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  1. #1
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    2012 Shimano Tiagra 12-30 ten speed cassette

    Shimano has gone ten speed on the 2012 Tiagra.

    I noticed this 12-30 ten speed cassette on the Harris website: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html#10

    http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs...&bmUID=iDDUroI
    Last edited by Barrettscv; 08-17-11 at 11:44 AM.

  2. #2
    Randomhead
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    you can use a 34 on Ultegra. The only trick is to get a cassette. SRAM works. You have to screw the limit screw back a little

  3. #3
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    you can use a 34 on Ultegra. The only trick is to get a cassette. SRAM works. You have to screw the limit screw back a little
    I've used a 11-32 on an Ultegra GS. I'm not sure that a 34 would work an many road bikes, the length of the hanger is part of the issue. A 30 will work with all road derailleurs and frames without concern.

    I also like the spacing of the 12-30. The Apex 11-32 has a wider range, but you lose the 14T cog. The jumps in cadence can get noticed with the Apex 11-32, especially on flat routes with some wind to push against. a MTB cassette, like a 11-34, has even larger jumps between the gears.

    I'm running a 50, 39 & 26 triple with a 12-27t cassette on my CX/commuter bike/do-it-all bike. The 12-30t cassette & 50, 39 & 26 triple should give me a huge range without the need for a MTB rear derailleur. I'm replacing a worn chain & cassette soon, timing could not be better.
    Last edited by Barrettscv; 08-17-11 at 08:36 AM.

  4. #4
    2nd Amendment Cyclist RichardGlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    I also like the spacing of the 12-30. The Apex 11-32 has a wider range, but you lose the 14T cog. The jumps in cadence can get noticed with the Apex 11-32, especially on flat routes with some wind to push against. a MTB cassette, like a 11-34, has even larger jumps between the gears.
    You could always use SRAM's 12-32, which is 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 32. IMO, if you don't need the 11T, the 12-32 has really nice spacing.
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    Randomhead
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    I probably should have said I'm running the current long cage Ultegra RD with a 32 and the person that told me it would work is running a 34. I have a 34/50 on the front. Many miles on this combo.

  6. #6
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardGlover View Post
    You could always use SRAM's 12-32, which is 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 32. IMO, if you don't need the 11T, the 12-32 has really nice spacing.
    It's interesting, they keep the 16t cog and omit the 28t that would usually be found between 24 & 32. My dream cassette would also include the 16t and would include: 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 29.

    With 32t cog you start to exceed the practical chain-wrap capacity of a "GS" long cage road RD if your running a road triple like a 52, 39 & 30t or a 50, 39 & 26 like I use.
    Last edited by Barrettscv; 08-20-11 at 02:37 PM.

  7. #7
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Several of Specialized's 2012 bikes will be equipped with the new 12-30 10-speed cassette, and today I got to build the first of these that just came into our shop. The cassette shifted nicely and the Tiagra rear derailleur only had it's b-screw turned in about 1/4 or 1/3 of the way and easily cleared the 30-tooth cog - you could run a 32-tooth cog without any trouble, maybe even bigger.

    As mentioned above, the spacing on the 12-30 is very appealing; it is identical to Shimano's 12-27 10-speed cassettes except that the 16 tooth cog has been omitted and replaced with the 30.

    The bike I built was the new 2012 Specialized TriCross Expert, which is an awesome bike. It has front and rear disc brakes (Avid BB5's), mounting points for front and rear mudguards and racks (although the disc brakes might get in the way a bit for many rack models because they did not put the rear disc on the chainstay). Triple road crank (30-39-50) with 12-30 cassette (all Tiagra). It's a dark grey/silver finish with small yellow paint highlights, and lots of gold bling to finish it off (stem faceplate, stem cap, water bottle bolts, seat clamp, etc.) It's a very different style to what most other major bike manufacturers are making - I hope we sell lots of them.

    Regarding the SRAM 12-32 cassette, I was reading about this somewhere else recently. Although SRAM's official website claims that the biggest two cogs are 24-32, other people have reported when looking at an actual example that this is not the case, and the spacing is much more sensible.

  8. #8
    #5639 robertkat's Avatar
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    Sounds all fine and dandy, but how much does it weigh?

  9. #9
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertkat View Post
    Sounds all fine and dandy, but how much does it weigh?
    I should have mine next week. I'll put it on a postal scale.

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    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    http://road.cc/content/news/31511-sh...ra-colour-2012

    Apparently the wider cassette is to compete against Apex.

    And as per usual, a lot of the 2012 Tiagra is previous 105 tech.

  11. #11
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    I charted a Shimano Triple with the 12-30 ten speed cassette v. the Sram Apex compact double with the 11-32 cassette. Not only is the gap between the 13 and 15t avoided, but the 39t chainring provides an ideal range for flatter routes;


  12. #12
    Senior Member Werkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    ...A 30 will work with all road derailleurs and frames without concern...
    This intrigues me. Are you speculating a SRAM short cage could be used, or just referring to Shimano dérailleurs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    ...My dream cassette would also include the 16t and would include: 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 29...
    We share the same dream.

  13. #13
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werkin View Post
    This intrigues me. Are you speculating a SRAM short cage could be used, or just referring to Shimano dérailleurs?
    Using a 30t cog should not be a problem with Sram short cage rear derailleurs. The rated max cog capacity is 28, but a safety factor exists and exceeding the max capacity by two teeth should not be a problem.

    I’ve exceeded the 27t max cog nominal capacity of Shimano by 5 teeth.

    If you are using an 11-28, you can consider using the same length chain, just be sure the chain has some slack when in the big-big combination. If you are using a smaller range cassette, a new & longer chain might be needed. If the chain is towards the end of its life, this is a good time for a new chain.
    Last edited by Barrettscv; 08-20-11 at 07:25 PM.

  14. #14
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    I put together a cassette, based on some comments Barrettscv made some months ago, with a lowest cog of 30 teeth. I would seldom need that gear but I'm very glad it is there. I tried the gear out during a ride with a very steep if short hill - maybe 15 to 18%. It is good to know I can climb anything I'm likely to encounter hereabouts, even with 25 lbs. loaded on the bike.

  15. #15
    #5639 robertkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    I should have mine next week. I'll put it on a postal scale.
    I was half joking, but it would be nice to know. I'm more interested to hear how well it functions. I would be pairing this cassette with a 6700 short cage, which I understand should work fine.

  16. #16
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertkat View Post
    I was half joking, but it would be nice to know. I'm more interested to hear how well it functions. I would be pairing this cassette with a 6700 short cage, which I understand should work fine.
    Shifting performance should pretty much match most other Shimano cassettes because they use basically the same cog shaping patterns on them all. The main thing that changes between Shimano's different levels of cassettes is weight - the higher end cassettes are built using an alloy spider instead of solid steel cogs, and the top end models get some titanium cogs. Even so, a 12-30 cassette, with many 2 and 3 tooth jumps between gears, is never going to shift quite as smoothly as something like a 12-21 cassette that has 1-tooth differences all the way through, but I'm sure you won't find another cassette with such a large range that shifts any better.

    When setting up the new bike with the Tiagra 12-30 cassette I barely had to do any adjustment to it to make it work well on the stand, and then on the brief test ride it performed flawlessly. Obviously, this was not a particularly long-term or rigorous test, but my first impressions were very positive.

    It certainly would be nice if Shimano were to launch a similar 105-level cassette that had an alloy spider to reduce the weight considerably. I've heard rumors that Shimano will be releasing an extra version of the 105 rear derailleur that can officially handle a 30-tooth cog (although, unofficially, most already can), so I'm hoping that they'll release a corresponding 105-level cassette. I'm going to try to find someone at Eurobike next week who can tell me exactly what the plan is.

  17. #17
    Senior Member kevrider's Avatar
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    wow, that's great. the triple on my old bike was 52/40/30 with a 12-26. now i have a 50/34 with 12-25. using this cassette would give me a lower granny than i had on the triple. i was wondering how i would do in the mountains, there were some grinds where i could barely make it with the triple. but with this cassette on the lighter bike it would be lovely. just not sure that my RD can cope. Ultegra RD6600, what do you guys think? five more teeth might be too many.
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  18. #18
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevrider View Post
    wow, that's great. the triple on my old bike was 52/40/30 with a 12-26. now i have a 50/34 with 12-25. using this cassette would give me a lower granny than i had on the triple. i was wondering how i would do in the mountains, there were some grinds where i could barely make it with the triple. but with this cassette on the lighter bike it would be lovely. just not sure that my RD can cope. Ultegra RD6600, what do you guys think? five more teeth might be too many.
    Install a new & longer chain and adjust the B screw and enjoy.
    Last edited by Barrettscv; 08-21-11 at 04:19 PM.

  19. #19
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertkat View Post
    Sounds all fine and dandy, but how much does it weigh?
    At 340 grams, it's no lightweight. It's heavier than a Sram 11-32 PG-1050 by 40 grams, and heavier than an Ultegra 11-28 by 110 grams.
    Last edited by Barrettscv; 08-23-11 at 08:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
    I charted a Shimano Triple with the 12-30 ten speed cassette v. the Sram Apex compact double with the 11-32 cassette. Not only is the gap between the 13 and 15t avoided, but the 39t chainring provides an ideal range for flatter routes;
    That's exactly why I prefer triples over compact doubles. 34 ring is too low to stay in all the time, 50 is too high, and both require more cross-chaining than a 39. At least at the speeds and terrains I ride.

    I think I could probably live with just a single 39 ring if I had 11-32 or -34 in the rear, because I'm in the 39 95% of the time with a 12-27.

  21. #21
    Gear Combo Guru Chris_W's Avatar
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    I just picked up the 2012 Shimano dealer catalogue at Eurobike and got some more details on the specs of this cassette.

    First, official Shimano weight for the Tiagra 12-30 cassette is 329 grams. For comparison, an Ultegra 11-28 cassette is officially 242 grams, making the weight cost of the 30 tooth cassette be about 87 grams (not 110 grams as stated above). Unfortunately, there is no lighter-weight 105-level version of this cassette listed.

    As well as the new Tiagra rear derailleur being rated as being able to handle a largest cog of 30 teeth, there is a new version of the 105 rear derailleur, which is designated as RD-5700-A, which can also officially handle the 30-tooth cog (the previous version of the 105 derailleur is the RD-5700, which could only officially handle a 28-tooth cog). Of course, these limits are normally conservative, so it is very likely that the new Tiagra and 105 rear derailleurs will also work fine with a 32-tooth large cog, so there is no need to use a "9-speed" MTB rear derailleur anymore.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Ranger63's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if Shimano is going to do a trickle up effect and offer the larger cogged cassettes in a lighter 105 (or ultegra)version.
    I had the chance to compare the tiagra 10 cassette against my 11-28 and the weight penalty seems substantial
    (I should mention I the difference in weight felt was via holding each cassette not factually weighing one against the other)
    I run the 50/34 thru an 11-28 on the rear of my Motobecane IF. I'd love to swap out the darn 11t and substitute a 30t at the other end but the LBS said the tiagra 30t won't work on the ultegra 6700 series cassette (something to do with the offset {??)on the cog itsself.
    They wern't exactly sure the 6700 series SS would handle the 30t even tweaked. (anyone have first hand knowledge on this?)
    I also saw a good many of the new CF models comming with a long cage 105 derailleur to handle the 30 or 32
    cog setup (see em both on compact double setups and triple setups)
    LBS checked with Shimano and the long cage 105 wasn't available..
    Anyone know about these?

  23. #23
    Randomhead
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    I really don't think your LBS knows what they are talking about. Shimano puts out a lot of what I consider bad information so they don't have to support weird combinations, but they probably know that those combinations work. I would still recommend going with a long cage Shimano road derailleur and a SRAM cassette so you can get 32 or 34.

  24. #24
    Loving LD kk27's Avatar
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    Personally I like the 12-25 cassette the best cause there's less jumps in cadence that's why my Road bike/ trainer wheel has them. I don't like the 11-28 I use on my LD bike. I feel the wider range cassettes like 11-34s and the likes are not very well spaced, most people buying these are looking for a lower gearing (for climbs) but these cassettes only give a few lower gears and that too very widely spaced that they actually prove to be inefficient when climbing you're either a touch or two above the gear/cadence you want or below due to the wide spacing.

    Ideally lower gearing (touring) cassettes should have closer spacing at the back and wider spacing front or 2teeth spacing; like so:- 14(or13)-15-17-19-21-23-26-28-32-34.
    The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education

  25. #25
    Senior Member Ranger63's Avatar
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    The thread seems to jump allover on this one but I've seen the 12-30 tiagra coupled with the 105 long cage on several lower priced Trek Madones (both compact double and triple setups)recently.
    I switched to the 6700 and the 11-28 today.(bike came with the 6600 series derailleurs,brifters and 11-25 cassette)
    I run a FSA Team Issue 50/34 crankset.
    Had I my druthers I'd prefer a close geared 8speed with two larger bailouts to complete the 10spd setup.
    (ie 11 12 13 14 16 18 20 22 26 30)
    Sence the 11-26 was a cobbled 12-26 to begin with I'm figuring it's only a matter of time before specialty Shimano cassettes are available or folks are ordering the parts and building them themselves.

    My interest in this post is in the comments on the 6700 rear being able to be tweaked 9and stay in tune) to accept the 30t cog.
    Hopefully, the tiagra/105 setups will do a trickle up effect and become available in the lighter 105/6700 cassetes (because I did get to compare a 12-28 tiagra and a 11-28 ultegra and the weight penalty is noticible.)

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