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  1. #1
    Senior Member ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
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    Wheel options for audax

    I've done many searches and am looking for experienced opinions on good wheel/tire choices for a 210-220 lb. (96-100 kilo), ideally from a similar weighted person. May be used for ultralight touring but will never see over 250 pounds of total weight (and i would use only front panniers). Main use would be training and long distance riding including my first brevets. I am loving the idea of the Neuvation M28's at 1720 grams and supposedly pretty sturdy. I dont love the low spoke count, but would have no problem carrying a few extra spokes. Second option would be to have a set of Ultegra hubs laced to 32/36 hole rims and i'm thinking open pros, even though open sports may be better for me (1970-2100 grams). I value reliability, but would also love to have a lighter wheelset as my only bikes now have touring wheelsets and are not super enjoyable to ride.
    I'm thinkng that i'd like to go with Continental 4seasons in 28mm or the Panaracer rolly pollies or ruffy tuffies. any advice from heavier randoneurs would be appreciated.

    BTW, im 6'3' and will likely never weigh less than 200, and i'm pretty gently on my wheels. thanks

  2. #2
    Zinophile tibikefor2's Avatar
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    DT 240s Hubs (300 grams for both)
    DT 14/15 gauge spokes (32 spokes for each wheel for a total of 460 grams with brass nipples)
    DT swiss rim with double eyelets (465 grams each rim)

    Should be about 1700 grams

    An alternative rim would be the IRD Cadence Aero Rim (30mm high and incredibly strong, 465 grams per rim)

    My training partners who ride a tandem, use 25mm Michelin Pro Race 2 Tires.
    Last edited by tibikefor2; 01-11-07 at 11:05 AM.
    Tibikefor2

  3. #3
    You need a new bike supcom's Avatar
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    My feeling is that the Neuvations are a good choice for racing, but not so much for randonneuring or touring. The low spoke count might give you trouble. Do you really want to have to replace a drive side spoke in the middle of the night? Also, bladed spokes can be less than fun in stiff crosswinds.

    A 32 spoke Open Pro should make for a reliable wheel. If you do opt for a low spoke, ultralight wheel, do it up front where the loads are less.

    I'd also say that you're not going to save a significant percentage of weight by opting for the Neuvations. Yes, I know that it's rotating weight, but that's only important for accelerating. And unless you plan to race, the benefit will be negligible. Besides, you are talking about putting 28 mm tires on the wheels. The 28's will certainly help the comfort level of any wheel, as you can run them at lower pressures.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Paul L.'s Avatar
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    Was behind a guy on a low spoke count wheel last year on the end of a 300k and his back wheel made a really funny kind of bossanova rythm as it rubbed on his seatstay afterwards. I offered him my fiberfix but he didn't want it. The more spokes, the less out of true your wheel is going to go if one breaks and the better likely hood you have of straightening it out again.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    I'm in the same weight range and useage pattern. Since starting randonneuring two years ago, I've ridden Open Pro's laced with 36 spokes to 105 or Ultegra hubs (two wheelsets, one for brevets, one for training rides). With ~7000 km of brevets, including BMB, I've broken one spoke.

    When I bought my bike five years ago, it had 32 spoke wheels, and I was breaking spokes all over. I've since been told that those wheels were notoriously unreliable (REI replaced them with the OpenPro 36's). But on the once-burned-twice-shy theory of wheelbuying, I just can't see any point in risking the 32's, and the weight savings is negligible.

    Oh, for tires I've ridden Vittoria Rubino Pro 23's, Panaracer Pro 23's, Conti GP4 25's and 28's. All have had about the same frequency of flats. Currently riding on GP4 28's. The extra volume provides a bit more cushy feel, and doesn't seem to have a noticeable amount more rolling resistance. Biketiresdirect.com has good prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by ldesfor1@ithaca
    I've done many searches and am looking for experienced opinions on good wheel/tire choices for a 210-220 lb. (96-100 kilo), ideally from a similar weighted person. May be used for ultralight touring but will never see over 250 pounds of total weight (and i would use only front panniers). Main use would be training and long distance riding including my first brevets. I am loving the idea of the Neuvation M28's at 1720 grams and supposedly pretty sturdy. I dont love the low spoke count, but would have no problem carrying a few extra spokes. Second option would be to have a set of Ultegra hubs laced to 32/36 hole rims and i'm thinking open pros, even though open sports may be better for me (1970-2100 grams). I value reliability, but would also love to have a lighter wheelset as my only bikes now have touring wheelsets and are not super enjoyable to ride.
    I'm thinkng that i'd like to go with Continental 4seasons in 28mm or the Panaracer rolly pollies or ruffy tuffies. any advice from heavier randoneurs would be appreciated.

    BTW, im 6'3' and will likely never weigh less than 200, and i'm pretty gently on my wheels. thanks

  6. #6
    Zinophile tibikefor2's Avatar
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    The most important aspect of wheelbuilding is the wheelbuilder. Excellent wheelbuilders are:

    Joe Young: http://www.youngwheels.com/information.html

    Eric Gottesman: www.ergottwheels.com

    Jeremy of Alchemy Bicycle Works in Santa Fe NM

    Ligero Wheelworks: http://www.ligerowheels.com/

    A good wheelbuilder will fine tune the wheel for your body type and useage.
    Tibikefor2

  7. #7
    littlecircles bmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supcom
    My feeling is that the Neuvations are a good choice for racing, but not so much for randonneuring or touring. The low spoke count might give you trouble. Do you really want to have to replace a drive side spoke in the middle of the night? Also, bladed spokes can be less than fun in stiff crosswinds.

    A 32 spoke Open Pro should make for a reliable wheel. If you do opt for a low spoke, ultralight wheel, do it up front where the loads are less.

    I'd also say that you're not going to save a significant percentage of weight by opting for the Neuvations. Yes, I know that it's rotating weight, but that's only important for accelerating. And unless you plan to race, the benefit will be negligible. Besides, you are talking about putting 28 mm tires on the wheels. The 28's will certainly help the comfort level of any wheel, as you can run them at lower pressures.

    +1

    I started just north of 200lbs and had a set of 32 hole Mavic OPs built for me. Wonderful wheels, and even though I've shed nearly 30 pounds I wouldn't change them. I had the front wheel - with my dynohub - fly off the roof rack at 80mph passing a tractor trailer. The big rig missed it - and it bounced off the median and ended in the shoulder amongst the rocks. Took me 15 minutes to find it - but when I did it spun true. I had the LBS take a peak at it for me and they found nothing wrong. It's worked fine since, nearly 8 months.

    IMHO traditionally spoked wheels ride is smoother than minimal spoked and aero spoked wheels. I've ridden both - and prefer the Mavic OPs and Mavic Classics (both 32s) to my Bontragers with minimal aero spokes.

    Find a good local wheelbuilder who warranties their work, or use a reliable online source. My LBS mech does lifetime truing - but I've only had the pair tweaked about 2 weeks after "breaking them in".

    For LD riding I'd recommend against using the alloy nipples. They corrode and will evnetually break. I've had this happen on my rear wheel. Not much you can do about it on the road, even with a fiberfix as there isn't anything to grip.

    I've had the rear rebuilt with brass nipples, and I will be doing the front when I have opportunity. (I'll use a bit of Tri-Flow on the front at the nipple / threads when cleaning after a rainy ride.)

  8. #8
    Zinophile tibikefor2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmike
    For LD riding I'd recommend against using the alloy nipples. They corrode and will evnetually break. I've had this happen on my rear wheel. Not much you can do about it on the road, even with a fiberfix as there isn't anything to grip.
    Annodized alloy nipples help prevent corrosion.
    Tibikefor2

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibikefor2
    Annodized alloy nipples help prevent corrosion.
    Not at the threads.

  10. #10
    Zinophile tibikefor2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LWaB
    Not at the threads.
    That is why good wheel builders use spoke prep and linseed oil.

    My next set of LD wheels are being built by Joe Young.

    DT 240s Hubs
    DT Supercomp Spokes (2.0/1.7/1.8) with allow nipples, spoke prep & linseed oil
    DT 1.1 sinlgle eyelet rims

    A friend has over 10K miles on these wheels with no nipple failures.
    Tibikefor2

  11. #11
    Senior Member
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    True but try living near to the sea or where they salt the roads. Anodising doesn't offer THAT much protection.
    Last edited by LWaB; 01-12-07 at 07:07 AM.

  12. #12
    Zinophile tibikefor2's Avatar
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    True, but for 7 months out of the year, he would not have to worry about salt. I use a diffent set of wheels for when it is disgusting out.
    Tibikefor2

  13. #13
    littlecircles bmike's Avatar
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    The nipples on my wheels failed without salt involved - just with lots of rain riding.
    If I were a racer boy I'd have built up a lite set of wheels... and I'd use them only for events.


    I really think the rotational weight of the brass nipples is negligible in LD cycling. Especially if you throw a dyno hub into the mix. And lights, a bag, extra clothes, etc. Then put on those 28's that offer some puncture resistance and you've shot the whole thing down!

    Its not like folks are accerlating out of controls so they can be first to make the next corner...

    YMMV

  14. #14
    Zinophile tibikefor2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmike
    The nipples on my wheels failed without salt involved - just with lots of rain riding.
    If I were a racer boy I'd have built up a lite set of wheels... and I'd use them only for events.


    I really think the rotational weight of the brass nipples is negligible in LD cycling. Especially if you throw a dyno hub into the mix. And lights, a bag, extra clothes, etc. Then put on those 28's that offer some puncture resistance and you've shot the whole thing down!

    Its not like folks are accerlating out of controls so they can be first to make the next corner...

    YMMV
    I have never had any problems, but then I cut up my wheels every two to three years.
    Tibikefor2

  15. #15
    littlecircles bmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibikefor2
    I have never had any problems, but then I cut up my wheels every two to three years.
    mine failed in 3 months. the mech used spoke prep as well. he apologized for not recommended the brass nipples which more suit my style of riding.

    like most things in life its all relative.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Thrifty1's Avatar
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    Very dissatisfied with and urgently caution against any/all interaction with www.Superspokes.com
    I ordered a Ultegra-Velocity Fusion wheelset.......it has been over a month since my credit card was charged and still no wheels and no completion/ship date. They do not return phone calls........refuse to provide actual build status or completion/ship dates via email.
    Learn to build your own or be extremely cautious in selecting a wheel builder.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Paul L.'s Avatar
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    Hmmm, I have ordered rims from them and had no problems.
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  18. #18
    Zinophile tibikefor2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrifty1
    Very dissatisfied with and urgently caution against any/all interaction with www.Superspokes.com
    I ordered a Ultegra-Velocity Fusion wheelset.......it has been over a month since my credit card was charged and still no wheels and no completion/ship date. They do not return phone calls........refuse to provide actual build status or completion/ship dates via email.
    Learn to build your own or be extremely cautious in selecting a wheel builder.
    Thrifty1:

    The wheel builders that I recommended are some of the best in the country and are all true gentlemen.

    I know many people who have bought wheels from them with no problem.
    Tibikefor2

  19. #19
    Senior Member ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
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    Hey, thanks for all the very useful replies. I chose ergottwheels' builder Eric to build me up a set of wheels. he is building me (after some discusions with an annoying/anal retentaive buyer) this wheelset:
    Ultegra hubs, 36h
    Sapim race spokes, brass nips
    Velocity aerohead rims, offcenter in rear
    veloplugs instead of rim tape

    about 1860 grams. i have a set of conti 4seasons 28c waiting for them and an ultegra 9speed 12-27 cassette.
    i am extremely exited to ride these wheels and the bike that is awaiting them as well which is barely ridden as of yet.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldesfor1@ithaca
    Hey, thanks for all the very useful replies. ...
    veloplugs instead of rim tape
    One thing to watch out for with those Veloplugs: Sometimes they'll stick to the inner tube, so when you're changing a flat, you pull the old tube out and stick it into your bag (failing to notice Veloplug hanging off tube), put the new tube in, pump it up, and BANG!!!!

    After you figure out what happened, you put the Veloplug back in, and hope that you don't get another flat in your one remaining tube.

    Other than that, I've been running them for a couple of years now, and haven't noticed any problems. But I probably wouldn't bother with them if I hadn't already bought them -- it's hard to believe they save enough weight that you could actually tell the difference between otherwise identical wheels, and they are a little fiddly.

  21. #21
    Senior Member ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
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    hey thebulls, thanks for the warning. one thing i think i will appreciate about the velo plugs is the ease of spoke changing if needed. losing a nipple in the rim is not great. thanks again though.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldesfor1@ithaca
    hey thebulls, thanks for the warning. one thing i think i will appreciate about the velo plugs is the ease of spoke changing if needed. losing a nipple in the rim is not great. thanks again though.
    FWIW, I've had great success using FiberFix replacement spokes. On my first 600, I broke a spoke at 1 am (a mile from my hotel room, so I had the luxury of replacing the spoke in the hotel room), and rode nearly 150 miles on it the next day. On a later occasion, I broke a spoke on a "fun ride" and then rode the FiberFix for the next several weeks, while I kept intending to fix the spoke "before the next ride".

  23. #23
    Senior Member ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
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    ha, funny you say that, as i am planning on going over to Harris Cyclery today after work and grabbing one too. glad to hear the endorsement.
    -leo
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  24. #24
    Senior Member
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    I'm 210 lbs and must say that Neuvation M28 Aeros are great wheels. I've been riding on mine for 11 months and have put over 8,000 miles on mine. The only problem I had was a spoke break at around 1,100miles. I hadthe rear wheel replaced for free and haven't looked back. However, you can never go wrong with a pair of Mavic Open Pros. Higher spoke count may mean more weight but Open Pros are practically bullet-proof. You can race on them and they're great for touring from what I've been told. Just make sure you get a good hub on the build (Ultegra or Dura-Ace preferred) if you're going to abuse them.

  25. #25
    Senior Member ldesfor1@ithaca's Avatar
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    thanks terbenett, but if you look up a few posts before you, i list the build i chose to go with. i still appreciate the input and am glad i did not choose the neuvations though, at least for this application. what tires have you been using?
    thanks for the reply
    -leo
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