freediver

I've got a bunch of 80 mile rides under my belt and plan to go for 100 when I find an safe way to add that last 20 onto my favorite long-distance route. I seemed to have figured out the nutrition thing so that I feel like I still have more than enough energy to keep riding after 80 miles. I also have some B-17's on my bikes that are so comfortable that I no longer wear padded shorts and don't have any pain issues during, or after, my rides.

My problem is my neck. I've raised the bars on my cross bike as high as they will go- which is still a little bit below saddle height. I ride with my elbows bent, try to move my hands around on the bars, don't ride with a death grip, stretch my neck out when I ride, and even take my helmet off completely on car-free sections to relieve pressure. I still have issues with neck pain and am running out of ideas. I find that my cross bike is much more comfortable than my last road bike (cannondale R1000) due to it's more upright nature. I had the last bike fitted at a local shop and while they did put me in a classic racer position, I didn't find it anywhere near as comfortable as my current bike.

So, what's a rider to do? Do I just keep raising my bars, buying longer stems, and stacking spacers on my steering tube until I'm completely upright? Or, should I just put more miles in on my bike and hope for the best? I've read in some of the threads on here that there are neck exercises that bikers can do to help out with this, but I have yet to find any specific recommendations, or directions, on what these are- or how to perform them?

I did injure my neck about 4 years ago playing underwater hockey and have been to the doctor and chiropractor about it. The Doctor told me to find a new sport- which I did- and the chiropractor worked on me once or twice a week over a 2 month period. Things seem to be better, but long bike rides make me think about going back for some more adjustments.

Looking for any ideas that I haven't tried already.

Jon

ne_dan

I used to have this same problem at 12 and 24 hour solo mtb race. I tried playing around with fit and what not but the one thing that fixed the problem was switching to a light helmet. I ended up with a Giro Pro-Light, yeah it's expensive, but theres no plastic in the adjustment band to dig into your head and it weighs next to nothing.

electrik

I'm guessing the reach is ok - your shoulders aren't slumped or upper-back curled inwards. Try looking up with your eyes instead of looking straight and bending the neck up. Take more breaks and posture checks.

Rowan

Do you wear glasses? Do you have a peakvisor on your helmet? Sometimes the need to tilt the head back further to see under rims or the visor can be a cause of neck pain.

You also don't indicate what sort of pain and where. Is it around the vertebrae or the musclar part of the nape?

Have you been back to your chiro? That might be a good reference point, especially if you can replicate the position your neck and head is in on the bike.

Otherwise, Shermer's neck is a relatively common complaint among long-distance cyclists, although it manifests itself more in the 600+ randonnees.

Here's a reference for you:

www.ultracycling.com/training/neck_pain.html

that Machka has just given me. It's entitled: "A Pain in the Neck".

slide23

I used to get debilitating neck pain on long rides. I was out of commission for at least a day after a 200K. What helped me was isometric neck exercises. It is an easy exercise: hold your head in place with your hands and gently push to two against each other for five seconds. Do front, back, and sides.

seenloitering

Stretch a bungee cord between your helmet and the rear of your belt or seat. Gaff tape a padded bar across your biceps to rest your chin on. Get a whiplash neck brace. Attach wings with a lot of lift to the side of your helmet. Tie a helium filled balloon to the top of your helmet. Glue an angled mirror to your stomach or fashion some kind of para-scope, and just let your head hang. Denial. Learn to like pain. LSD. Have your eyes surgically replanted on the top of your head, or your spine reattached to the back of your skull rather than the bottom. Only ride in dimensions without gravity. Become a god and will the phenomenon of neck pain out of existence.

I would go for the handlebar raise. A lot of randonneurs ride with their bars at about the same height as their seat. It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

freediver

Seenloitering, I think everything you mentioned was in that article that Rowan posted! lol

I did manage to get in to see the chiro today- and will be back in there again on Thursday. He mentioned the isometric exercise and mentioned that I might try some light weightlifting as well. He made sure to emphasize "light" and not to try and emulate the body builders at the gym try to do head raises with 45 pounds strapped the their skull. He also mentioned that I could try and do some more upper back stuff Lat raises, lat pull downs, upper arm rows) to try and stabilize my upper back- lower back is rock solid.

Next step will be to raise the bars up a bit more. I've had previous bikes fitted before and might try it again. I just don't want the fitter to try and force me into some aero race position that I'll never ride in- which is what happened last time I did it. My cross bike is much more comfortable than any of my previous road bikes and that must be due to the more upright nature of the ride. Is there such thing as a randoneering fit?

Jon

Rowan

Explore the ultracycling site and do a search on these forums for randonneering fit.

A lot is to do with personal dimensions and experimentation. Without speaking for everyone else, I know that even setting up a new bike can take quite a lot of time and riding, with microadjustments of literally millimetres meaning the difference between achilles tendonitis and knee pain, for example.

I think the trend in "randonneering fit" is for the handlebars to be at least level with the seat, the seat in a neutral position (that is, knee-over-pedal-spindle is vertical), and that the top tube length/stem length combination is such that you're neither stretched out, nor hunched. There should be very little pressure on your hands as they address the handlebars.

If your cross bike feels at least near comfortable as you mention, you have a platform on which you can make micro-adjustment as you ride and gain more experience.

The process of adjustment is dynamic -- what you find now is comfortable, may not be two years from now.

For example, I have shortened my stem length slightly but retained the TT length on my newest bike compared with old faithful. I've also shortened my crank length, but that in turn has meant changes to seat height, which in turn has been a quest in itself to eliminate aforementioned achilles and knee issues. To compensate for the extra height of the seat, the stem angle needed to be slightly more elevated.

Even changing saddles can cause issues. As another example, Brooks saddles sag very slightly as they break in, and that may mean a need to change seat post height as you go (lowering the seat post by a millimetre or two at the start, increasing it as the break-in occurs).

The padding in normal saddles also wears out and sags -- a fellow rider had all sorts of issues with knee pain because her saddle was worn out, and a new saddle solved her issues.

As I mention in another thread on LD, approach professional bike fitting with some degree of cynicism when it comes to LD riding. As you have already found, they generally don't have a clue about the needs of long-distance cycling. The on-line fit guides also can be very deceptive -- I once tried a "french fit" calculated on a web fit site, that put my saddle way too high, and my achilles were cooked after a big ride about five years ago.

The lesson? Make your changes in millimetres or degrees.

freediver

I've been to the chiropractor a few times since I first posted this question. He's working on moving things back to where they go and gave me some exercise to do to help with the neck. Mainly he told me to do some upper back weight lifting to help support my neck. I might have a bit of a muscle imbalance from too much swimming (front crawl) and was advised to lift to counter act that and help support the neck.

I have also gone back to my bike shop to see about getting fitted. The shop guys determined that the saddle height looked good, my knee was in proper position in relation to the spindle and they raised my bars up as far as they could- with a 40 degree riser stem. They said that they brought everything up, and back,as far as they could without going to some too stupid looking- post extenders or a new fork with super long steerer tube. I'm going to give it a shot- it feels better than it did before- but it's going to be hard to get some super long rides in with the snow coming in. I ride all winter and will get some riding in- just not the really long ones.

They also told me that if this still doesn't work out I should put the bike on CL and start over. My next question is what road bikes come stock with handlebars level - or slightly above- seat height? the only ones I've found so far are the LHT and the Salsa Fargo.

Thanks,
Jon

Addison

I think I'm a lot older then you so take this for what its worth.........

I started having neck issues around the age of 40,couldn't figure out why my left arm would go numb when paddling out on my surfboard. Moved to Vermont and stayed active but had real shoulder/neck stuff going on. Anyway, it was the beginning of a degenerative disc condition that has now (age 58) reached the lower back. Yes, I still ride, in fact it is one of the only things left that I do at a moderatly high level, a few centuries a year and 100-125 miles a week. Nothing great but I'm having fun. I am really stiff, but the pain that I endured when it started is largely gone, Drs. say I am "autofusing".
I ride a Trek Madone 4. something. It replaced my mid eighties version, has a much shorter top tube and I had the lbs install enough risers to get the bars just slightly higher then the seat. It slows you down as there is wind resistance but so? I can now at least look up and not run down joggers coming towards me as I used to keep my head down all the time And I'm back to riding distances.
My advice is to see a Doctor other then a Chiro to get a good diagnosis and find out whats going on. Then go back to the chiro if you want, or a naturopath that would give advice on stretches and living with your condition, if you have one.

best of luck

bobbycorno

Looks like you're getting good advice, but I have to ask: underwater hockey???

SP
Bend, OR

thebulls

One thing I don't think has been mentioned so far: Recumbent. I don't ride one, but I'm open to the possibility if I ever develop "issues" for which I really need to ride a recumbent.

rogerstg

If you're not already doing this - ice the pain area. Proactively ice it a few times a day to start and ice it after every long ride thereafter. It just reduces the inflammation that's causing the problems.

IbisTouche

I think this thread is interesting: I had a whiplash in may 2010 and had since been doing two 200 km brevets with my stoker. The training mentioned here might be af significant help to me.