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  1. #1
    ld-cyclist prestonjb's Avatar
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    What do you call a Randonnée

    The term Randonnée is very vague (because the french didn't want to change their language to make it clearer)... It roughly means to take a ramble in the form of a walk, bike, horse-riding, etc...

    However in cycling the term Randonnée means a form of long distance cycling where the rider prescribes to ride a course within a specific time and record the movement through the course (mark the brevet or card).

    However it has come to my attention that esp outside of France and more speciffically in other english speaking countries... That the term is often called:

    AUDAX -- Found this term used more by down-unders and brits?
    BREVET -- Americans and most often on the web.

    In the frenchy forms the terms are
    audax - a ride involving a group of riders riding a a speed of 22.5kph trying to maintain the integrity of the group but maintaining the pace (closest to group cyclotourism)
    allure libre - a ride where each person is riding for him/her self but may for loose confederations with other participants (not allowed to ride with non-participants)


    Other confusions...
    BREVET - An allure libre of 200k or more. that is held at a specific time of the year.
    PERMANENT (also called Raid?) is like a BREVET but is open to ride multiple times of the year.
    Fleche - an AUDAX ride?

  2. #2
    hell's angels h/q e3st ny brunop's Avatar
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    i wish there were a permanent (i like "raid"!!) here in massachusetts or new hampshire.
    ". . .a striped jersey under his jacket; bared calves (outside the bicycle track); cap pushed back; feet in a false position on the pedals; a barking horn, a disorderly appearance, an always-dry tongue, and a definite fondness for wine merchants. . ."

  3. #3
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Technically, all the rides which are under the ACP or BRM umbrella are randonnees. However, I (and others) tend to use the word randonnee for rides of 1000K and more - usually under the BRM umbrella

    Technically, a brevet is the card we get signed. Brevet is the french word for patent, or I guess, proof that you've completed a randonnee. However, I (and others) tend to use the word brevet for rides of 600K and less - usually under the ACP umbrella.

    Audax is a specific style of randonneuring where all the cyclists ride together. These events are actually quite rare these days, but in the early days of randonneuring, there was one group who always rode this way, and one group who rode brevets/randonnees the way most are run today. I believe the audax group merged with the randonneuring group back 30 or 40 years ago.

    Fleche means arrow because there are supposed to be several teams, each starting in a different location, but each ending in the same "bull's eye" (so to speak). Each team does sort of ride the event audax-style.

    Permanents are much more open ... you can ride them wherever and even design your own route ... but you do have to have it all approved.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka
    Audax is a specific style of randonneuring where all the cyclists ride together. These events are actually quite rare these days, but in the early days of randonneuring, there was one group who always rode this way, and one group who rode brevets/randonnees the way most are run today. I believe the audax group merged with the randonneuring group back 30 or 40 years ago.
    Audax rides still occur in France, Germany, Belgium and the Netherlands but in smaller numbers than randonneur events (cyclo-sportifs far outnumber both). The Audax group never merged with the randonneuring group. The ACP did merge with an Audax club at a time when randonneuring was close to dying out. The Lepertels were part of the other club and played a large part in the resurgence of randonneuring and the ACP.

    The UK and Australia (and some other groups) refer to their randonneuring as Audax riding because of the Audax Club Parisien. The ACP created randonneuring and organise PBP (the primary focus of those groups in the early days) but didn't change their name to reflect the change in the style of riding. The distinction between riding styles was only noted by Anglophones in the late 80s or 90s. Audax UK is comparatively old, Randonneurs USA is a recent organisation.

    Raids (and Diagonals) are a subset of Permanents. Perms usually are similar to calendar events (min speeds and distances) but with a free date. Raids are often multi-day point-to-point affairs, often with a reduced average speed, reflecting the (usually) lumpy profile. Diagonals can usually be ridden at either randonneuring pace or tourist pace. Raids do not generally qualify the rider for any sort of 'cumulative award' like the ACP Randonneur 5000. Normal permanents can usually be counted towards a national cumulative award (not ACP though). There are independant awards for accumulating Diagonals.

    There are quite a few stand-alone brevets, Paris-Roubaix Cyclo for one. The principle of carrying a card that is signed or stamped at various locations is the same but there are different standards regarding speed, distance and so on. Cyclo-sportifs or Gran Fondos can range from being similar to brevets through to being flat-out races. Several regions in France have permanent brevets - designed for tourists to ride scenic routes, clipping or stamping their brevet cards at various mountaintops.
    Last edited by LWaB; 01-15-07 at 04:53 AM.

  5. #5
    You need a new bike supcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brunop
    i wish there were a permanent (i like "raid"!!) here in massachusetts or new hampshire.
    Make one!

    Permanents can be created by any RUSA member. It's not all that hard to do.

  6. #6
    Junior Member dabzik's Avatar
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    The Audax is style of randonneuring of endurance, with a speed imposed and controlled, drive by the masters of roads regulating the speed of the group. This rate is, between two stops, 20, 22.5 or 25 km/h depending on the profile of the course (average hourly announced in advance) for cyclists; from 6 to 6.5 km / h for walkers; of 1.714 km / h for swimmers; of 7 km / h for rowers and about 9 km / h for nordic skiers.

    The beginning of this formula come from Italy, where the June, 12th, 1897 twelve cyclists (9 on the finish line) try to do the travel from Roma to Naples between the dawn and the sunset. (the name come from latin for Audacious)
    In 1904, Henri Desgrange (father in 1903 of the Tour de France) create the Audax style brevet to promote long-distance cyclism for all (first brevet : April, 3rd, 1904).
    The same year, begin the Audax walking brevet (06/26/1904), swimming brevet : 06/27/1913, rowing : 09/04/1921 and ski : 02/23/1985.

    In 1921, a clash appear between the members of ACP : those who want to continue the Audax formula and those who want to do what we call now Randonneur.
    Then since this date, there is two clubs in France :
    ACP and the Brevet des Randonneurs Mondiaux (with a Paris-Brest each four years),
    l'Union des Audax Francais who maintain the Audax formula (with a Paris-Brest each five years).
    In 2011, the two events are the same year (with maybe two PBP groups for Audax, one at the beginning of July and another during the Randonneur).

    The U.A.F is the owner of the registered trade-mark AUDAX (and Paris-Brest-Paris with ACP). Some old national clubs use the term Audax, because they use the term Audax before the register of AUDAX.

    Since this year, Belgium and Nederland create national Union des Audax.

    If somebody want to create the same in USA, we can help you.

    (Excuse my poor english )
    Last edited by dabzik; 12-15-07 at 02:23 PM.

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    There is already a website for Audax USA, seemingly defunct for the last 5 years or so. Stockholm 22.5 is another Audax group. I understood that Belgium and the Netherlands had been running Audax brevets for years.

    By the way, Audax brevets exist for other activities also, walking, swimming, skiing and kayaking. There are awards for completing events across all the disciplines.

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    I can't even get the local club to ride in an acceptable paceline. Audax seems too "audacious" for typical modern American bike rider. Grump, grump...

  9. #9
    To Infinity and Beyond! Pedaling Pete's Avatar
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    Intresting subject! Have for years been puzzled by the mixup of terms.
    Could someone explain the reason for UK/Au/NZ using the term Audax for what is a Brevé event in the rest of the world? Why was this terminology not adopted by US and Canada?
    ---------------------------------------------------
    The only Audax events in Sweden:
    http://www.audax.se/
    It's not a club but a section of Fredrikshof IF in Stockholm:
    http://www.fredrikshof.se/
    Swedish Randonneur events:
    http://www.randonneurs.se/
    Other clubs:
    Ck Distans:
    http://www.ckdistans.se/
    Örebrocyklisterna:
    http://www.orebrocyklisterna.se/
    Hisingen Ck:
    http://www.hisingensck.se/
    Alnö CK:
    http://www.xn--aln-ck-yxa.se/
    "There is no time like the present, for postponing what
    you ought to be doing, and go bicycling instead"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedaling Pete View Post
    Intresting subject! Have for years been puzzled by the mixup of terms.
    Could someone explain the reason for UK/Au/NZ using the term Audax for what is a Brevé event in the rest of the world? Why was this terminology not adopted by US and Canada?
    hmm ... interesting question ...

    from the Audax UK history:

    ALSO in 1904, those cyclists who had gained the Brevet d'Audax formed the Audax Club Parisien (ACP) and organised events for Auto throughout France.

    IN 1920 ACP upset Desgrange by assisting in an event sponsored by a rival newspaper and he withdrew the club's right to organise Audax events. To avoid infringing the Audax method of riding, and to enable them to carry out their programme of events in 1921, ACP created the Brevets de Randonneur (ie Certificates for Long-distance-cyclists).

    THE BREVETS DE RANDONNEUR differ from Audax in that cyclists do not have to ride as a group and keep to a set timetable. Each individual can go at his own pace - 'a allure libre' - and stop at will for refreshment. To prevent racing a series of time checks are established at controls with minimum and maximum time limits.

    IT IS THESE REGULATIONS which have been adopted by Audax United Kingdom and the name Audax in the title comes from ACP not the style of the event. AUK is responsible for the Brevets de Randonneur in the UK, not Euraudax events.

    So, there you go. Audax UK and Audax Australia take the name according to the precedent placed by Audax Club Parisien, but they still refer to their rides as brevets (as do Germans and Danes, btw). The umbrella American org -- Randonneurs USA doesn't follow that precedent since Americans aren't one for walking in the footsteps in the English, and the Canadians don't have an umbrella national organization and prefer to organize around province.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Madsnail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prestonjb View Post
    The term Randonnée is very vague (because the french didn't want to change their language to make it clearer)... It roughly means to take a ramble in the form of a walk, bike, horse-riding, etc...
    My French opinion on this
    If one uses the word randonnée alone, it refers to a "long and uninterrupted walk". And if you say to someone in France "I'm going for a randonnée", everyone will think you're going to go out there with your backpack and walk for the day.
    Another example of how it relates to walking: hiking boots in French are called "chaussures de randonnée".
    Now it can be used with other nouns to specify which kind of long and uninterrupted activity one will be doing: horse randonnée, bike randonnée, ski randonnée, etc.
    But since this was not originally meant to describe an activity involving a bicycle, it's true this is a bit vague.

  12. #12
    Chocolate and nap Michelangelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Fleche means arrow because there are supposed to be several teams, each starting in a different location, but each ending in the same "bull's eye" (so to speak). Each team does sort of ride the event audax-style.
    Flèche stands here for flèche Vélocio (not to be confused with flèches de France, also organized by ACP). They are organised each year by ACP an an event permitting to participating teams to join the location where the FFCT (French Federation of Cyclotourisme) hosts the yearly gathering "Easter in Provence". All as to memorialise Velocio: a gentleman named Paul de Vivie and born in Pernes les Fontaines in 1853 http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vélocio. In col de la République which permits to go across the monts du Lyonnais from St Etienne to the Rhône Valley, you can see a memorial to Velocio, just as you have one in Pernes les Fontaines.



    You can see above a picture taken saturday night on top of the col de la République showing, I believe, the stèle Vélocio (and our three bikes, it was cold and snowing). This was a 372 km flèche Vélocio, ending this year in St Paul Trois Châteaux (in Provence). In a Flèche Vélocio, you pick your ittinerary as Machka is saying, it must be longer than 360 km and end at the Pâques en Provence site, all that in 24 hours sharp. Some daring fellows ride longer than 600 km, some even more than 700 km

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  13. #13
    To Infinity and Beyond! Pedaling Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spokenword View Post
    hmm ... interesting question ...

    from the Audax UK history:

    ALSO in 1904, those cyclists who had gained the Brevet d'Audax formed the Audax Club Parisien (ACP) and organised events for Auto throughout France.

    IN 1920 ACP upset Desgrange by assisting in an event sponsored by a rival newspaper and he withdrew the club's right to organise Audax events. To avoid infringing the Audax method of riding, and to enable them to carry out their programme of events in 1921, ACP created the Brevets de Randonneur (ie Certificates for Long-distance-cyclists).

    THE BREVETS DE RANDONNEUR differ from Audax in that cyclists do not have to ride as a group and keep to a set timetable. Each individual can go at his own pace - 'a allure libre' - and stop at will for refreshment. To prevent racing a series of time checks are established at controls with minimum and maximum time limits.

    IT IS THESE REGULATIONS which have been adopted by Audax United Kingdom and the name Audax in the title comes from ACP not the style of the event. AUK is responsible for the Brevets de Randonneur in the UK, not Euraudax events.

    So, there you go. Audax UK and Audax Australia take the name according to the precedent placed by Audax Club Parisien, but they still refer to their rides as brevets (as do Germans and Danes, btw). The umbrella American org -- Randonneurs USA doesn't follow that precedent since Americans aren't one for walking in the footsteps in the English, and the Canadians don't have an umbrella national organization and prefer to organize around province.
    Thanks for your reply!
    Sorry, but the naming of the organisations was clear to me.
    What is confusing is the inconsistent terminology used to describe indiviual events. Maybe I have been misslead by different forumpost, but from what I gather the word Brevé is replaced by Audax to describe the events in UK/Au/NZ not to mention Century, DoubleCentury etc in Northamerica. I think it have not yet been a definitive expenation to why it is so...
    "There is no time like the present, for postponing what
    you ought to be doing, and go bicycling instead"

  14. #14
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    AU and NZ tend to use the term Audax ride more often than brevet and Audaxer rather than randonneur. Possibly we are too lazy to bother learning more than one word...

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