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Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

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Old 05-22-10, 08:19 PM   #26
Nola_Gal
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Okay, I did a couple of rides with the credit card fix. The first was with different insoles and while it was better, my feet still felt pressured. Today, I found the thinnest socks I had and put the thinner stock insole back in over the credit card. That seems to have done it. The shoes are plenty long enough so right now I have a couple of socks balled up and pushed up in the forefoot area. I know they don't stretch, but being new shoes, I'm hoping I can loosen that part up a bit. (I could leave that first velcro strap undone but the sides are a bit stiff so it doesn't seem to have much effect right now. Hopefully some more wear will add some flex.)

I'm also working on getting my cadence up to at least the mid 80's...I realized through all this 'testing' that I tend to mash through headwinds which I'm certain hasn't helped.

Thanks everyone! Hopefully I'll be posting here again as a real randonneuse!
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Old 06-15-17, 02:32 PM   #27
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Important! Figured out my wife's hot foot

Well last season my wife started getting the proverbial hot foot on a bike. We read all the stuff on line and did all the recommended things including bike fitting, socks, new shoes, and all the rest. It got better but still not solved. And I mean we read everything and tried everything. She pretty much lost the season.

Well last night we finally figured this out. Ladies pay attention here. We did over 40 miles on Saturday and no problem. We did 15 miles last night and she is in severe pain? We had read heat exacerbates this condition but temperature was almost the same. Well it dawned on us she had worked that day. She is a person who is vertically challenged, so she wears fabulous high heals. Looks terrific but we have discovered wearing these all day and riding later is a bad combo.

High heals are notoriously bad for feet. One of the things that causes hot foot is a narrow if not constrained toe box pressuring the nerve. Well guess what high heels does to the foot all day. For you ladies suffering from this or even guys, check out what you wore that day or the day before prior to your ride. Especially for the ladies, i would venture to say you may have your answer.
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Old 06-16-17, 03:06 PM   #28
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I ride with M530 pedals and LG MTB shoes. I average 10,000+ miles a year. Never had a hot spot since I've been riding. Before you go and spend money on different shoes and pedals, try the credit card hack that someone has already mentioned and play with your cleat position until you find a good spot for them. They should be positioned directly under the ball of your feet.
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Old 06-16-17, 11:08 PM   #29
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this thread makes me sad since so many of the people posting in it no longer post. I was still fighting hot spots when this thread died down the first time. I'm glad I didn't listen to the people that think pedals have anything to do with it. Maybe if you are wearing sneakers, but ymmv. For long distances, i.e., 100 miles is a short ride, I find that shoe volume is everything. At about 100 miles, like clockwork, I'll get hotfoot in certain shoes. These are shoes that fit exactly right at zero miles. The issue is nerve compression as my feet swell a little, probably the nerve that comes in on the outside of the foot. I find that shoes with large toe volume avoid hotfoot for me.
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Old 06-16-17, 11:48 PM   #30
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That might explain why I went away from my clipless shoes, I probably bought them too tight, as advised by the shop bloke who was actually a much respected racing coach here. Since then I've gone to a skateboard shoe that I tie loose (I'm a flat pedal and toe clips man at the moment).
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Old 06-17-17, 09:53 AM   #31
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yes, racers think they need tight shoes, I know I did back when I raced. Turns out that it really doesn't matter all that much, and the downside can be excruciating pain.
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Old 06-17-17, 10:28 AM   #32
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IMHO The SPuD cleat in a walkable recessed pocket rubber sole shoe, is likely why the pressure is concentrated


a hard sole road shoe with a 3 bolt Look type cleat/pedal will suck walking far,
As will the SPD Pontoon cleat , to keep those pedals..

but the rigid shoe will better support the whole foot.

'clipless pedal' shoes tendency to let you remove your foot from the shoe as easily as get the cleat released,
has people making their shoe tighter..





....




....

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Old 06-17-17, 12:30 PM   #33
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IMHO The SPuD cleat in a walkable recessed pocket rubber sole shoe, is likely why the pressure is concentrated.
I just rode my bike for 25 hours straight in hot weather without a problem using SPD pedals. I suffered from exactly zero problems with hotfoot. And my shoes aren't really that stiff either.
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Old 06-17-17, 01:32 PM   #34
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this thread makes me sad since so many of the people posting in it no longer post. I was still fighting hot spots when this thread died down the first time. I'm glad I didn't listen to the people that think pedals have anything to do with it. Maybe if you are wearing sneakers, but ymmv. For long distances, i.e., 100 miles is a short ride, I find that shoe volume is everything. At about 100 miles, like clockwork, I'll get hotfoot in certain shoes. These are shoes that fit exactly right at zero miles. The issue is nerve compression as my feet swell a little, probably the nerve that comes in on the outside of the foot. I find that shoes with large toe volume avoid hotfoot for me.
+1. I was on a 400k (or was it a 600k) a few years ago, and just in excruciating pain. I had already loosened my laces a bunch and took my shoes off at every stop, and it wasn't enough. In desperation, I took the insoles out and stuffed them into my handlebar bag. The relief was instantaneous and glorious. Of course, the smart thing would have been to lower my saddle to adjust for the increased leg extension, but my group was in a hurry to finish.

I do think there is something to saddle height in general, though. Left to my own devices, I've tended to adjust my saddle a little too high, and that results in toes-down pedaling that repeatedly pushes my feet toward the front of the shoes. Lowering my saddle so that my feet are in a relatively flat position helped a little with my foot pain situation.
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Old 06-17-17, 01:35 PM   #35
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I just rode my bike for 25 hours straight in hot weather without a problem using SPD pedals. I suffered from exactly zero problems with hotfoot. And my shoes aren't really that stiff either.
I've had several pair of MTB shoes from different manufactures and as of yet, and no matter what I've done, I've never been able to flex or bend the soles of any of them. Other than maybe being an advertising ploy to charge more money for "stiffer" shoes, I'm wondering, "if they don't flex or bend, just how stiff does a sole have to be?"
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Old 06-18-17, 07:10 AM   #36
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anecdote offerers, to the contrary, tell the OP your secret?

your shoes of the godz fix. I got some Italian made for Nike Mountain bike shoes ,

though I no longer have a Spud pedal on any of my bikes..
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Old 06-18-17, 11:01 AM   #37
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anecdote offerers, to the contrary, tell the OP your secret?
I did, shoe volume. Particularly in the front of the shoe. Plus, the OP is long gone, this is a seven year old thread.

The shoes I am using right now are Giro HV mid-range MTB shoe. They probably are relatively stiff through the center of the sole, but I can feel them flex when walking.

One strange thing about shoes is that they can irritate the front of your foot by being too high or pinching at the ankle. There are two nerve bundles that go into the foot, and one of the easiest places to pinch them is at the ankle. I had some shoes that seem to give problems there.

The person that resurrected this thread mentioned his wife had problems after wearing high heels. I assume these caused her feet to swell. Hard to see another mechanism.

I also use prescription orthotics with a metatarsal bump. The bump spreads the toes so the nerves going to the toes don't get pinched. I don't get numb toes any more, but I don't think people describe numb toes as hotfoot. You can get add-on metatarsal pads or insoles with them built in.

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I do think there is something to saddle height in general, though. Left to my own devices, I've tended to adjust my saddle a little too high, and that results in toes-down pedaling that repeatedly pushes my feet toward the front of the shoes. Lowering my saddle so that my feet are in a relatively flat position helped a little with my foot pain situation.
I tend to pedal toes-down when I'm tired. My seat is probably a bit too high, but no more than 4mm. Pedaling toes down has the effect of moving it down quite a bit. Not sure it's worth messing with, I just try not to smoosh my toes too much. I have a lot of bad habits after 300km, I try to keep things together the best I can and practice good form while training.
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Old 06-18-17, 12:03 PM   #38
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I did, shoe volume. Particularly in the front of the shoe. Plus, the OP is long gone, this is a seven year old thread.

The shoes I am using right now are Giro HV mid-range MTB shoe. They probably are relatively stiff through the center of the sole, but I can feel them flex when walking.

One strange thing about shoes is that they can irritate the front of your foot by being too high or pinching at the ankle. There are two nerve bundles that go into the foot, and one of the easiest places to pinch them is at the ankle. I had some shoes that seem to give problems there.

The person that resurrected this thread mentioned his wife had problems after wearing high heels. I assume these caused her feet to swell. Hard to see another mechanism.

I also use prescription orthotics with a metatarsal bump. The bump spreads the toes so the nerves going to the toes don't get pinched. I don't get numb toes any more, but I don't think people describe numb toes as hotfoot. You can get add-on metatarsal pads or insoles with them built in.

I tend to pedal toes-down when I'm tired. My seat is probably a bit too high, but no more than 4mm. Pedaling toes down has the effect of moving it down quite a bit. Not sure it's worth messing with, I just try not to smoosh my toes too much. I have a lot of bad habits after 300km, I try to keep things together the best I can and practice good form while training.
I am told that hot foot in the women's shoe world is a common problem because the metatarsals are scrunched together in a narrow space, thus pinching the nerves and causing numbness and/or pain. In the supermarkets in Australia, metatarsal buttons are now available, although they aren't identified as such.
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Old 06-18-17, 06:44 PM   #39
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My opinion, and that's all it is, is that hotfoot is metatarsalgia. Moving cleats back helps because that reduces pressure on the metatarsals. IME hotfoot has nothing to do with cleat size or shoe stiffness. I've seen LD riders with it who had all the "right" equipment. That said, some shoes and insoles make the metatarsals more comfortable than other shoes and insoles do.

Especially on long rides, I make a point of trying to pedal with my heel cups, not my forefoot, and relaxing my ankles. My wife needs her cleats moved all the way back and her shoes fairly loose or she gets foot cramps, though not hotfoot. Everyone's different. I think it's possible that many bike shoes simply have too narrow a toe box, though that does make a more stylish shoe.

Don't set your saddle height by some formula and then use a pedal stroke which works with that height. Rather develop a pedal stroke which is easy on your feet and calves and set your saddle height for that stroke, by feel. Within 4mm of heel-on-pedal, knee locked, usually works.
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Old 06-19-17, 03:23 PM   #40
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having had both, I think there is a difference, but I am not positive. Worst case of hotfoot I ever had was because it was wet and I was wearing some toe covers that were a little tight just behind the ball of my foot. 200 excruciating miles and then I took them off and had instant relief. Pretty sure they were pinching one or both of the nerve bundles that go to the front of the foot.

OTOH, I'm much less likely to have a problem if I'm using my orthotics with the metatarsal spreader.
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