Old_Crow

x-posted from the Raod forum in case here are endurance riders here that don't go there...

I'm focusing my bike time on improving my time at distance events, officially timed or not. I've got a long ways to go but double centuries(or more) with significant climbing fit well with my long term goals.

I'm considering the purchase of a set of aero wheel this summer since these things are essentially just long TT's whether it's me doing the timing or someone else. Of course, Zipp 303 clinchers are the first thing I thought of but I'd be very interested in other options (esp less $$). I dig the ride of sew-ups but having to haul along a couple extra tires or having to finish long rides with serious descent on less than 100% glued tires gives me the willies.

I'd appreciate input as to good compromises between comfort, durability and climbing ability. Some rides have very limited or no support so a simple thing like a busted proprietary spoke in an aero wheel would be a bummer...

Thx!

StanSeven

303's are good, especially if you do climbing. If there are few hills involved, you might consider 404's

Bacciagalupe

I'd skip on tubular tires for LD events. If you get a flat and have to replace the whole tire, you'll have to glue the tires on, and that takes longer than swapping a clincher tube/tire. And there goes your time advantage....

Aero wheels will give you a slight advantage. The main question is: are the potential downsides worth those advantages?

The primary issue is one of comfort. For 100+ miles, you need wheels that will absorb a lot of shock and give you a comfortable ride; a wheel that feels fine at mile 70 may feel too harsh at 100 and beyond. The 303's are pretty low spoke count, so chances are it will be a harsher ride than 32 or 36 spoke wheels.

Overall my feeling is that unless you plan to do LD events competitively, or it's critical for you to come in the top 50 of a given event, for this specific purpose 303's are not worth the expenditure. Unless you're already close to your top form, you have more to gain from training than from swapping wheels.

Also, LD rides don't necessarily need to be TT's, particularly during the daylight hours. I'm not aware of any centuries or brevets that ban drafting, and have heard of plenty of people who hop onto a paceline during an event.

Godwin

Making your bike more areo or lighter will enable you to go further or faster with the same amount of energy. As long as you're not too heavy or ride on extremely poor roads (and don't avoid the potholes) you shouldn't have anything to worry about on a well built set of aero wheels. If the ride is any harsher there are better places to make your bike more comfortable such as the saddle, handlebar tape, gloves, shorts, or a good Ti frame.

sch

Aero advantage is speed related, average speeds in the 18-22mph range will notice some effect
but speeds above 25 take better advantage of the air resistance reduction. OTOH aero wheels
are almost always heavier, unless you get into the $500 and up per wheel range than non aero
versions so LD events with a significant emphasis on climbing would benefit from weight reduction
more than aeroness. The percentage improvement with either approach is going to be small to
very small. Aero bars give a lot greater return on investment. Tubulars make no sense unless your
budget allows a follow car and quick wheel changes.

nine

One thing that appeals to me about aero wheels is that you don't have to worry about breaking a spoke. anyone have opinions on using something like aerospokes for randoneuring?

ronsmithjunior

First, I ride a recumbent, so my experiences will be a little different from yours. This is my aero setup:

https://web.mac.com/ronsmithjunior/Ba...wheelcover.jpg

Effect: The wheels make a big difference, surprisingly so. For any event where I am concerned about time I will use this setup. On the front is a Spinergy Rev-X, and on the rear is a wheel cover over a regular wheel that has a Powertap hub.

Durability: With the Spinergy, either it is working correctly or it is broken. None of this "I wonder if I can ride with this busted spoke until I get to a place where I can fix it." Running a wheel cover on the rear gives me all of the durability of a normal spoked wheel. At worst, I'd have to take the cover off to fix a spoke. Time consuming, but unlikely.

Comfort: No comfort is lost with this setup. The Spinergy rides about the same as my normal wheel.

Weight: This setup adds weight. If I am doing a ride with a lot of climbing I may use another setup. One option is to use the wheel cover and a normal front. I still get a lot of benefit from the wheel cover. Plus, it really is a PITA to take it off and on.

Rim type: For me, always clinchers. Besides the normal spare tubes, I also carry two patch kits, tire boots, and a spare tire. I'd have to have a really bad day for this not to be enough.

Experiences: In January I did a 200k with another recumbent on a similar bike. He had Zipp 404s with a wheel cover on the back, whereas I was running only normal wheels (Mavic CXP-21 rims, 28 spokes, 2x in the rear and radial in the front). On the flats I was using 240-250 watts to draft him while he was putting out 200 watts. After 5 hours of running at an average of 246 watts I finally had to let him go, and finished about 15 minutes behind him (he was the first finisher of about 75 people, and I was third).

At the 300k, I was running my aero setup, he was running the same thing, and my watts were much closer. I'll never match his efficiency simply because I am 6" taller and 30 lbs heavier. I was the first in (he turned back at the 75 mile mark, leaving me solo for the rest of the event), with the next person 1.5 hours behind.

I used my aero setup for the Death Valley Double on March 1st. Huge mistake. The cross winds made my bike very unstable, at times almost uncontrollable. I'd have done better with a regular front wheel and the wheel cover. By the time I was finished I was exhausted simply from battling the bike.

In mid-March I did a 400k in Arizona. Running the wheel cover and a regular front was a good choice. It was windy, and the Spinergy would have been problematic.

This coming weekend is the Davis 24. The wheel cover will be on for the entire event. For the 150 mile, 8000 feet of climbing day loop, I haven't decided between the Spinergy and a regular front. On the night loops I will definitely run the Spinergy because I can change it out if the cross winds are too bad.

The weekend after is a 400k. I will be running the full aero setup, trying for the fastest time.

How your experience might be different from mine: Simply put, your sensitivity to the center of pressure (CoP) moving is going to be different from mine because of how far back on the bike I sit. The farther back the CoP, the better. The wheel cover helps this, the Spinergy hurts. You on 404s may have handling problems in cross winds.

Recommendations: Look at some of the newer wheels, e.g. Williams or Flashpoint (sp?). Think about whether you can repair a broken spoke on the side of the road. I can't with the Spinergy, but I could if I had a 303 or 404.

Aero bars work, but how long can you stay in them? Some people can stay in them for hours. But what about the rest of the event? On a road bike I can't use them at all, but that's just me.

Aerospokes work, but I hear they are heavy. Maybe something like a Hed 3 would be lighter.

CliftonGK1

I used to ride Aerospokes on my tri-bike back in the early 90s. They're easy to own because they require no truing; ever. The big drawback is weight. Those suckers are heavy, and with the wide "spoke" profile they can get a bit squirrelly in a high crosswind.

To the OP -
If you're wanting an aero wheelset and concerned about breaking a proprietary spoke, maybe consider the Reynolds DV66 rims. They're selling them now as separate rims in tubular or clincher instead of just fully build wheels, and you can build them up on whatever hub/spoke combo you'd like.

mattm

a local rando who did the 2007 PBP in ~50 hours (yes, five-oh!) uses "classic" wheels (and a bike from the 70's no less).

https://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/PBP2007.html



but then again, he just might be super-human!

Six jours

FWIW, you don't glue on a spare on the road. You pre-glue the tire and allow the glue to dry before packing the tire. The glue stays a little tacky, and along with the glue left on the rim, provides an adequate bond as long as you don't get really aggressive in the corners. Speed in changing tires is one of the few advantages of tubulars outside of competition