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  1. #26
    Lurking Under a Rock
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    I recently just put campy 10 spd powershifts on my commuter with 8 spd shimano. works perfectly with no mods, and gearing is fine with a triple on the front. I want to do it to my rando bike, but since I want to stay with the compact double, I would like to go up to 9 spd cassettes. Just wondering how the shiftmate is working, although I understand it isn't the same as what I would be using? And I'm curious about the left ergo shifting performance - powershift or ultrashift?

  2. #27
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
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    Mmm... that bike is all kinds of hot.
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
    RUSA #7498

  3. #28
    Senior Member Chris Pringle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronocnikral View Post
    I recently just put campy 10 spd powershifts on my commuter with 8 spd shimano. works perfectly with no mods, and gearing is fine with a triple on the front. I want to do it to my rando bike, but since I want to stay with the compact double, I would like to go up to 9 spd cassettes. Just wondering how the shiftmate is working, although I understand it isn't the same as what I would be using? And I'm curious about the left ergo shifting performance - powershift or ultrashift?
    Excellent question! The front shifter with XT triple crankset works really well. The Shiftmate paired with the Shimano XT 9 Spd. rear derailleur unfortunately didn't work for us. It was finicky as hell. It was apparent on steep climbs (San Diego has lots of them!) A mechanic there told us the Shiftmate is supposed to work better with a Sram 9 spd. derailleur -- something to do about "1:1 actuation ratio" present on Sram and Campy shifters. I take blame for not researching this further (I ordered all the components.) The guys at R+E Cycles suggested to replace it with a special X9 Sram derailleur modified by DaVinci. We did exactly that. It shifts like butter now. Live and learn!

    Last edited by Chris Pringle; 04-12-13 at 03:29 PM.

  4. #29
    Senior Member Chris Pringle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    Mmm... that bike is all kinds of hot.
    Thank you (and everyone else!) for the compliments. You can't imagine how stoked he is with this bike. It really exceeds all his expectations!

  5. #30
    Lurking Under a Rock
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Pringle View Post
    Excellent question! The front shifter with XT triple crankset works really well. The Shiftmate paired with the Shimano XT 9 Spd. rear derailleur unfortunately didn't work for us. It was finicky as hell. It was apparent on steep climbs (San Diego has lots of them!) A mechanic there told us the Shiftmate is supposed to work better with a Sram 9 spd. derailleur -- something to do about "1:1 actuation ratio" present on Sram and Campy shifters. I take blame for not researching this further (I ordered all the components.) The guys at R+E Cycles suggested to replace it with a special X9 Sram derailleur modified by DaVinci. We did exactly that. It shifts like butter now. Live and learn!

    Thanks for the response. I'm thinking about just trying out the 11 spd ergos with 9 spd cassette. I have a DaVinci tandem on order w/ record ergos and the same sram derailleur. Excited to see how all 40 gears work!

    Thanks for sharing your experience.

  6. #31
    Senior Member Chris Pringle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronocnikral View Post
    Thanks for the response. I'm thinking about just trying out the 11 spd ergos with 9 spd cassette. I have a DaVinci tandem on order w/ record ergos and the same sram derailleur. Excited to see how all 40 gears work!

    Thanks for sharing your experience.
    I believe the right combo is supposed to be 10 spd campy shifters with 9 spd der./cassette. I'm intrigued if you make it work with 11 spd shifters. So, please keep me posted (PM me.)

  7. #32
    weirdo
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    Wow, you guys really blinged it out- sweet build!
    I`m curious about the duty you have in mind. You mentioned CC touring and also something about "somewhat competetive" rides, yet it looks kind of laden down as pictured (not that it`s a BAD thing). Do you plan to strip it for those lighter duties and roll as it is above for the heavier stuff? Also, what do you have for wheels? Looks like Aeroheat rims, but I`ve never seen them polished like that, and no guess as to the hubs.

    EDIT: It was really cool of R&E to send you progress pics.
    Warning: I`ve got a 24t granny ring and I ain`t afraid to use it!

  8. #33
    Senior Member lonesomesteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Pringle View Post
    I believe the right combo is supposed to be 10 spd campy shifters with 9 spd der./cassette. I'm intrigued if you make it work with 11 spd shifters. So, please keep me posted (PM me.)
    10 spd Ergo shifters work with 8 speed Shimano RD/cassettes. There are other combinations that work as well. There's a great article about it here that has charts with all the "mixed marriage" combinations that work.

    I have two bikes running 10 speed Ergo shifters with 8 speed Shimano RD/Cassette and I've been very happy with the setup.
    "You can buy status, but sucking is immutable. After a certain point, upgrading only makes you suck more ostentatiously."
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    My Randonneuring Blog

  9. #34
    Senior Member Chris Pringle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodar y rodar View Post
    Wow, you guys really blinged it out- sweet build!
    I`m curious about the duty you have in mind. You mentioned CC touring and also something about "somewhat competetive" rides, yet it looks kind of laden down as pictured (not that it`s a BAD thing). Do you plan to strip it for those lighter duties and roll as it is above for the heavier stuff? Also, what do you have for wheels? Looks like Aeroheat rims, but I`ve never seen them polished like that, and no guess as to the hubs.

    EDIT: It was really cool of R&E to send you progress pics.
    R+E was great with progress emails, photos and consulting with us on any questions.

    This build has the following duties in mind:

    1. Randonneuring (mainly)
    2. Credit card touring (a distant second given that it's only once or twice a year that we do this.)

    Having said that, let me clarify that this bike was not built for "racing." That was not the intention at all for this build. When we ride with our friends we are hardly competing. We ride for fun putting somewhere between 4-8 hours on weekend rides, but there are occasions during those rides when we start racing each other for short sections -- all in the spirit of fun though. The type of events that we have seen an increase in locally also go very much with the spirit of randonneuring (although not sanctioned by the ACP): non-competitive rides where one still pushes to finish within a certain time limit whether imposed by the organizer or set by the participant.

    The big wins for this custom build come in the forms of geometry and weight savings compared to his old ride. Additionally, this new build comes complete with accessories for comfort and safety for long distance:

    - Fenders - Even though it doesn't rain much in this part of the world, it protects the frame, drivetrain and paint job from a lot of grease and crud on the road. Aesthetically, he also wanted a classic look.
    - Lights: We ride with daytime lights for safety reasons. It's easy not to see a cyclist on busy roads. I chose powerful battery lights that last up to 5.5 hours with one 18650 battery (a spare battery goes in the bag.)
    - Mini front rack and front bag: Just big enough to carry essentials such as spares, snacks and a windbreaker when it's cold in the morning but warmer later in the day. The mid-trail front-end geometry keeps it fun and agile even with some weight up front.

    The rims are indeed Velocity Aeroheat. They come in silver on the 26" version. I bet they also come in silver on the 700c.

    Here is a pic of the front hub:
    Last edited by Chris Pringle; 04-14-13 at 07:15 AM.

  10. #35
    weirdo
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    Thanks for sharing that bike and build, CP. I don`t know if i`d trust myself with such a pretty creature, but I sure enjoy looking!

    A bit disappointed not to get any dual moding ideas, though. Among my current bikes, the one that feels best for long rides (honestly, it feels best for damn near everything I do) is an old non-suspension mountain bike that I threw drop bars on. That same bike also gets used every day all year for commuting, and in the summer is handles most of my weekend tours and day rides. In "svelte mode", it feels a lot lighter and more nimble than when it`s tied down with racks, lights, dyno hub, wide fenders, and bomb proof tires. But whatever of that extra crap I take off for a light trip I have to put back on afterwards. I`m trying to put together a lighter, stripped version of the same bike so I don`t have to do the transformer routine so often, but haven`t yet met another bike that feels as good. One of these days...
    Warning: I`ve got a 24t granny ring and I ain`t afraid to use it!

  11. #36
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    I used to have a Cannondale Bad Boy, which was a flat bar commuter bike. It had disc brakes and was set up to handle 700c or 26" wheels, which now would also include 650b. I changed to drop bars (and changed shifters/brake levers) and it worked beautifully. A little heavy maybe but very versatile and fun to ride.

  12. #37
    Senior Member Chris Pringle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtn.cyclist View Post
    I used to have a Cannondale Bad Boy, which was a flat bar commuter bike. It had disc brakes and was set up to handle 700c or 26" wheels, which now would also include 650b. I changed to drop bars (and changed shifters/brake levers) and it worked beautifully. A little heavy maybe but very versatile and fun to ride.
    Did you actually ride this bike with 26"? What differences in handling did you notice? Just curious.

    Many people here in the BF have reported on successful 700c to 650b conversions (or 27" to 700c.) Actually, I originally approached a couple of builders with that idea: a frameset that could work with 700c, 650b and 26". The answer was NO! They didn't really get into too much detail other than the original frame geometry and handling will be compromised. Apparently, framesets are built around a specific wheel size. I guess there must also be some kind of liability issue telling a customer that a frame they will build will work with different size wheels. At any rate, I dropped this since it wasn't a priority. If the wheel size difference is rather small (700c ---> 650b compensated with bigger tires), then I guess it should work fine. Another issue is reach of the brake pads on canti or V-brakes. You can make it work from 700c to 650b, but good luck with 26". On a bike with disc brakes, it should be easy and an interesting experiment to try at least. In the end it will still be something that no builder or manufacturer will eagerly approve.

  13. #38
    Senior Member Steamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Pringle View Post
    Did you actually ride this bike with 26"? What differences in handling did you notice? Just curious.

    Many people here in the BF have reported on successful 700c to 650b conversions (or 27" to 700c.) Actually, I originally approached a couple of builders with that idea: a frameset that could work with 700c, 650b and 26". The answer was NO! They didn't really get into too much detail other than the original frame geometry and handling will be compromised. Apparently, framesets are built around a specific wheel size. I guess there must also be some kind of liability issue telling a customer that a frame they will build will work with different size wheels. At any rate, I dropped this since it wasn't a priority. If the wheel size difference is rather small (700c ---> 650b compensated with bigger tires), then I guess it should work fine. Another issue is reach of the brake pads on canti or V-brakes. You can make it work from 700c to 650b, but good luck with 26". On a bike with disc brakes, it should be easy and an interesting experiment to try at least. In the end it will still be something that no builder or manufacturer will eagerly approve.
    I do precisely this with two of my bikes, mixing and matching 622, 559, and 507 wheels. But they are recumbents. Some of the normal rules don't really apply. The height of center of gravity changes but its not a problem in any way. I even like to use un-equal combos 622 rear / 559 front on one bike and 559R / 507F on another. And it's worth noting that they were designed with the intention of using two equal size wheels. Yeah, the steering geometry changes when I mess with that, but so what? I assert that humans are infinitely more adaptable than most hair-splitters give credit.

    Now, on a DF, to use a range of wheel sizes from 559 to 622, at some point the BB is going to be too high, or too low....even if you used disc brakes to eliminate that constraint. But I have to figure one could do a design with a 10-1/2" BB height with 584 wheels of the anticipated width (fat), and let it come down a bit with 559 and go up a bit with 622. Most people are going to use 622 wheels with narrower tires than the use with 584 or 559, so the actual outer diameters of the complete wheel don't even vary as much as the change in BSD implies.

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