Cross bike as LD bike?
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Cross bike as LD bike?
Relatively new cyclist, but done enough that I've decided i want a newer bike than what I am riding (mid-80s Bridgestone). I'm very interested in doing brevets, and am trying to slant my bike choice with that in mind. A friend who rides a lot, races a lot, but does not do long distance suggested that a cyclocross bike may be a good option for me.
Any comments or opinions on this? If you disagree with this notion, why and what do you recommend?
Thanks.
Any comments or opinions on this? If you disagree with this notion, why and what do you recommend?
Thanks.
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Don't mention the Bridgestone!! If it's a road version, and you can fit fenders to it, it's likely great for brevets (with a tune-up).
OTOH - people will pay good money for a Bridgestone.
OTOH - people will pay good money for a Bridgestone.
#3
Professional Fuss-Budget
I certainly hope it does, since I picked up a Surly Cross-Check for exactly that purpose.
Pros: cross bikes are versatile, so you can use them for off-road, commuting, touring, recreation rides, and training as well as LD. Very rugged, strong wheels & rims, stable handling, can take wide tires & fenders. Often have steel frames and rack mounts.
Cons: Not quite as fast as a true road bike. Some people don't like the cantilever brakes.
I'm running 700 x 25c's and a triple on an otherwise stock Cross-Check. Longest ride I've done so far on my CC is a mere 80 miles, and it's super smooth. Hard to beat for $1,000 new. Heck, it even looks good.
If speed is a factor, look into a Roubaix-style bike, which will be somewhere in between a "performance road" and cross bike as far as handling and speed.
Pros: cross bikes are versatile, so you can use them for off-road, commuting, touring, recreation rides, and training as well as LD. Very rugged, strong wheels & rims, stable handling, can take wide tires & fenders. Often have steel frames and rack mounts.
Cons: Not quite as fast as a true road bike. Some people don't like the cantilever brakes.
I'm running 700 x 25c's and a triple on an otherwise stock Cross-Check. Longest ride I've done so far on my CC is a mere 80 miles, and it's super smooth. Hard to beat for $1,000 new. Heck, it even looks good.
If speed is a factor, look into a Roubaix-style bike, which will be somewhere in between a "performance road" and cross bike as far as handling and speed.
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If you've got the new bike sickness there's likely nothing you can do about it. But realistically, the thousand dollars for a crosscheck might be better spent doing a major upgrade to the Bridgestone. The crosscheck is a decent bike, but would it be any better than your old bike with $500 worth of new wheels, plus barends, new gearing and whatnot? The Surly complete bike packages are value components. They're fine, but nothing spectacular.
You might also consider geometry and whether you want to be in such an agressive riding position for 5,6,7+ hours at a time (for the short brevets). My back hurts just thinking about it! But if you can't shake the new bike syndrome, at least consider the Long Haul Trucker. A cross race only lasts an hour...
You might also consider geometry and whether you want to be in such an agressive riding position for 5,6,7+ hours at a time (for the short brevets). My back hurts just thinking about it! But if you can't shake the new bike syndrome, at least consider the Long Haul Trucker. A cross race only lasts an hour...
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I've put a lot of thought into 'cross bikes for LD, and I think the idea makes a lot of sense. 'Cross bikes have almost everything the typical LDer would want; the only potential troubles being fenders and bottom bracket height. Most 'cross frames are not set up for fenders so if you want them you may have to do some drilling at the fork crown and bridges, or resort to some kind of clamp/bolt bodge. And 'cross bikes come with high bottom brackets, which is good for getting over obstacles but not so good for stability. It can be a subtle thing, and many/most riders won't care -- if they even notice -- but I don't expecially like the feel of a bike with a high bottom bracket, which is what has kept me from pursuing the 'cross bike idea.
HTH!
HTH!
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Cross bikes are typically set up for a double. Many randonneurs find triples useful. Worth checking that you can put on a triple. If the Bridgestone is a nice, lugged steel bike that will take fender, then I'd think you're far better off upgrading whatever you need to on that bike for brevet purposes.
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One advantage of a cross frame is that it will accept wider tires than the typical road frame. Fitting 28-30mm Grand Bois or Panaracer tires at lower pressures will give you a much smoother ride and the reduce hand numbness you tend to get with the 23-25mm high pressure tires most road frames are stuck with.
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Thanks for the replies so far. Plenty of votes for simply spending the money to upgrade my current bike, which is the other option I have been considering.
As stated, I am fairly new as a cyclist, still trying to learn components and what fits what, and how much difficulty I will have finding parts to upgrade the Bridgestone.
This is what I see as needing upgraded on the B/S: Gearing (currently 52/42 on the chainrings- not ideal for hills). Should I go w/ a triple or just a smaller small ring? what else do I need to replace to accomplish either?
Brakes are pretty marginal, even after new pads and adjustments.
Wheels and tires- currently 27", will I be able to find replacements in remote areas if needed, what pitfalls will I find with an upgrade to 700c? Brake reach and dropout width? Other issues?
Stem- okay, this should be simple, but I have the current stem up as high as possible, and it still feels a bit low for long term comfort.
Value? Will I end up with $500+ in parts and labor on a bike that is still worth maybe $150?
Hope I didn't just hijack my own thread! Thanks again, you guys are most helpful.
As stated, I am fairly new as a cyclist, still trying to learn components and what fits what, and how much difficulty I will have finding parts to upgrade the Bridgestone.
This is what I see as needing upgraded on the B/S: Gearing (currently 52/42 on the chainrings- not ideal for hills). Should I go w/ a triple or just a smaller small ring? what else do I need to replace to accomplish either?
Brakes are pretty marginal, even after new pads and adjustments.
Wheels and tires- currently 27", will I be able to find replacements in remote areas if needed, what pitfalls will I find with an upgrade to 700c? Brake reach and dropout width? Other issues?
Stem- okay, this should be simple, but I have the current stem up as high as possible, and it still feels a bit low for long term comfort.
Value? Will I end up with $500+ in parts and labor on a bike that is still worth maybe $150?
Hope I didn't just hijack my own thread! Thanks again, you guys are most helpful.
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Thechamp suggested "at least consider the Long Haul Trucker. A cross race only lasts an hour... "
I have also toyed with the idea of the purpose built touring bikes, including the LHT. Thechamp, you are from my area, who in the Portland area carries them?
I have also toyed with the idea of the purpose built touring bikes, including the LHT. Thechamp, you are from my area, who in the Portland area carries them?
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Oh dear, thinking of upgrading the Bridgestone? Now you'll be swamped with info...
A few options for lower gearing:
- Get a smaller chainring. I've been told that the derailleur influences the max difference between the two chainrings, but you can definitely go smaller than 42.
- Increase the size of the biggest sprocket on your freewheel/cassette. Parts availability is the hardest thing to get around.
- Go triple. May not be possible depending on the frame. Requires new crank and derailleur, and possibly a new bottom bracket.
For the good news, I'd bet your bike is worth more than $150, and there is tons of Bridgestone-specific data out there.
Start with Sheldon Brown
A few options for lower gearing:
- Get a smaller chainring. I've been told that the derailleur influences the max difference between the two chainrings, but you can definitely go smaller than 42.
- Increase the size of the biggest sprocket on your freewheel/cassette. Parts availability is the hardest thing to get around.
- Go triple. May not be possible depending on the frame. Requires new crank and derailleur, and possibly a new bottom bracket.
For the good news, I'd bet your bike is worth more than $150, and there is tons of Bridgestone-specific data out there.
Start with Sheldon Brown
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wheelset $300 - $350
tires tubes, etc $80 - $100
Long reach brakes sidepull $60 - $80
new stem $35
this is adding up fast!
sugino triple + bb $120
wide range cassette $40-$50
deraileurs, $60-$100
Labor?
so maybe you're not saving any money. I wish I did this before I bought my last touring frame.
But all those prices are for new, I tend to buy used whenever I can (biopace triple? $10!) and there's pretty good supply of that around here. I also do all my own work, with the exception of a headset install once, and that's part of the fun for me.
I think, looking at this little shopping list, that changing out the wheels is going to set you back the most (wheels/tires/cassette/rear deraileur/ new brakes...). So, if you can fit fenders on the bike already, you might think about just going for the new crank/bb, maybe a new freewheel and a higher stem and see where that gets you. Good 27" tires are readily available online and in some stores (around here anyway) You could carry an extra tire if you were heading way way out there, but a pre-ride inspection might be all you really need. I'm not sure what makes your brakes marginal but it'll be tough to figure out a solution to that from my couch.
I'm also going to go out on a limb and say not to think about the value of the bike as the combined value of the parts. It'll drive you crazy. On the bright side, it's unlikely that you're old Bridgestone, as it sits, is only worth $150. Hard to tell without the model number, but check ebay to see what old bridgestones are going for. A model number might be of some help here.
Of course, all this is largely dependent on the state of your current bike. The wheels might be shot and have to be replaced, the frame might be a ******* (they did make a few). It could be ready to fall apart. It's hard to tell. how about a picture?
There's a couple of shops that have Surly bikes out on the floor but I'm not sure I've seen a built up LHT recently. Seen a bunch of crosschecks though. Revolver on interstate and Rosa Parks always has a couple of surly's built up, and I've seen the frames hanging up at citybikes, but none complete. The frames and components are all sold through QBP, which supplies to just about every bike store out there, so they can all order the stuff. As for built up, though, I'm not sure. Also not sure if anyone would build one up for a test ride unless you were already a good customer. This is the curse of surly bikes.
Newsflash!!! Revolver has a built up Long hual trucker in 56 on the floor at the moment, I just called them.
tires tubes, etc $80 - $100
Long reach brakes sidepull $60 - $80
new stem $35
this is adding up fast!
sugino triple + bb $120
wide range cassette $40-$50
deraileurs, $60-$100
Labor?
so maybe you're not saving any money. I wish I did this before I bought my last touring frame.
But all those prices are for new, I tend to buy used whenever I can (biopace triple? $10!) and there's pretty good supply of that around here. I also do all my own work, with the exception of a headset install once, and that's part of the fun for me.
I think, looking at this little shopping list, that changing out the wheels is going to set you back the most (wheels/tires/cassette/rear deraileur/ new brakes...). So, if you can fit fenders on the bike already, you might think about just going for the new crank/bb, maybe a new freewheel and a higher stem and see where that gets you. Good 27" tires are readily available online and in some stores (around here anyway) You could carry an extra tire if you were heading way way out there, but a pre-ride inspection might be all you really need. I'm not sure what makes your brakes marginal but it'll be tough to figure out a solution to that from my couch.
I'm also going to go out on a limb and say not to think about the value of the bike as the combined value of the parts. It'll drive you crazy. On the bright side, it's unlikely that you're old Bridgestone, as it sits, is only worth $150. Hard to tell without the model number, but check ebay to see what old bridgestones are going for. A model number might be of some help here.
Of course, all this is largely dependent on the state of your current bike. The wheels might be shot and have to be replaced, the frame might be a ******* (they did make a few). It could be ready to fall apart. It's hard to tell. how about a picture?
There's a couple of shops that have Surly bikes out on the floor but I'm not sure I've seen a built up LHT recently. Seen a bunch of crosschecks though. Revolver on interstate and Rosa Parks always has a couple of surly's built up, and I've seen the frames hanging up at citybikes, but none complete. The frames and components are all sold through QBP, which supplies to just about every bike store out there, so they can all order the stuff. As for built up, though, I'm not sure. Also not sure if anyone would build one up for a test ride unless you were already a good customer. This is the curse of surly bikes.
Newsflash!!! Revolver has a built up Long hual trucker in 56 on the floor at the moment, I just called them.
Last edited by thechamp; 11-16-07 at 02:29 PM. Reason: newsflash
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Relatively new cyclist, but done enough that I've decided i want a newer bike than what I am riding (mid-80s Bridgestone). I'm very interested in doing brevets, and am trying to slant my bike choice with that in mind. A friend who rides a lot, races a lot, but does not do long distance suggested that a cyclocross bike may be a good option for me.
Any comments or opinions on this? If you disagree with this notion, why and what do you recommend?
Thanks.
Any comments or opinions on this? If you disagree with this notion, why and what do you recommend?
Thanks.
Touring bikes for touring style riding. The individual bike will vary a lot, but start in the right catagory at least. Start with the right frame.
That's too much of a generalization to answer accurately. Some cross bikes will be good, some not so good.
A good cross racing bike may not have a wide gearing range like a touring bike and no fender or rack eyelets. And the frame could be too light and flexible. Also poor fender clearance.
It would be easier to find a touring bike that would be ideal for your long rides. Stiffer rear stays for better handling with a heavy pannier load, fenders will fit better, and eyelets for fenders racks and even front pannier threaded holes in the front fork. Slower handling geometry possibly too.
#13
Professional Fuss-Budget
Y'know, I pretty much went through all this when I picked up my new bike. I have an 80s steel roadie, made in Japan, entry-level, lots of crappy bad tech (like Biopace chainrings and Shimano Light Action derailleurs). It was comfortable enough for a Century, but ultimately, upgrading it simply didn't make sense.
You're better off using the Bridgestone as your beater / backup bike, and getting something else for long distances. With a new bike, you'll get at least a year of tune-ups from your LBS and hopefully a real fit as well. For all you know, the Bridgestone could be the wrong size....
The thing is, many different types of bikes are suitable for LD. Performance road, Roubaix, audax, cross, even touring will all work. The 1st two types will be the hardest to get wide tires & fenders, the others are no problem. I'd try to figure out what else you want to do with a bike, select a style, do as many test rides as your LBS can stand, and see how it goes.
By the way, LHT's are pretty much back-ordered right now; Surly can't make enough of 'em. Another good thing about the Cross-Check, I had mine in less than a week.
You're better off using the Bridgestone as your beater / backup bike, and getting something else for long distances. With a new bike, you'll get at least a year of tune-ups from your LBS and hopefully a real fit as well. For all you know, the Bridgestone could be the wrong size....
The thing is, many different types of bikes are suitable for LD. Performance road, Roubaix, audax, cross, even touring will all work. The 1st two types will be the hardest to get wide tires & fenders, the others are no problem. I'd try to figure out what else you want to do with a bike, select a style, do as many test rides as your LBS can stand, and see how it goes.
By the way, LHT's are pretty much back-ordered right now; Surly can't make enough of 'em. Another good thing about the Cross-Check, I had mine in less than a week.
Last edited by Bacciagalupe; 11-16-07 at 09:43 PM.
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Haven't shopped Portland for LHTs, but if you're coming down to Salem, Santiam Bicycles on Commercial and Center has them, and at least one guy in there is knowledgeable about that frame.
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I'd think of your current bike as being a frame and a collection of mostly-out-of-date parts. Whether it's worth upgrading depends on the frame.
So how does the frame compare to a nice brevet-bike frame? Lugged, high-end steel is still state-of-the-art on a nice Rivendell Rambouillet, Bilenky, etc. So if the frame is high-end steel, and if the geometry is right for you and right for randonneuring (takes big tires w/fenders; takes either a triple if you need really low gearing or a compact double if you only need pretty-low gearing; works well with a bar bag &/or saddlebag &/or rack-bag; handlebars higher than saddle, but this is probably easy with a Nitto Technomic stem) then you've got the basis for a happy relationship. If the geometry is wrong for you, or not suitable for randonneuring, then it's a waste to replace parts. If the frame is mediocre steel, then there are many medium-priced frames that probably have better steel and could build up to a better bike. For example, the Soma Extra Smoothie or the Salsa Casseroll or the Surly Pacer or the Kogswell P/R (if you're happy with 650 wheels) or the Rivendell Bleriot (also 650 wheels) are all moderate-priced frames that could be built up into nice brevet bikes. By high-end steel, I'm thinking Reynolds 531 double-butted, or Tange Champion #2, etc. Find out what kind of steel it is and look it up on the tables below.
See https://www.desperadocycles.com/The_L...per_Tubing.htm
or
https://www.desperadocycles.com/The_L...Properties.htm
The type of steel really makes a difference. I have a Rivendell Rambouillet and a Gunnar Sport and an '84 Trek 400. The first two are high-end steel that is very responsive. The last was made of Tange 2001 Mangalloy, and while it is still a pretty-nice bike, it is noticeably less responsive.
So how does the frame compare to a nice brevet-bike frame? Lugged, high-end steel is still state-of-the-art on a nice Rivendell Rambouillet, Bilenky, etc. So if the frame is high-end steel, and if the geometry is right for you and right for randonneuring (takes big tires w/fenders; takes either a triple if you need really low gearing or a compact double if you only need pretty-low gearing; works well with a bar bag &/or saddlebag &/or rack-bag; handlebars higher than saddle, but this is probably easy with a Nitto Technomic stem) then you've got the basis for a happy relationship. If the geometry is wrong for you, or not suitable for randonneuring, then it's a waste to replace parts. If the frame is mediocre steel, then there are many medium-priced frames that probably have better steel and could build up to a better bike. For example, the Soma Extra Smoothie or the Salsa Casseroll or the Surly Pacer or the Kogswell P/R (if you're happy with 650 wheels) or the Rivendell Bleriot (also 650 wheels) are all moderate-priced frames that could be built up into nice brevet bikes. By high-end steel, I'm thinking Reynolds 531 double-butted, or Tange Champion #2, etc. Find out what kind of steel it is and look it up on the tables below.
See https://www.desperadocycles.com/The_L...per_Tubing.htm
or
https://www.desperadocycles.com/The_L...Properties.htm
The type of steel really makes a difference. I have a Rivendell Rambouillet and a Gunnar Sport and an '84 Trek 400. The first two are high-end steel that is very responsive. The last was made of Tange 2001 Mangalloy, and while it is still a pretty-nice bike, it is noticeably less responsive.
#16
Part-time epistemologist
Relatively new cyclist, but done enough that I've decided i want a newer bike than what I am riding (mid-80s Bridgestone). I'm very interested in doing brevets, and am trying to slant my bike choice with that in mind. A friend who rides a lot, races a lot, but does not do long distance suggested that a cyclocross bike may be a good option for me.
Any comments or opinions on this? If you disagree with this notion, why and what do you recommend?
Any comments or opinions on this? If you disagree with this notion, why and what do you recommend?
I have a 2005 Jamis Nova. It differs from the present model in that it has a triple instead of a compact road crank. It also has cantilever brakes, can fit wide tires, and has the appropriate mounts for fenders/racks. The geometry is definitely more relaxed than the typical roadbike. I recall that the headtube angle is 72 degrees and that the chainstays are relatively long (42.5 instead of 41.0 cm). I have also changed the cassette from a 12-25 to a 13-30 ala Sheldon Brown.
There are two bikes that I use for long rides. The aforementioned Nova and a Bike Friday New World Tourist. The gearing is wider and the fit is marginally better on the NWT. So I use it for my really aggressive and super hilly rides. However, the smaller wheels require a little more attention which can wear a little thin when one goes for longer distances. Consequently, I use the Nova often for long rides. Particularly when the roads are sub par, there might be riding with poor lighting, and/or public parking will be utilized. I also use it for as a fast commuter. My experience is that it performs quite admirably. When I put skinny tires on the bike, it works quite well as a performance road bike. I typically use 32mm Panaracer Pasela Tourguard tires which appear to be a little narrow. But are relatively light for their size and have lasted a really long time.
In other words, I think that the engine matters much more than the bike.
If I had to do it all over again, I would start with a Surly Crosscheck or a Soma Doublecross and do the following:
- start with a 48-36-26 trekking crank ... Sugino is supposedly coming out with a 110 BCD external bearing triple
- use a MTB rear derailer
- switch between a 12-27 cassette and a 11-32 cassette according to the ride
- stick with STI shifting ... I am assuming that a 10 speed 11-32 cassette is coming soon
- use a 135mm rear hub to reduce dish
At the moment, I am building a road bike for long club rides. I just bought a Salsa La Raza with fork for $400. Unfortunately, I am not building it up until after we move from our present apartment. Just not enough space for yet another bike. So I can't write much from experience. According to specs, it can fit 28mm wide tires and has the requisite braze-on mounts for racks.
https://www.bikemannetwork.com/Mercha...e_Code=BIKEMAN
From what I understand about brevets and discussions with the local randonneur group, I would go with the cyclocross bike since they all seem to be huge advocates of 32mm + tires for these uber rides. Personally, 28mm wide tires seem to be optimal for centuries; but I perceive a difference in comfort and speed when I swap in the 32mm tires on the Nova. Big increase in comfort. Small decrease in speed.
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Wow! Information overload! Not a complaint, but lots of different opinions to think about. I may start by just scheduling a proper fitting of my current ride at my LBS, see if it is close enough to be set up properly for me, then see how much the upgrades would really cost (thanks for the cost estimates). Go from there.
Thanks for the responses.
Thanks for the responses.
#18
Part-time epistemologist
Mind you, if you are going to do loaded touring, then I would go with a Long Haul Trucker or something of the sort ... (from memory) longer chain stays, lower BB, an even more relaxed geometry, heavier ... great for that sort of thing; but a bit of overkill for long rides in my opinion. But it is a popular frame.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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