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-   -   Wheels and tyres for 200km mountainous audax (http://www.bikeforums.net/long-distance-competition-ultracycling-randonneuring-endurance-cycling/843736-wheels-tyres-200km-mountainous-audax.html)

Machka 10-09-12 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevage (Post 14685171)
Yes, I'm planning on training :)

It's mid-October ... the 7 Peaks Challenge has either started or will start soon. Have you registered? Complete them all before the Alpine Classic and you'll have had some good practice for the Alpine Classic.


http://www.7peaks.com.au/

howsteepisit 10-09-12 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeyba (Post 14822777)
That's kind of a silly calculator. It says I should be running 212Psi...or riding on massive balloon tires. Don't think that's going to happen. I'll just go by what the tire manufacturer says

The calculators suggest that you not exceed the mfr recommended pressures. But there is actually some science behind the calculator its not silly. OTOH, to need that much pressure in 23mm tires you and your bike would need to be in excess of 325 pounds, if so then you should consider a wider tire.

ThermionicScott 10-09-12 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machka (Post 14822858)
It's mid-October ... the 7 Peaks Challenge has either started or will start soon. Have you registered? Complete them all before the Alpine Classic and you'll have had some good practice for the Alpine Classic.


http://www.7peaks.com.au/

As has been attributed to Eddy Merckx, "Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades." :thumb:

Homeyba 10-09-12 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howsteepisit (Post 14822918)
The calculators suggest that you not exceed the mfr recommended pressures. But there is actually some science behind the calculator its not silly. OTOH, to need that much pressure in 23mm tires you and your bike would need to be in excess of 325 pounds, if so then you should consider a wider tire.

I actually run 25's mostly , and quite successfully, that's what I entered in the calculator. I do run 23's on occasion when I'm racing (even on my tandem).

lhbernhardt 10-10-12 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howsteepisit (Post 14822608)
You need to set your tire pressure by your weight on the wheel and the tire size. Setting the same pressure for tires of different sizes will give you an invalid conclusion. There are several calculators online on pressure required to get the preferred 15% deflection for different body weights and tire size. Here is a nice one:

http://www.dorkypantsr.us/bike-tire-...alculator.html

I would also challenge the commonly-held presumption that since fore/aft weight distribution on a bike is 40/60, the tires need to be aired proportionately, with less pressure in the front. I would maintain that you need to set the tire pressure to consider worst case. You actually put more weight on the front wheel when:

- you are braking
- you are out of the saddle climbing
- you are out of the saddle sprinting and are no longer accelerating

Thus, I put the same amount of pressure in both tires. For my weight (170-175 lbs), it's usually 120 to 130 psi on 23mm Vredestein TriComps (they can handle the pressure).

Luis

zzzwillzzz 10-10-12 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 14823085)
As has been attributed to Eddy Merckx, "Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades." :thumb:

i really doubt eddy said that. back then you didn't upgrade a bike you had your columbus or reynolds frame and campy equipment, done.

hairytoes 10-11-12 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeyba (Post 14822777)
That's kind of a silly calculator. It says I should be running 212Psi...or riding on massive balloon tires. Don't think that's going to happen. I'll just go by what the tire manufacturer says

HOW heavy are you!

For a combined weight of 250lb, with 23mm tyres, the calculator says 137psi on the rear.

ThermionicScott 10-11-12 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzzwillzzz (Post 14829051)
i really doubt eddy said that. back then you didn't upgrade a bike you had your columbus or reynolds frame and campy equipment, done.

That might just be why I worded my post the way I did.

Good advice, no matter who said it.

Homeyba 10-11-12 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairytoes (Post 14829486)
HOW heavy are you!

For a combined weight of 250lb, with 23mm tyres, the calculator says 137psi on the rear.

Opps, My goof. I was using the single wheel calculator (guess that's for unicycles). Ok, not so crazy numbers but I still don't run that high of a pressure in my tires.

Machka 10-25-12 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machka (Post 14822858)
It's mid-October ... the 7 Peaks Challenge has either started or will start soon. Have you registered? Complete them all before the Alpine Classic and you'll have had some good practice for the Alpine Classic.


http://www.7peaks.com.au/

The 7 Peaks Challenge has begun ... which mountain are you planning to climb this weekend in preparation for the Alpine Classic?


If Rowan and I were in Australia, we'd do the 7 Peaks Challenge again ... I've even considered whether or not it would be possible to fit in during the months of February and March. I think it goes till the end of March.

Barrettscv 10-26-12 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHaMac (Post 14686257)
When the Vittoria Randonneur Cross tires wear out on my touring bike I'll be switching to the Vittoria Randonneur Hyper. There should be a decent weight savings of ~250g and the smoother tread on the hyper will be nice. A fellow commuter at work reliably claims to have ridden his Hypers for 4,300 miles (6935km) before have to change out the tire.

Therefore, agreeing with Commodus, if you aren't trying to push the pace and want to enjoy the ride then stay with your current bike and I'd add reduce the weight of your tires without reducing the width or size of your tires by much.

+1 on the Vittoria Rando Hyper, now called the Voyager Hyper. I've had mine for a year. These are very smooth riding and fast rolling. Tough, also. I've had no flats and I'm a city cyclist who will see plenty of broken glass. Last weekend I climbed a 15% gravel and mud farm road with these tires. Minutes later I was on pavement at 45 mph while descending downhill.

stevage 12-03-12 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machka (Post 14822858)
It's mid-October ... the 7 Peaks Challenge has either started or will start soon. Have you registered? Complete them all before the Alpine Classic and you'll have had some good practice for the Alpine Classic.
http://www.7peaks.com.au/

Cool. Personally I can't see the point of registering for something like that - seems like needless bureaucracy. My Strava account is all the proof I need :)

I'll definitely be doing Lake Mountain and Donna Buang (not counted). Hopefully Baw Baw (if I can convince others). I actually don't want to ride either Falls or Buffalo before the event - I'd like the motivation of exploring them for the first time. Hotham and Dinner Plain...probably too far. (I'd rather spend those hours riding, than driving). I guess Buller is a possibility.

Rowan 12-04-12 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevage (Post 15012277)
Cool. Personally I can't see the point of registering for something like that - seems like needless bureaucracy. My Strava account is all the proof I need :)

I'll definitely be doing Lake Mountain and Donna Buang (not counted). Hopefully Baw Baw (if I can convince others). I actually don't want to ride either Falls or Buffalo before the event - I'd like the motivation of exploring them for the first time. Hotham and Dinner Plain...probably too far. (I'd rather spend those hours riding, than driving). I guess Buller is a possibility.

Oh I don't know. The possibility of winning an all-expenses paid trip to the Tour de France was a great incentive last year. I didn't win it, but did win a consolation prize, a $200 gift voucher for Columbia outdoor apparel, and a long weekend this February on Mt Hotham at one of the resorts.

We also finished all the climbs, which put us in a fairly elite group.

Strava means nothing to us. After all, Strava is just an electronic form of bureaucracy that many cyclists seem to have enslaved themselves to.

stevage 12-06-12 06:09 AM

Heh. Well, it's a pretty good bureaucrat at that - nice to look back at all the rides I've done, see the total k's per month etc.

Anyway, we're looking at doing Mt Baw Baw this weekend. I like the idea of riding from the train line (Trafalgar's the closest), but it's possibly a bit much:

http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=jfalejszaxsvsnnv

(Amusingly, extremely close to an imperial century.) Over 3600m vertical climbing - almost as much as the classic!

Anyway, to get vaguely back on the original topic, I ended up buying the cheapest road wheels I could find, Shimano R501. I'll take them on a couple of training rides and see whether the weight reduction is worth the comfort reduction. Either way, they'll be useful for commuting, so I can save my (5 times more expensive) touring wheels...

Rowan 12-06-12 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevage (Post 15020965)
Heh. Well, it's a pretty good bureaucrat at that - nice to look back at all the rides I've done, see the total k's per month etc.

For those of us with the ability to use Excel... it's easier than having to invest in stuff and update it all the time. But whatever rolls your wheels.

I'll be interested in seeing how you go on the last stages of Baw Baw. Breathtaking view from the top, though.

unterhausen 12-06-12 11:20 AM

it's funny, I don't have a computer on my bike but I do occasionally go look at my stats on the RUSA site to see how far I've ridden. Strangely interesting

stevage 12-13-12 04:17 AM

Ok, I ended up signing up for the 7 peaks thing. I have done ONE PEAK. :)

I did the Baw Baw climb with just the new front wheel (didn't have time set up the rear). Hard to tell if it made a difference, as I also changed removed a lot of other weight: the rear rack, and a bunch of tools I carry around. Happy to report I found that ride pretty comfortable.

However, when I switched out the rear wheel - wow. The new wheel is much lighter (Shimano R501 vs a Mavic A319 with Alpine III's and 35mm Vittoria Randonneur Cross Pro's). I did a quick 40k spin, and found myself frequently spinning out my middle ring (36x12).

So on the strength of that - lighter wheels do make a difference. Not really convinced either way about the tyres - will see if I have any comfort issues after another 150km ride this weekend (Warburton-Lake Mountain-Donna Buang).

Steve

Rowan 12-13-12 09:35 PM

Well done on signing up for the 7Peaks. You'll get two on the Audax Alpine Classic, so that will be three. All you have to do is toddle up to Marysville and do the Lake Mountain one (or has Donna Buang been brought into the list this year?).

Also great to read you got to the top of Baw Baw and felt comfortable doing it. It's a good measure of where you're at...

Interesting comment about the wheels. I'll will be keen to see how durable they are on the longer rides.

Sounds as though you are well on the way to success in January.

stevage 12-13-12 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowan (Post 15048052)
Well done on signing up for the 7Peaks. You'll get two on the Audax Alpine Classic, so that will be three. All you have to do is toddle up to Marysville and do the Lake Mountain one (or has Donna Buang been brought into the list this year?).

Donna isn't on the list - I think the criteria is "alpine resorts". It does feel like an odd omission (and Dinner Plain seems out of place). But yeah, Lake Mountain on Sunday, and I'm making plans to get Buller in early January: http://goo.gl/maps/cBClO

Quote:

Sounds as though you are well on the way to success in January.
Yeah, I'm feeling much more confident than when I started training. My Strava profile is here: http://app.strava.com/athletes/149007 (Most of Sep/October is misleading - that was actually hiking overseas.) I think I like my chances if the weather is cool. But if it's mid 30s, not so much.

Rowan 12-14-12 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevage (Post 15048242)
Donna isn't on the list - I think the criteria is "alpine resorts". It does feel like an odd omission (and Dinner Plain seems out of place). But yeah, Lake Mountain on Sunday, and I'm making plans to get Buller in early January: http://goo.gl/maps/cBClO

We thought so, too, about Dinner Plain, but it's not a bad ride, and except for a few dips at the top, is a steady climb up through some nice country.

It's really weird, however, getting to all these places with their multi-million-dollar facilities all but deserted. Most are shut up tight. I suppose that's the way of the alpine resorts -- make megabucks during the season, and close down for the summer. Must be a bit boring for the people staffing the Info Centres through summer, though...

stevage 12-14-12 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowan (Post 15049673)
We thought so, too, about Dinner Plain, but it's not a bad ride, and except for a few dips at the top, is a steady climb up through some nice country.

And so far from anywhere!
Quote:

It's really weird, however, getting to all these places with their multi-million-dollar facilities all but deserted. Most are shut up tight. I suppose that's the way of the alpine resorts -- make megabucks during the season, and close down for the summer. Must be a bit boring for the people staffing the Info Centres through summer, though...
Yeah, especially in Australia with such a short ski season. Baw Baw was actually really busy when we were up there - it was the start of the downhill mountain biking season, with free trail access. Good thing, too, as one of my friends came off on the descent and needed first aid treatment.

stevage 12-17-12 05:01 PM

Ok, Lake Mountain's done - we did this on Sunday:
http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=lsdtwycvpqkqplyy

Felt pretty comfortable - pushed quite hard up Lake Mountain, and a pretty reasonable speed up Donna. Started at 8:15, finished at 7:15, with a very long lunch break (maybe 2.5 hours) waiting for people. Also, given that there was 12km of dirt road, and that our descents were very slow (super cold drizzle, worn brake pads...) I'm starting to feel cautiously optimistic about completing the 200km in 13 hours.

On the wheels thing, I put my 12-36T on my new road wheel, but didn't have a spacer, so it rattled around the whole day, and made shifting painful. It could have been worse.

Rowan 12-17-12 09:18 PM

I was wondering about that 12km of dirt, but then realised that you probably came up Acheron Way, which is one of our favourite short rides up from Narbethong before it changes from bitumen to gravel.

Sounds like a good overall route for a day's riding.

stevage 12-19-12 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowan (Post 15061470)
I was wondering about that 12km of dirt, but then realised that you probably came up Acheron Way, which is one of our favourite short rides up from Narbethong before it changes from bitumen to gravel.

Yeah - it's gorgeous! Even the dirt bit was generally good, with just a few soft corners. It doesn't feel like much of a climb though. And one slightly annoying thing I realised afterwards about doing the route anti-clockwise is you miss out on both of the standard climbs: Marysville-Lake Mountain, and Warburton-Donna.

(Ow, another 175km yesterday: Ballarat-Melbourne. Podcasts and solo centuries: great combo!)

stevage 01-14-13 04:24 PM

I got another of the 7 peaks this weekend - thanks for the suggestion, Machka.
http://app.strava.com/activities/37446834
http://app.strava.com/activities/37446902

Lilydale-Jamieson-Merrijig (220km, with some odd detours) on Saturday, then Buller-Benalla (150km) on Sunday. First ever 200km day, and it was all in daylight! :) I was carrying a bit of camping gear and clothing which also slowed me down a bit.

All up, I'm feeling even more cautiously optimistic about the Classic in two weeks.


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