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  1. #101
    Senior Member joewein's Avatar
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    For moderate headwind, my recommendation would be not to watch your speed readout, but your heart rate or your power meter readout. Riding against the wind is a bit like riding uphill, except you have less to show for the effort. Your effort needs to remain in a sustainable range or you won't finish the ride.

    You simply can't win against a 32 km/h wind, unless it's very temporary (exposed mountain pass). That's too fierce. Just maintaining 10 km/h ground speed into it means fighting as much air resistance as going at 42 km/h (26 mph). If it was me, I'd either go ride somewhere else or ride on a different day.

  2. #102
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    I did my first century last week, self supported, on a Trice (ICE) recumbent trike. It took me 8:15 hours, 85 to 93 degree heat (103 'RealFeel') of which 7 hours was riding time.
    I stopped for a light roadside veg stew and rice lunch about 30 miles into the ride, as I only left at 9:30.

    I carried 2.5 liters of water, 2 dosed with Nunn electrolyte, 2 boiled eggs and 2 bananas. Trike was kitted with rack, rear mudguard, 55 liter saddlebags, lights and a full set of spares and tools, as road conditions here can be a bit rough.

    I popped a liter of water by the time I left, standard practice for me when riding in the heat.

    I've been off the bike for over 2 years until June, as I've been moving around a lot with stuff in storage or in transit, and have never gone further than 50 miles in my life before, so I started out just doing local rides. For the last few months I've been doing a hilly ride of 30 to 45 miles every few weeks, and about a quarter of the distance being steady to steep climbing.
    in between I started with 60 km longer rides (got badly affected in the heat at first) and then built up to 80 and 100k, and finally 150km distances.

    Especially in the heat, I found learning how my body needed hydration and food was really important. Probably the biggest lesson was hydrating as much as possible before I leave on a ride, and then keeping up with it during the ride. The other one was not to push too hard in the beginning or on hills.

    In the end, the century was easier than the first 100k ride I did a month earlier, and I did it in less time than the 150km ride 10 days before, despite the route being the same apart from a long, steep climb at the turn around point.
    The other really weird part of that faster time was that I bent the derailleur hanger 3 km into the ride hitting a hidden rock while doing a water crossing. I lost the 2 smallest cassette cogs, ending up with the lower 21 speeds out of the 27 original.
    That must have dropped me from a 107 gi on top to below 90 (20" wheel).
    After I got the derailleur to at least stop jumping cogs and shift OK in the remaining gears, I decided to carry on and just take it easy, and see how far I got.
    It seems that was the best strategy, as I stopped for photos, food, snacks and drink stops, and even ate a 'banana Q' (cooking banana fried and dipped in melted sugar).
    Unlike the other 100k and longer rides, I was faster on the way home than going out...

    Unlike others, I much prefer riding on my own, looking at the sights, talking to people at stops, stopping for food, drinks and photos when I feel like it, and not being stressed to keep up when I'm slow or holding back when I'm fast. Especially as a recumbent trike (tadpole) has very different speeds on climbs and descents than a normal road bike. With all the tools, spares, bags, rack, lights and stuff I ride with here, the trike is over 45lb before I add water and food.
    Last edited by tshelver; 11-07-13 at 03:11 AM.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Null66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    last summer I rode in North Carolina and at the hottest part of the day I was having to stop every 15 miles for water. Under those conditions I felt like an idiot for not having a hydration pack. I rode with one on my recent 600k attempts, and it's definitely something that takes some getting used to. My second try was more successful than the first. Under very hot conditions, load the pack up with ice and when done drinking, blow the water in the tube back into the pack or you will always be drinking hot water. If it's not too hot, I can make it almost 100 miles on 2 liters
    Haven't ridden a brevet yet, but really like long for me self supported rides.

    If you have spare water, squirt through helmet vents...
    With my camelback I'll drain some water on my bike shorts mid thigh.
    Amazing how cooling this is on a hot day.
    I use Keen sandals so I don't worry about water getting in my shoes, but if I wore shoes, then I would.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Jim Kukula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joewein View Post
    You simply can't win against a 32 km/h wind, unless it's very temporary (exposed mountain pass). That's too fierce. Just maintaining 10 km/h ground speed into it means fighting as much air resistance as going at 42 km/h (26 mph).
    That doesn't sound quite right. I think power goes like s * (s + h)^2, where s is speed and h is headwind. So riding 10 kph into a 32 kph headwind is like riding 26 kph in still air.

    Yeah, you're right about the force you're pushing against. But assuming one has gears on the bike, one can shift to a lower gear to make the torque the same. With adequate gearing, power is really all that matters.

  5. #105
    Senior Member joewein's Avatar
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    Jim,

    you're absolute correct as power = work / time and work = force * distance. Force increases with the square of total air speed (ground speed plus headwind speed if you're heading directly into the wind). Therefore the equivalent still air speed in my example is the 3rd root of ((42 kph)^2 * 10 kph) which is ~26 kph, as you say.

    I stand corrected and educated!

  6. #106
    Senior Member Jim Kukula's Avatar
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    A 20 mph headwind really is brutal! Another way of looking at the numbers: my usual level speed in still air is around 12 mph. Into a 20 mph headwind, the same power output would have me going about 3.2 mph! I have plenty low gears but that is actually running off my low end. My lowest gear at my steady cadence is about 4.7 mph. At 3.2 mph my legs are slowing down quite a bit - not quite at the death struggle stage but getting there!

  7. #107
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    Definitely in the FWIW category.

    Back in the late 70's I ran my first marathon and (surprisingly) qualified for the Boston Marathon. A group of four of us decided to make the trip the next spring. This was the year that Rosie Ruiz "won" the ladies race (she didn't pass me, BTW).

    Anyway I could never learn to drink water while running (not a problem on a bike for me, BTW). A buddy (better than me) talked me into running with him and, unfortunately it was 'perfect' weather (low 80's). Of course all my training was cold weather stuff and I had no heat training whatsoever in April.

    I absolutely collapsed the last 5 miles and assumed that it was just a somewhat too fast pace. While I finished with a sub 7:00 min/mile pace, my pace the last half dozen miles was more like 9:00.

    Then I returned the next fall to the Nov. marathon in Louisville, Ky. Again it was the same 'perfect' weather and now I was in very good condition. But the result was the same - complete collapse the last 5'ish miles. But this time for no particular reason I had weighed myself before the race. I could easily reconstruct all the fluids that I had consumed after the race (I just couldn't drink when running). Doing the math I calculated that I had lost 13 pounds of water during this race.

    Trust me here - you don't want to do this. Twice I lost around 13 pounds in 3 hours and was never uncomfortably hot. But around 2.5 hours in - things were REALLY tough. However I never felt either hot or thirsty.

    dave

  8. #108
    Senior Member Willbird's Avatar
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    Pardon if this is an ignorant question, but how about V8 juice for electrolytes ?? The stuff is loaded with sodium and potassium.

    Bill

  9. #109
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    Pardon if this is an ignorant question, but how about V8 juice for electrolytes ?? The stuff is loaded with sodium and potassium.

    Bill
    Don't see why not, if you can stomach it while riding. Personally I think people overthink the whole electrolyte issue. There's plenty of electrolytes in ordinary food, and as an intensive care doctor once said to me, "most of my patients die with their electrolytes in perfect balance".
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Willbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
    Don't see why not, if you can stomach it while riding. Personally I think people overthink the whole electrolyte issue. There's plenty of electrolytes in ordinary food, and as an intensive care doctor once said to me, "most of my patients die with their electrolytes in perfect balance".
    I have not tried it wile riding, I drink 2 cans a day of the "low sodium", I refer to it as "lower sodium" though because it still has quite a bit, it has never caused me an issue at work in midwest heat and humidity.

    Bill

  11. #111
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willbird View Post
    I have not tried it wile riding, I drink 2 cans a day of the "low sodium", I refer to it as "lower sodium" though because it still has quite a bit, it has never caused me an issue at work in midwest heat and humidity.

    Bill
    You might go with normal sodium V8 during long rides.

  12. #112
    Senior Member Willbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    You might go with normal sodium V8 during long rides.
    I'm thinking of maybe doing a self supported metric century first, just ride loops around home base here and make my rest stops back here every hour or so, so that is something I could stash in the fridge. I got on to the "lower sodium stuff" when our health and wellness program had a "veggie challenge"......a can of V8 counted as 2 servings :-).

    The Lower sodium for an 11oz is 200mg sodium and 1180mg Potassium,15mg carb, 3g protien....not sure how rapidly/readily avail all of that is.

    The higher sodium again for 11oz is 920mg sodium and 640mg potassium, 14 carb, 2 protien.

    I have been riding about 90 minutes now and want to start to phase in something other than straight water so I know it will work out if I decide to push for my Metric :-). Base right now is 20 miles so I am going to keep working up, and finding a good local "loop" or "loops" that will work well for 1 hour rest stops.

    Bill
    Last edited by Willbird; 07-01-14 at 08:54 AM.

  13. #113
    Senior Member Jawbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chidonchea View Post
    Here is a video I made of a feed bag I use on centuries and double century rides. The bag can hold more than enough food to get me to the next rest stop. By eating all the while I ride, I can avoid the "Bonk".
    This is so freakin' awesome!
    David Hamilton
    www.HootInvest.com

  14. #114
    Senior Member woodcraft's Avatar
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    Get out of the saddle regularly, for blood circulation.

    Just 10 or 15 pedal strokes every 10 or 15 minutes helps.

  15. #115
    Newbie andy4077's Avatar
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    What a fantastic idea

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