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Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

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Old 12-13-09, 08:43 PM   #1
clarkgriswold
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What do you consumer per hour on brevets?

[Consume not Consumer]
I did my first ride 100 miles or longer yesterday, which was a 200k.
I underate the first 2.5 hours but eventually ate my way back out of it, and the last 17 miles were good, but the ride was very tough for awhile.

Not looking for long distance racers or RAAM folks, but century and brevet riders. (unless the nutrition is the same across all types of riding.)

While I ate nothing for just over the first two hours, I had mostly fig newtons and 5 gu packets plus 4 bannanas, one chocolate mile and a few gatorades plus water with ZYM tablets.

I'm considering NUUN tablets and Hammer Gels next time, but have also read good reviews of HEED and Perpeteum.

I know that there is a lot of personal variance here but would like to know what works for you.

Last edited by clarkgriswold; 12-13-09 at 08:45 PM. Reason: corrected "consumer" but can't change a title...
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Old 12-13-09, 11:05 PM   #2
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Don't know what to tell you about volume, seems to me that you may have eaten too much. I'm pretty sure I could do a fairly tough 200k on 4 bananas, a couple of nuun and the proper amount of water. Eating does depend on your training level, particularly over "short" distances like a 200k.
You should definitely eat something after the first hour.
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Old 12-13-09, 11:42 PM   #3
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The distance doesn't really matter. What matters is the time you are on the bike and the amount of effort you are putting out. One mistake is using Gu as food. It's not meant for that. Gu's and Gel's are meant you give you a quick boost of energy and doesn't have the nutrition in it to sustain you on even a century ride. NUUN and HEED are electrolyte replacements, a better version of Gatorade. They are not food either. Products like Perpetuem, Sustained Energy and Spiz are food! Generally you want to take in between 250-350 cal/hour. You body will not digest more than that. Doesn't matter if your doing a century or RAAM. If you eat more than that, your body will either pass it right through or you will get sick. You can use fuels like Perpetuem on a century or you can use real food. Either one works. The nice thing about using a fuel like perpetuem is that it is easy to keep track and make sure you are getting the proper calories.
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Old 12-14-09, 03:30 AM   #4
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I aim for 250-300 calories per hour on all rides of about 2 hours or more, and I prefer as much real food as possible on a ride ... rather than energy bars and various other energy supplements.

As for liquid, it is recommended to aim for about one 750 ml bottle of water and/or sports drink every 1 to 1.5 hours ... a bit more if it is hot and windy out.

If it is warm to hot out, don't forget about your electrolytes. You can get electrolytes from real food (salted almonds, for example, are a great source of electrolytes), or from various pills and powders.
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Old 12-14-09, 07:18 AM   #5
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thanks so far. I understand the 250-300 calories, but am curious exactly how/what you are taking to get to that.
1 20oz water bottle of gatorade I think is 150 calories, just googled Fig Newtons and they have 55 calories each.

It looks like if I drank two water bottles full of gatorade, a gu packet (100 calories) and a couple fig newtons in an hour I would have had too many calories. (I had Gus almost every other hour not every hour though) . I now understand I shouldn't be using the Gu to get me those calories.

Maybe one water bottle, one gatorade, one gel, and a couple fig newtons per hour? That seems like a heck of a lot of Gel packets to take!
I'm not a big fan of gatorade it's just easy to find. Should I substitute the electrolyte tablets for the Gatorade and drink water? (something like Heed/Nuun/Zym) Then use Perpeteum and/or Fig newtons for the calories?


I'm sure that you would mix it up over an entire ride but just trying to get some ideas of amounts. Obviously I need to go read the caloric content per fig newton so I can understand that part too.

The ride total time took me 11 hours. I really was a slug this time. I had hoped for 8 hours, revised it to 9 very early, then 10...before finally resigning myself to the fact it was going to take 11.
I do feel like nutrition played a part as I really felt poorly for about half of the time - and I want to learn more to make sure I can eliminate that as a possible cause. The fact I felt better towards the end of the ride is why I'm not completely blaming my training habits.

Last edited by clarkgriswold; 12-14-09 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 12-14-09, 07:49 AM   #6
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http://www.yehudamoon.com/index.php?date=2008-05-19
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Old 12-14-09, 02:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
thanks so far. I understand the 250-300 calories, but am curious exactly how/what you are taking to get to that.
1 20oz water bottle of gatorade I think is 150 calories, just googled Fig Newtons and they have 55 calories each.

Maybe one water bottle, one gatorade, one gel, and a couple fig newtons per hour? That seems like a heck of a lot of Gel packets to take!
I prefer to go with a couple granola bars, or a cookie, or a banana and a granola bar, or a packet of salted almonds, or whatever. Feel free to experiment with things other than fig newtons. And I bring 2 packets of gel along, just in case. If all goes well, I don't need them.
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Old 12-14-09, 06:22 PM   #8
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1. What !? No responses re: Yehuda !?

2. I wish I had the text of the late October, banterish, e-mail exchange I had with MikeD (VP-RUSA): the conclusion was "what was I thinking? Of course bananas, fig newtons and Snicker's bars. Especially for a ride on Oct-31 !"
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Old 12-14-09, 07:16 PM   #9
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You are kind of on the right track. The 250-350 calories needs to come from food! Not Gels and electrolyte replacement products. I don't even count those calories. Since you have some experience with Hammer products you might want to go to their website and look at their literature. They, of course, have a bias towards their product but their info is pretty much on the mark. Getting your nutrition right on long distance rides is one of the most difficult things for many people to do and the further the distance the harder it becomes. Some people have iron stomachs and can eat anything, others can only handle specific foods. Everyone is different. I used perpetuem for a long time but I can't stomach the stuff after about 600k. Spiz works great for me on longer distances. I also like some real food on long rides. The only problem you'll have eating "real food" is that it can be very difficult to track your calories to know where you are at so you have to go by "feel". The problem with that is that by the time you are starting to "feel" hungry it is too late! If I don't get enough food and start to bonk, I will use a Gel to give me that quick boost so I can get some real food in me. That's the only time I use Gel's. We can all tell you what recipie works for us but it may or may not work for you. You are going to have to do some experimenting to see what works for you. It may take you a few rides or a year but you will figure it out.
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Old 12-15-09, 08:35 AM   #10
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Hmmm......
Its been my experience that all calories "count" wether they be from gels and powders or "real food."
Mostly, it has to do with your body's metabolism, I think.

I find simple carbohydrates instantly accessible as energy....that is, Coke(!) , most candy, packets of refined sugar, and the like.
The instant it goes into my mouth it goes out of my body as musclle energy. Gels fall into this category. Heed , too , perhaps. Though these also have electrolytes which have longer term value for your body.

Complex carbs require a bit more time to become energy, but have more nutrients in them to sustain your body in the long term. Bananas and such fall here.

finally, on long distance rides, your body needs some protein.....not right away, but after a couple hours of hard work your body needs some protein lest it starts to get it from your own lean muscle mass. Perpetuem has protein as does beef jerky, a chicken salad sandwich, etc.


So, all these things are "food," that is, they have calories and are converted by your body into energy.....its just how soon that energy is avalible for your body to use.

So I try to take a bit of each at a rate of about 250-300 calories per hour.....simple carbs, complex carbs, and a bit of protein.

Works for me.

Cheers,
Cyril
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Old 12-15-09, 11:55 AM   #11
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Hmmm......
Its been my experience that all calories "count" wether they be from gels and powders or "real food."...
Cyril
Yup, I agree. 500 calories of gel provides the same number of calories as 500 calories of HEED, perpetuem, pbj sandwich, energy bars, etc. What gel doesn't provide is protein, which is why you cannot do a long ride on gel alone (at least not without scavenging protein from your own muscles).

Before the ride, I typically will try to eat about an hour before the start, e.g. a breakfast of pancakes and eggs or bacon, to get some carbs, fat, and protein in the system ready to be used.

I try to keep a steady consumption of 300 to 400 cal/hr. I try to get about 2/3 of my calories from "real food" at convenience stores (eating some at the store and the rest as I ride), and the rest from what I have on my bike. But sometimes the convenience stores can have very little that is appealing and I have to rely more on what I carry. Really hot weather can be a big problem because even though you need to eat, you just can't face any food. Really cold weather can be a big problem because you need to eat a lot more, just to keep yourself warm, but it is hard to eat when pulling down your facemask freezes your face, plus the food you're trying to eat is frozen solid, as is the water or gatorade that you'd like to chase it down with.

Anyway, on the bike, I typically carry two 5-ounce flasks of Hammergel (three for a very hilly ride), two PBJ sandwiches, and four or five energy bars of various kinds. I usually come back with a half to a third of that stuff, but which part doesn't get eaten varies a lot. Sometimes I find I can't face the thought of PBJ while other times gel or energy bars just taste awful. The main thing is that the variety makes it so that I can usually force something down when I know that I need to eat but nothing seems appealing, either on the bike or in the convenience store.

Nick
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Old 12-15-09, 10:08 PM   #12
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I'm more like Yehuda when eating on a bike ride.
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Old 12-16-09, 09:19 PM   #13
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What do you consumer per hour on brevets?
How much do you breath when you ride?
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Old 12-18-09, 09:53 PM   #14
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I'm more like Yehuda when eating on a bike ride.
+1 I can exist on gels if I'm doing a marathon, but I need "real" food if I'm riding a bike. I bring homemade granola bars that have grains, dried fruit, honey or molasses, and nuts, and they sustain me for a couple of hours and then I need to eat a real meal after about 40-50 miles. I tend to get sick of food on really long rides and have to force myself to eat, so I've found that liquid calories really help to sustain me in the later miles.
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