine during the day when I was wide awake it became cumbersome at night in the rain. Some people have better experience with that than I do but it wasn't something I wanted to fuss with. Bar-end shifters would be another option but they are more expensive and you'd still need a cable stop on the downtube for them, so that's a 20$ problem solvers part or if you have a co-op you could scrounge up a used dt shifter clamp or a cable stop that would work. If I had your bike I would just keep the claris crank but might upgrade to tektro brake levers if you have big hands, I find them more comfy than the smaller shimano ones.

I upgraded the wheels on my miyata 1000 so I could ride brevets without using the 40 spoke heavy-duty touring wheels that came on it and I think it's been a decent investment. I already had a dynohub and the lights on another bike that was my brevet bike but it wasn't as nice as the 1000 so I combined the two bikes. I'm going to use it again next season and hope to finish a full SR on it and am going to try a 1000K on it too.

If I ever get around to getting another frame that is lighter (and with vertical dropouts) I will move the wheels over to that bike and keep the 1000 for touring. I built wheels around mavic open pro rims, there are good deals on machine built wheels on ebay (velomine, etc.), you could save money and buy a set and get the front rebuilt around a dynohub and have the back stress-relieved and tuned up by a good local wheel builder, it might save some coin. I've done pretty good on my miyata but the bike isn't holding me back at this point, it's more my fitness and pot belly keeping me slow.

ThermionicScott 

I think you've got the right idea on building up really nice wheels that can be transferred to a better bike in the future, that it's not about sinking "too much money" into this particular bike.

Shutter Precision dynohubs are getting good reviews and are much cheaper than Schmidt hubs, and some of the newer B&M lights are worth looking into. You could knock a lot off your $950 budget and still have a great lighting system, in other words.

Also, "upgrading" beyond that Claris crankset and newer DP brakes would be a complete waste of money. Just get some Kool-Stop brake pads and those parts will be set.

EDIT: Looks like @clasher beat me to some of these points while composing my post.

jhaddad8

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I guess it's time to measure my dropouts now and decide between an 8 speed or 9 speed cassette.

bikemig 

You're not gaining that much extra clearance with 700c over 27 inch wheels. Changing the brakes from short to long reach won't make any difference in terms of clearance and your existing brakes can probably handle a 4 mm difference (sometimes you have to file a bit out of the brake caliper to make this work).

If your goal is ability to run fenders, you're better off looking for a frame that takes long reach brakes. If the fenders don't matter much, then great wheels are, well great wheels.

Now if you want cushy wheels and clearance, you could think about a 650b conversion. You'll definitely new new brakes if you do this.

mjk1217

I bought the same bike back in the spring. I put on 700c rims, added set of fenders. When i changed the wheels i also changed the cassette. I need to update the derailleur soon. Its been an awesome ride. I dont know if it makes sense to spend the money, but i really like riding this bike.

Classtime 

8 cassette speed works ok with friction shifters but it is a little touchy. I'm doing 7 speed now with friction and it is better. A nine speed cassette will "want" a 9 speed chain and that chain will "want" 9 speed crankset. If you need new wheels for durability, I'd stick with 6 speed and get a Phil Wood rear hub and leave the 126 as is. When you really want to upgrade to 9 or 10 speed, get the whole shebang for 600 bucks and get the rear end spread by a pro.
Regarding lights; Have your new light set up include the ability to charge your GPS.

RR3

I had a Miyata from that gendre and did my first brevet back then. The 310 from memory had good geometry and adequate plumbing. Ride it for a year or two and upgrade to maybe a Lemond 853

Your gearing is fine. I generally use a 46 tooth big ring unless I am serious and then it is a 53. We have a very fast Rando in PA who uses a 42 tooth in the front.

I'm a EE. Shutter Precision is what I would have bought with my budget if I was satisfied with the lamps overall. I use batteries. I will someday go to generator

I mostly ride FLO 30 wheels, Zipp 404, or Shimano C50. No problems mostly. My front wheel has 20 spokes. My rear is 21, 24, or 28 spoke and I am not a light weight. Wheels are never sunk costs...I would consider a set of aero wheels if I were you

lonesomesteve

I've been down a similar path to what you're proposing with three different 1980s Treks ('82 614, '82 311 and '85 760). They all got 700c wheels (though the 311 now has 650b wheels) and many, many other upgrades. They're all great bikes and have all been happily ridden on numerous brevets.

The one reason you might not want to take the same approach with your Miyata is that it appears to have pretty limited clearance for tires, and you said you were interested in adding fenders. Even with 700c wheels, you aren't going to have a lot of room for fenders, especially if you want tires wider that 23 mm (and you do). So, do some careful measuring and make sure it will have room for the wheel/tire/fender combination you're interested in.

Otherwise I think your priorities are right for the things you mentioned. Wheels and tires are most important. I wouldn't worry about the crank if what you have works and gives you the gearing you want. 8 speed is a great way to go for the drivetrain. I've ridden many miles including PBP this summer on bikes with 8 speed cassettes and friction downtube levers. It works great once you get used to it.

Is it a wise allocation of limited resources? Only you can answer that. If you really love the Miyata and it works well for you, then why not fix it up and keep riding it. If later you decide it's not working for you, put all the original parts back on the Miyata and sell it, and move your nice wheels and other parts to a new frame that works better for you. In my experience, building the ideal randonneuse is an evolutionary process. It rarely happens all at once.

thebulls

I've ridden a lot of brevets on early '80's Treks converted to 650B with 9-speed index gearing. So I think upgrading an '80's bike can make a lot of sense.

But the key question is whether the frame is good enough to be worth it. If it is all Reynolds 531 (or similar quality Columbus or Japanese steel) or at least 531 for the Main tubes and decent quality steel for the stays and fork, then it's worth it. If the steel is not the highest-end steel that was available in the 80's, then no matter what you spend on the rest of the bike, it's still not going to ride all that well. And there are so many bikes available on CL or EBay that do have high-end steel in the frames that it just doesn't make sense to upgrade something that isn't high-end.

So ... is the Miyata 310 frame worthy of upgrading? Looking at the catalog, it looks like the answer is "no". Hi-Ten steel fork tells me this was not a high-end-steel kind of bike.

I'd keep it as a commuter and look for something else to pour money into.

FWIW, my favorite 80's Trek is my '84 Trek 610. It has 531CS tubes, which means 531 main tubes and decent steel in the stays and fork. The frame is very responsive and fast-feeling. I have an '82 Trek 728 that is all-531, and the frame feels great, but the wheelbase is so long that I can feel the rear triangle flexing too much as I climb. So that's the only reason the 610 gets the nod over the 728.

I've ridden on my share of 80's bikes that use lower-end steel, and it just does not have that nice road-feel that high-end steel has. On a brevet, particularly a long brevet, that means that you get the crap beat out of you by a frame that transmits the road shock to you, instead of absorbing it.

Nick

seajaye

I think your plan of upgrading wheels to carry over to your next, purpose-built bike is a good strategy. I would try to minimize the extra cost of touching much else on your current bike..... as long as you can ride comfortably for long distances and you're happy with the gearing, etc. then don't sweat the rest of it.

I've also been really lucky to find both 700c and 650b hand-built dynamo wheelsets off my local craigslist for dirt cheap. Hoping you can be as lucky as I. 700c is easier to find than 650b around my parts. After getting a dynamo wheel, I splurged on an Edelux II and a B&M tail light, which I carried over.

If you can save on the wheelset, (e.g. spend $300 vs. $800), you can immediately put that money towards a rando frameset or a more appropriate project.

RR3

When you gonna get back in the saddle? We miss you on the PA Brevets!

seajaye

::blushes:: good to know i've been missed. tentatively planning on october!


OP: glad you're sticking with it! hoping you'll come out in october as well. get that wheel/lighting situation figured out soon, the winter will be coming up quick.

jhaddad8

So... thanks for everyone's comments. You've all given me a lot to think about. I've begun searching for a new frame also. It seems like consensus is that the Miyata frame will only take me so far. So, the question is now, is this frame look like a good upgrade?
RARE Vintage 1981 Trek Pro 750 Reynolds 531 Hand Made Racing Frame Fork USA 52cm | eBay

I think I'm going to buy 700c wheels and do the other upgrades on the Miyata as I take my time looking for the right frame to get. The only expense for the upgrades I'm planning on that is not for buying a part is the re-spacing of the rear dropouts, which as far as I have understood is not particularly expensive. Then once I get a new frame, I will just transfer the other parts over, no new expenes (for those parts).

Classtime 

I Squeezed a 130 wheel into my 126 frame for more than a year before I had it it spread by a pro.

jhaddad8

Did you have any issues with the wheel coming out of alignment in the frame? It is my understanding that a 130 mm wheel in 126 mm rear dropouts is generally ok, but I'm thinking I'd be more comfortable/confident if I get the frame professionally cold-set. How much did it cost you to get it spread, if you don't mind me asking (you can pm me if you a rough range too if you prefer)?

rowebr

I paid $40 (in DC, which is an expensive place) to get my Bianchi cold set from 126 to 130. Try to see if the mechanic knows what he/she is doing, such as by asking if they have done cold set jobs before. Consider a shop that regularly works on older bikes, the mechanics in some shops may see only a couple steel bikes per year.

thebulls

In my opinion that frame would be a mistake for three reasons. First, it is a racing frame and has little clearance for fenders on rando-optimal tires like 700Cx32's. Second, you cannot upgrade to a modern drivetrain because it has over-the-bottom-bracket cable routing and therefore over-the-rear-chainstay cable routing. If you try to spread the rear triangle and put in a modern wheel with something like an 11/32 cassette, you'll find that the chain rubs on the derailleur cable in the smaller cogs. I have an '82 Trek 614 that has the over-BB cable routing that I had planned to upgrade to modern gearing but then found out the problems above so I used it for commuting until I gave it to my son. Third, there are decent modern-design frames to be had at prices not much above that Trek, e.g. the Soma Grand Randonneur--someone was trying to sell a used one on EBay recently for about $180 and you can get new ones for $400. If you don't want 650B then there are probably plenty of decent TIG-welded steel frames available that are suited for randonneuring and that don't have lots of question marks associated with them like any third-of-a-century-old frame; e.g. Soma Smoothie, of which there are several on the Bay between $200 and $400.

That said, I have an '84 Trek 610 that I liked very much for randonneuring. I have an '82 Trek 728 that has touring geometry but regular 531 tubeset. It's OK for randonneuring but the long rear chainstays make the frame overly flexy. Both these bikes are now in commuter service since I bought a Soma Grand Randonneur for randonneuring use. I also have an '85 Trek 500 built up as a fixie--totally useless for randonneuring because you can't fit tires much bigger than 23's with fenders. My wife has an '86 Trek 400 that is well-suited to randonneuring, particularly since I converted it to 650B.

Following are some comments on early-model Treks. But prices on the old Trek frames seem to be higher than they were several years ago--I'd probably just get a new frame.

AVOID '81 Trek 610/613/614 and '82 Trek 613/614 because the Ishiwata CCL fork crown does not have a proper lug point so it is a failure vector.

R531=Reynolds 531=R531
NCO=Reynolds New Continental Oval fork

Low-Trail, high-quality
Except as noted, all have 73 degree head angle, 55mm rake = 43mm trail with 650Bx42 tires.

1976 TX700=R531+NCO
1977 TX700=R531+NCO
1978 710=R531+NCO, 910=Columbus SL/SP+NCO
1979 710=R531+NCO, 910=Columbus SL/SP+NCO
1980 710=R531+NCO, 910=Columbus SL/SP
1981 AVOID 610/613/614, see above
1982 AVOID 613/614, see above
1983 600/620/630/640 = R531C + mangalloy fork -- rear-rack + water-bottle cage

1984 610=R531CS frame+fork; has 52mm rake=49.6mm trail with 650Bx42 tires.

1982 720/728=R531, 72 degree head+52 mm rake==> 52mm trail with 650Bx42 tires.

Low-Trail Treks from
SF Cyclotouring: About Low Trail, and Low Trail Treks

unterhausen

I've never had trouble with modern components on over the bb cable routing. It must depend on the rear stop placement. I am pretty sure they went under the bb because it's cheaper, just need a threaded hole.

jhaddad8

What's the difference between these?

thebulls

One is a description of the steel in the frame, the other is a description of what type of fork is included.

unterhausen

my thought is that a '70s TX500 would work pretty well. Ishiwata 022 is decent tubing. The TX300 was a tank