Pedal Wench

I've done tons of centuries - supported and unsupported. I've done over 330-miles in 24-hours at Sebring two years in a row - 344 last week. But, I just signed up for my first brevet - 300k, in two weeks.

Anything specific tips for a brevet that you have for a brevet-newbie? I know that I'll be required to have lights, vest and ankle bands, and the cue sheet will be my best friend. Any other hints/tips/advice?

spokenword

Don't lose your brevet card.

Otherwise, yeah, it seems like you've already got a lot of applicable experience -- distance, unsupported, navigation, etc. A brevet really isn't all that different from an unsupported century, except of course, for all of the ACP-related rules like getting your card stamped at each control. All of the other concerns about diet, fitness, repair skills and bike fit apply.

Pedal Wench

*goes off in search of "ACP-related rules"* That's the stuff I need to be aware of...

CliftonGK1

Link to RUSA rules for riders.

The Octopus 

Brevets tend to be much hillier than ultra rides (brevets in Ohio average about 60 feet/mile), though if you're a Florida local this general rule wouldn't apply to you. If you're riding brevets anywhere other than Sunshine State, dial it back a notch more than you normally would for a ride of that length, lest the hills get the best of you later in the ride.

Pedal Wench

I'm in Georgia - brevet in GA too. Compared to Sebring, an anthill will be climb... so, good point to take it a bit easier. Zone 2 for the duration?

evblazer

I try and put my effort at 90% or less of what I'd do on my commute. When I wear a HR monitor on some hilly routes (~6000ft in 200k) I try and keep it under 150 on hills which if I remember correctly is under my measured AT by 18. On flats it is significantly less. My overall avg HR on my last 200k was 117 which according to my Doctor isn't even exercise

I think one of the nicest things about my first 200k was that I rode it with a few other riders and we stayed together much of the time. Not like a paceline or drafting just withing viewing distance or chatting side by side. Whether or not you think you'll be with another rider or group I try and make sure I have what I need to fix many common issues that might happen on your bike. I carry far more then I probably should.

I like to keep my brevet card (and receipts if required like on a permanent) in a ziplock even if it is dry out. You never know when your gonna spill or sweat on it accidently.

Pedal Wench

That's the stuff I need to know. Bring it on!

Oh - do the controls generally know what to do? Do I just go to the cash register and ask for a signature?

evblazer

I generally will buy a V8 Fusion at a control or a fierce grape G20 if no v8 You are of course under no obligation to buy anything and could just go up and ask for them to sign it.
I put it on the counter along with my brevet card and at least 90% of the time they will volunteer to sign it. If not after I hand them the cash I ask if they could initial and put the time to prove I was there and they sign.

Now usually I'm not the first one there sooo a bunch of people already had their card signed so the first people may have had more trouble then I. On the other hand I did a permanent with just my wife and we had no trouble when we just asked if they could initial/time our cards for our bike ride.

Are you doing the Grovetown, GA Route: Wrens, GA; Sandersville, GA; Sparta, GA; Washington, GA on the 7th? If that is the case then it is an official brevet so no reciepts should be neccessary.

Here is a poorly filled out brevet card but I have seen worse get credit. The ACP may be pickier then RUSA or a local permanent owner however.
1) We Did not Qualify (DNQ) due to time .. missed the close time on the 2nd line control
2) Not sure how important but it is in 12 hour time they say 24 hours time.
3) The third check in was signed on the wrong line.
4) DNQ'd time over all but after missing the first control we didn't rush and were stopped due to multiple train crossings

Edit: Yes yes.. if we actually left on time instead of getting signed 7 minutes late then in theory we would have been fine. After having a pulley explode when we attempted to leave and finally rolling out at 7:30 probably did us in though. On a Brevet the first control (start) would be pre-stamped.

mattm

depends on if it's manned or not - if it's just a gas station, you might have to explain a little (we've had to a few times) what the deal is, and that they aren't liable for anything if they sign. but usually if you aren't the first to arrive, they know what to do by the time you get there.

also it's always a good idea to at least buy something when you get your signature, so that you are a customer and not just someone off the street asking for their time. and sometimes controls are reused on other rides, so you don't want to spoil the welcome.

another thing that kind of caught me off guard on my first night-brevet was actually reading a cuesheet at night. make sure you've got a helmet-mounted light or some way to illuminate that sheet at night! this took me a few brevets to get right, and i'm still working on it.

also remember that (usually) you need to make it to the controls in time, as well as to the finish in time. on my first brevet, i got a DNQ because a friend of mine bonked, and we missed one control by 10 mins. made it to the end on time, but it wasn't enough.

mattm

also, most brevet cards stipulate 24-hour time formats, but it seems like most clerks don't do this, and that in the end it doesn't matter.

does anyone know that the 24-hour time format does matter on the brevet card? doesn't seem like it does, but i've always wondered if we should have them correct it.

and one more tip: if you see a jug of water outside a control, it very could have been left there by another rando! out here it's very common for the first group at a control to buy a big jug of water and leave it out for others to use as well. so don't feel weird about leaving some extra water behind - someone may very well use it!

Pedal Wench

It is the Grovetown Brevet. Thanks -- this is just what I was looking for.

Randochap

mattm, it doesn't matter, but use AM/PM if using 12hr.

Regarding water: I'm not going to pick up a jug of clear liquid I find outside a gas station and fill my bottles with it

I do prefer to find an ordinary tap, rather than buy water though.

Rando pages @ VeloWeb

mattm

c'mon, live a little!

evblazer

Hey when it is 105+ out and you have been out exposed to the sun for the last 6 hours err.. Well at least it is good for rinsing your hair or cooling off your legs.. I really enjoyed finding a half melted bag of ice one day that was nearly the highlight of my ride.


For me I can not use other peoples tap water or hose water. Heck I won't touch water fountains *shiver*. On a recent 200k I couldn't even use the facilities. A sign stating "Don't flush the tp put it in the waste basket or it'll clog the system" was enough to make me turn right around after that previous chap spent a good 15 minutes in there.

Oh that reminds me.. Bring handi wipes or similar items for bike related on the road repairs and any other cleaning issue. If the bathroom looks like it might be clean at a control use it even if you don't have to.

khearn

You know you've been out in the sun too long when a half-melted bag of ice is the highlight of your day.

CliftonGK1

On STP last year I took ice cubes from the cooler full of bottled water and filled up my middle jersey pocket.

I'm OK with tap/hose/fountain water, unless it's really stinky well water. I was on a long backpacking trip once and the only fill up I could get was well water with so much sulfur that it smelled like hard-boiled eggs. *Blarf!*

The Octopus 

pacing: Zone 2 should be good. I don't personally ride with a HRM; my standard on brevets is to ask myself throughout the ride, "would this pace drop my wife if she were here with me?" If yes, I slow down. Especially true on the climbs. Mrs. Octopus is an excellent, experienced cyclist, but in her own words, she "climbs backwards."

control protocol: My understanding in the US is that the RBAs or ride organizers are the only ones who see the brevet cards. They don't get sent to RUSA or the ACP; the validation stickers find their way from France to your RBA, applies them to the card and who would have long-since reported the ride as qualifying. So if you're good with the RBA, you're good with RUSA and the ACP.

I've done brevets in a fair number of states and the procedures and norms do vary a bit. Some want proof positive of passage; something objective like a receipt or a stamp (the one the store uses to endorse checks) is required. Others would happily accept only initials and the time from a store clerk. Still others staff 100% of controls with volunteers, so none of this is an issue -- an official will validate you en route.

Losing a brevet card could be the kiss of death. There maybe a procedure -- I cannot precisely recall -- for having riders vouch for the presence and passage of a card-less rider through the controls. Best practices: don't lose the d*** card.

Control etiquette in most places (though moreso in the East than West, I've noticed) is that each rider should buy something, even just a pack of gum, from any store clerk you're asking to validate your card. It's a common courtesy, and no one is in that much of a hurry that they can't engage in a small transaction. Want to race? Join the UMCA.

Having been the first guy through controls a number of times, my standard spiel is to ask the clerk to initial (and stamp if applicable) the card and put the time in the box I'm pointing to, so that I can prove that I made it here. 90% of the time you get asked where you started and where you're going and then you receive praise and looks of astonishment for your endeavor. I've never had a problem or anyone refuse. I always tell them that I'm the first of however many riders who will be coming through for the day. Some especially diligent RBAs will have called the store before the ride to indicate that there'll be riders coming through -- especially the small stores in rural areas appreciate this and will stock more water and sports drink in the cooler than would normally be the case.

Leaving water and sports drinks for others is common practice in many places here in the US. It's custom in some places that the first group to a control will buy gallons of water and big bags of ice and leave them in a shaded, obvious area for those who follow behind. (The fast guys also sometimes buy the beer and pizza at the finish. Typically this is arranged like this: "You want to ride off the front? Fine. You can buy the beer this time.")

secret and info controls: Read up on these in the RUSA rules. Short version: stay meticulously on the route and make sure that every block on your card gets filled in as instructed and where instructed and you'll be fine. Carry either a very good memory or a pencil (note: ballpoint pens freeze up well above freezing) for the info controls. Know how many cubic feet of concrete are in the dam you just rode across? Well, you might need to for your ride to be official, and you might not remember it after a few hundred more miles.

StephenH

I believe I have read comments to the effect that one should carry a pen and possibly a blank stamped postcard along, which are not your normal century items. Also the double tail lights.

bmike

and more light isn't always better for cue reading. play around with the settings or color of your light. first night start i had way too much light - would blind me every time i'd look down at the cue - then my night vision would be fried. repeat all morning. i've come to like using a red led light for cue reading. keeps the night vision intact, doesn't blind you or your riding partners.

and - if you are in a group with a night start - watch where you point that headlamp. its really annoying to get blasted every time you turn and chat - and its even more annoying to be in front pulling and someone behind you is bobbing away with a headlamp - all those shadows bouncing around... constantly having to adjust to my lights, then my lights + residual from the helmet light... etc.

Machka 

Have a look over my brevet stories.

https://www.machka.net/brevetstories.htm

And a few other comments:

• Yes, use a ziplock for your brevet card and pen and/or pencil.
• Use a ziplock for your map and cue sheet too unless you've got a really good map case. My first map case leaked, the one I've got now is much better.
• Use a map case, don't tuck your map and cue sheet into a pocket or you'll be stopping at every intersection to dig it out and check it again.
• Use a helmet light or other little light to read your map once it starts to get dark.
• Always bring a jacket.

As for the controls ...

Most of the brevets I've been on have been self-supported. On those ones, the control is usually a town, and it is up to us which business establishment we want to use to get our cards signed. If you are in a group, and you know that several of the others have been into a particular gas station already, you shouldn't have too much explaining to do. If you're the first one there, you might have to explain a bit. I usually just tell them that I'm doing a long ride, and I need to have proof that I've been to their town. When I tell them that, they'll usually sign with no problems ... or sometimes they'll use the official gas station stamp, or whatever. And if the place is way out in the middle of nowhere, brace yourself for lots of questions.

Oh, yes ... definitely buy something if you're using a gas station or restaurant as your signing place. I usually pick up a bottle of water, and a bottle of orange pop, at least ... fill my bottles with the water, and drink the orange pop. It helps keep up good relations with the community, and keeps me hydrated.

As for the time, as long as there's an am or pm, it can be 12-hour time.

In my experience, you can arrive late on one control (even on the PBP), but you must make up the time by the next control. If you don't make up the time by the next control the officials figure the chances of you finishing in time are really low.

I have lost my card, and on a 1200K too. It was on the Great Southern Randonnee in Australia. The route was an out and back, and I accidentally left my card at the sleeping control for the first night. All I did was to get the gas station people etc. to sign my map beside the town name until I got back to that control again, then I picked up my card and continued on. It was all valid. Now, the Australians are very laid back about things, so that might not work for all events.

mattm

that totally ruins it for me - i thought the cards were mailed to france and back! interesting to know.

i'd imagine the ride organizer would tell you if a postcard was needed. also i don't think double tail lights are required, are they? a backup is always good, and i suppose it can't hurt to have more than one light in the rear, but i don't think you need to have two on at all times.

Machka 

The way the Alberta Randonneurs handles the "cards" (a piece of paper we have printed from the Alberta Randonneur website) is that the person who organizes the brevet collects the "cards" for the rides he/she organizes. (i.e. I organize the Red Deer Brevets, so I collect the "cards" for those rides)

Then I fire off an email to let the person who handles the communications between the Alberta Randonneurs and the ACP (someone in Calgary) know who successfully finished their rides, and in what time. That person sends an email to the ACP, and the ACP adds the riders to their list, issues a completed ride number, and sends out the stamp.

The person who handles the communications between the Alberta Randonneurs and the ACP notifies the webmaster for our site, and the completed ride number is posted there. That's all you need when you fill out forms to apply for rides like the PBP.

At the end of the season, I mail all the "cards", for all the rides in together, and if the person who handles the communications between the Alberta Randonneurs and the ACP feels so inclined, he attaches the stamps and mails them back to me. That rarely happens though. In fact, since 2005, I can't remember seeing a returned "card".

We also do not get medals or pins or anything like that for completing our rides ... just a number we can use to apply for longer events.


I usually have one taillight mounted on my bicycle, and another in a ziplock bag in my handlebar bag. I find heavy rains sometimes kill taillights so I don't like to ride with both on my bicycle at all times. I prefer to keep one protected from the rain for when the other dies.

Pedal Wench

Thanks everyone -- this is all such great info! Do I need to register with RUSA before my ride?

StephenH

Yeah, I was doing a little more reading there. On the taillights, "At least one of the rear lights must be in a steady (rather than flashing) mode." So if you want a blinking taillight, you also need a 2nd one. Or just use a single nonblinking one. Also, "backup lighting systems and/or spare bulbs are strongly recommended in case the primary system fails and cannot be repaired on the roadside."

On the postcard thing, "For unmanned checkpoints...the rider may either (1) mail in a postcard... or (2) write into their brevet card identifying information from a predetermined landmark or sign...The organizer has the discretion to determine which option is to be allowed for a given checkpoint." So yeah, they should tell you ahead of time if that's required.

And a couple of questions from me: Are brevet cards all a standard size? Or do you have a 3x5 card at one event and a 8-1/2 x 11 at the next one? And where do you actually keep the cue sheet while riding?