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Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

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Old 08-31-09, 08:48 PM   #1
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No rear rack brazeons -- Can I use the skewers?

I eyeballed the rack and it will fit with the skewers through the lower rack screw holes. Is there any problem with this? I may have to get longer skewers. And, it will make wheel removal a little more difficult, but not much. I don't intend to carry touring weight, only long ride weight.

Thanks

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Old 08-31-09, 11:00 PM   #2
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p-clips
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Old 09-01-09, 12:50 AM   #3
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Since you are posting in the long distance cycling forum, I will assume you aren't going to be carrying much weight. If the question is for a touring bike for loaded touring, you should go look in the touring forum. Long distance cyclists are similar to tourists but don't have the good sense to stop for the night.

If you are setting up a bike for brevets, a seat post mounted rack should work fine.
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Old 09-01-09, 06:05 AM   #4
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Putting an extra load on the quick release skewers probably isn't a good idea.
During my latest brevet (My first 600k! Woohoo!) i met a french cyclotourist who had broken the rear skewer. He couldn't repair it, so he had to push his fully loaded bike the next 45 km/28 miles.
Next brevet, I'm going to bring a spare skewer.
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Old 09-01-09, 06:18 AM   #5
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lots of folks do it, and successfully.
the mtb crowd has been doing it for awhile now.

the rack isn't resting completely on the skewer - the skewer should place enough pressure on the rack to keep it tight to the frame.

check out the tubus and old man mountain systems for this.
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Old 09-01-09, 06:59 AM   #6
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Check out the Quick Release Rack Mounting Kit from the Touring Store. Not only does it allow you to mount your rear rack to your skewer... but it also kicks the rack back a tad to give you more heel clearance on a frame with racier geometry.
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Old 09-01-09, 07:38 AM   #7
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I've got about 4k miles now on the Tubus rack that mounts using the rear skewer (can't remember the model name).

Zero problems, aside from a little more trouble removing/replacing the rear wheel, and I trust it a LOT more than p-clips.

The 20 pounds or so you have on a rack applies very little shear force to the skewer.
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Old 09-12-09, 09:14 PM   #8
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WWW.OldManMountain.com
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Old 09-13-09, 01:00 AM   #9
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I used a seatpost mounted rack for brevets but found that the center of gravity was too high. I switched to a frame rack with p-clips mounted on my Litespeed Classic Ti frame and that worked for a while until I was riding on a particularly bumpy brevet and the clips slipped down. After that I found a frame builder and had rack mounts welded on the frame -- that got the center of gravity lower than the p-clips and gave me peace of mind. The frame rack is also lighter than the seatpost rack.
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Old 09-13-09, 07:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydrated View Post
Check out the Quick Release Rack Mounting Kit from the Touring Store. Not only does it allow you to mount your rear rack to your skewer... but it also kicks the rack back a tad to give you more heel clearance on a frame with racier geometry.
I use this too, for credit card touring on my road bike. Works great.
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Old 09-13-09, 11:00 AM   #11
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P-clips will work, as long as you don't have a carbon frame or carbon seat stays. They'd probably work on carbon, but there is a chance that if you apply too much torque to the clamps that you could crack the seat stays.

I'd try a large saddlebag or something that attaches to the seatpost first, though.
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Old 09-14-09, 03:50 AM   #12
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P-clips will work, as long as you don't have a carbon frame or carbon seat stays. They'd probably work on carbon, but there is a chance that if you apply too much torque to the clamps that you could crack the seat stays.

I'd try a large saddlebag or something that attaches to the seatpost first, though.
P-clips work until they slip ... which they did on my Litespeed Ti frame. They also mount the rack higher.
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Old 09-16-09, 10:57 AM   #13
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www.CarouselDesignWorks.com
here's my current setup
i just finished Portland to Ventura
camped the whole way...
shelter, food, clothes, etc...

also used it for The Eastern Sierra Double 13:55hrs (last pic)
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Old 09-17-09, 07:29 AM   #14
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www.CarouselDesignWorks.com
here's my current setup
i just finished Portland to Ventura
camped the whole way...
shelter, food, clothes, etc...

also used it for The Eastern Sierra Double 13:55hrs (last pic)
i've got some epic bags on the way... the seat bag and the h-bar harness / bag.
combined with my jandd frame bag i think it will be a fast / light touring setup.

can't wait.
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Old 09-17-09, 09:44 AM   #15
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i've got some epic bags on the way... the seat bag and the h-bar harness / bag.
combined with my jandd frame bag i think it will be a fast / light touring setup.

can't wait.
you are correct, the setup yields a much faster bike.
the challenge is to reduce your gear.

rather than taking a bunch of camping gear and finding bags to cram it all into
its more like
put bags on your bike, then see what you can get into them

that is to say
the bags become the primary factor
rather than
the camping gear

i just finished a jaunt from PDX to Ventura,Ca
spent a few days in PDX then Astoria down HWY 1
August was the perfect month.
the weather was amazingly hospitable
that alone... was a major factor
plus the ultra convenience of all those little stores!
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Old 09-17-09, 10:00 AM   #16
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i will say this much about "high center of gravity"

the way the bags are on The Hunter, one day i had ventured around on some single track, and came across a section of dead fall, along a trickling creek, with the typical creek bed rocks. I rode as much as i care to, and walked...

when i approached a fallen tree, and the rest of the deadfall, I grabbed the bike from under the 2nd top tube of The Hunter, and the bike naturally fell onto the top of my hip, into my side.
the wheels easily rotate outward.

the bike is much easier to portage, albeit due to less weight, but more subtly, i was amazed in the genius of keeping the center gravity up high.

that is...
when the center of gravity is at top tube height, it pretty much falls right into the mid section of your body, which just happens to be the most stable

therefore...
suddenly, it is that much easier to actually portage your bike
and i mean...
to carry your bike across anything more than 3 steps up a small stair set of an even surface

albeit the load is definitely less than 20lbs

but what i am trying to point out... is the placement of that weight being center line
any kind of weight around the axle becomes weight at almost the furthest point of the fulcrum when it comes to actually picking your bike up to go over anything

along that tangent, i was amazed to realize how much less effort it is to raise the bike up to hip height, rotate the top tube into your side, vs... the traditional method of picking the bike up high enough to place the top tube above your shoulder, a la cyclocross method

obvious the distance of weight being raised, and the movement, very much "clean and jerk"-esq
rather with the frame bags, in this placement, simply pick the bike up, very much in "shoulder shrug"-esq fashion, and let the top tube now rest against your side.
much easier, much less effort, and able to portage further

again... albeit less than 20lbs of gear.

unless the rider happens to be Gigantopithecus.
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Old 09-17-09, 11:52 AM   #17
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Frame bags will make you more aerodynamic in a headwind, but can cause issues in a cross-wind. I'd be much more inclined to use one for offroad situations.

Lifting a bike may be easier with a higher center of gravity, but it will also result in slightly less stable handling. For most long distance events it's not really an issue, unless you like to carry a lot of gear, are marshaling a ride etc. But for heavier loads, I don't see the point of sacrificing ride quality for lifting, unless you plan to do cyclocross races in mid-tour (or are going off-road, and need to lift the bike a lot).
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Old 09-17-09, 12:12 PM   #18
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Frame bags will make you more aerodynamic in a headwind, but can cause issues in a cross-wind. I'd be much more inclined to use one for offroad situations.

Lifting a bike may be easier with a higher center of gravity, but it will also result in slightly less stable handling. For most long distance events it's not really an issue, unless you like to carry a lot of gear, are marshaling a ride etc. But for heavier loads, I don't see the point of sacrificing ride quality for lifting, unless you plan to do cyclocross races in mid-tour (or are going off-road, and need to lift the bike a lot).
definitely cannot carry as much as compared to panniers
or panniers and frame bag, et al

the handling issue... i'd honestly contest that point.
x amount of garb into x amount of space
in this case frame bags more limited in space than panniers
fame bag is much less bulky than panniers

most drag comes from what rolls off the back of the bike
if you read into Zipp, you'll discover that the aero process accounts for mostly side winds
rarely do we ride directly into the wind, usually the wind is coming from the side to various degrees

the most effective place to address aero is from the point of view, of "the trash you leave behind"
that is...
what turbulence is rolling off your back

so my touring buddy used a recumbent from PDX to Ventura
he was steadfast on the aero advantage
i could hardly stand to point out that aero is a simple matter of rounding your back, and bringing in your elbows to the knees

somewhere north of Davenport, we rolled side by side at around 45mph, i simply tucked in, and rolled by at 51.4mph, then sat up a little and let him roll by. thereby demonstrating the effect of "the suck" that rolls behind.

so in essence that funky long seatpost bag... is really a teardrop
that handlebar roll... is perfect to place your forearms, parallel with the ground, elbows extended past the knees, with the knees against the top tube, rounded back, and a light backpack.
in my case i was using a new Ortleib velocity. a camelbak MULE or Chaos would have sufficed and been more aero than the Ortleib

here's the bike with panniers
using OMM racks
www.OldManMountain.com

frame bags vs panniers, are literally totally different

if i had the cash, I'd lace up an 80mm deep carbon rear rim, with a 60mm front
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Old 09-17-09, 01:38 PM   #19
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OK, let me try this again.

For most but not all LD riders, they will not carry enough weight to effect handling. If you're carrying 40+ lbs, carrying that weight high on the bike will degrade handling compared to keeping it low. Even small changes in the center of gravity (e.g. cross bike vs racing bike) can be noticeable.

Frame & saddle bags also don't have the carry capacity of panniers, and I'd use them for very different purposes, so I don't see much reason to compare them.

Your comments on aerodynamics don't seem to make much sense, or aren't addressing what I'm talking about, namely frame packs like the Epic. Saddle bags and handlebar bags aren't likely to have a big effect (although aerodynamics is highly counterintuitive, so we don't know for sure without doing tests...); but a frame pack is like a big sail in the middle of your bike -it'd be like using a disc wheel without getting any of the benefits. Ergo I think you'd be better off with a big saddlebag than a frame pack unless you're doing off-road riding.

Also, recumbents have a huge and well-documented aerodynamic advantage (particularly on the flats), far more than what you can even get with a TT position. Beating one recumbent for 30 seconds on what I presume was a downhill is hardly valid evidence to the contrary. Mind you, if I rode with someone who pointed that out every 10 minutes I'd be ticked off, but that wouldn't make him wrong.
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Old 09-17-09, 08:17 PM   #20
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so my buddy's average daily speeds were around 10-12mph (recumbent)
mine at least 15... for a few days 18.2 to 18.8mph average speed coming in at over 80miles for each of those days.
bikes are inherently about going up hill (Eastern Sierra Double... over 12k ft in climbing)
unless you happen to live at Bonneville
in Tamales Bay, i got tired of running all around, so i started pushing him up hills until Morro Bay.

recumbents are a bit of an anomaly... on paper they say this, in the real world they work like that (usually)
unless the real world is a test lab
or they wear a protective "sock"

now i think HPV's and Velomobiles are pretty cool.
i almost bought a Go-One, until i realized i'd need to find a parking spot for it.
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Old 09-21-09, 07:59 PM   #21
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Muh. "Norco Streamliner". Nuff said. Keeps the weight more inboard than any other rack I've seen, too, and tough as nails (50kg capacity I think?)
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