Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Senior Member garethzbarker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Kimpo, S. Korea
    My Bikes
    Specialized Roubaix Expert 09
    Posts
    694
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    training question

    I will participate in 2013 brevets. I am using LT zone specific training. I am training weekdays and need to lose weight/build base miles for 5 weeks then I'll do some more specific workouts. I'm confused about something. Why do people say you need at least 2 hours in zone 2 to benefit endurance? I only have time to ride an hour a day currently on weekdays. Cycling plans generally suggest zone 2 for base miles.

  2. #2
    Free Velo Vol! Dudelsack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Loovul
    My Bikes
    Bacchetta Giro ATT 26; Lemond Buenos Aires
    Posts
    6,201
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I saw your post on the 41. You've come to the right place.

    The problem is that most posters here actually ride their bikes a lot, so you may need to wait a bit for the answer.

  3. #3
    Senior Member garethzbarker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Kimpo, S. Korea
    My Bikes
    Specialized Roubaix Expert 09
    Posts
    694
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I can't wait I'd love to here the workouts some of these monsters use to accomplish those crazy distances.

  4. #4
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Dallas area, Texas
    Posts
    10,511
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You should do everything just like the experts say. Only if you don't have time for it or disagree with it or find conflicting expert opinions or are just too stubborn and opinionated to listen to other people, then you should do things however the heck you want to and forget the experts.

    On your specific question, would it be possible to ride, say, two hours every other day?

    If darkness is a problem, get a good headlight now, you'll need it eventually anyway.

    Generally, my training consists of riding 20-28 miles, but I don't get it done every day, either. Of course, I'm not the most fit person around, but hey, I'm having lots of fun, so it's okay. There are rando riders that I can't keep up with, but then again, there's always going to be rando riders I can't keep up with.

    Have you ridden any with the local club? If they're all very fit, ride as a paceline, etc., you may need a similar level of fitness to fit in. If some are fast and some are slow, you're probably ready now. Regardless, keep riding and give it a try when you get a chance.
    "be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

  5. #5
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Dallas area, Texas
    Posts
    10,511
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by garethzbarker View Post
    I can't wait I'd love to here the workouts some of these monsters use to accomplish those crazy distances.
    Here's one of the local monsters. This is Vickie. I did a "Christmas Ride" with her yesterday. We rode through Frost, Frosa, and over Christmas Creek. She rides long rides (200k) on weekends, most Saturdays and a lot of Sundays. She uses a trainer during the week. The last two or three years, she has ridden two 1200k's each year. This year, she did the Colorado High Country and Taste of Carolinas. Last year, she did PBP and the Texas Rando Stampede.


    And here's another one of the local monsters. This is Sharon. I think right now, she is the top female RUSA-mileage rider. She'll generally ride one or two 200k's on weekends, and goes to the gym during the week for spin class or whatever. The reindeer antlers were used to increase drag to give us additional leg strength. (Not really, we're just having fun out there!)


    I've never heard either one of them talk about how many hours they spent in zone 2.
    "be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

  6. #6
    Senior Member garethzbarker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Kimpo, S. Korea
    My Bikes
    Specialized Roubaix Expert 09
    Posts
    694
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the tips Stephan, I do sometimes ride with a Korean group on weekends. I'm saving weekends for fun long unstructured rides and using weekday mornings for stricter training.

    These training questions are kind of geared for people that use LT HR zone training. I know a lot of people don't. In fact I haven't met anyone in involved in randos here in Korea that does as far as I know. A lot of them tour or simply commute as training.

    I'm going to add another question: Let me start by saying I'm not sure if you do need a longer ride to reap endurance benefits from a Z2 workout, I came here to ask because another fellow stated it. If in fact a zone 2 ride isn't effective at building endurance for rides less than 2 hours am I better of doing a zone3 and then a recover ride the next day? My original plan was daily zone 2s. This seemed perfect because it's event paced and I need weight loss, Z2 is perfect for fat burning.

    If my training questions seem anal and newbie it's because I generally just play on my bikes doing countryside touring and stuff and I'm not nearly in shape enough for the Spring Brevets so I want to do my best to prepare. Once I get a little training out of the way and lose some weight I'll probably wear antlers too
    Last edited by garethzbarker; 12-16-12 at 07:31 AM.

  7. #7
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Dallas area, Texas
    Posts
    10,511
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I didn't answer your specific training question because I don't know anything about that. But, I have seen some pretty unfit-looking people that could complete a reasonably hilly 200k within the specified time. If you expect to do it in 8 hours, or expect to stay with a particular group, that training may be a lot more critical. But if you can tour the countryside now, in reasonably hilly countryside, then you're quite likely already in shape for a 200k. You may take longer than anyone else, may ride by yourself- but don't be afraid to give it a try, either. If I was waiting until I was in "proper" shape to do this, I wouldn't have started yet! Your best guide for completing a 300k is how you feel after a 200k- if you pace yourself, finish, and don't feel completely beat, then you try the next longer distance. I've also learned that with a whole BUNCH of exercise, you still have to watch what you eat, or the weight stays with you to an extent. If you can cut back on the calory intake while boosting the exercise, you get a double benefit from it all.
    "be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."

  8. #8
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    8,063
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Well, it's because endurance doesn't kick in until you start to endure. It's kind of a definition thing. You can't expand your limits without pushing your limits. OTOH, you don't really need to ride long except once a week. So focus on that weekend ride. For that ride, if you're alone, ride out until you are quite tired, then ride back. Push your limits. Randoing is the Dark Side of cycling. Embrace your dark side. Suffer.

    Then your weekday 1 hr. Z2 rides will be just fine. You'll need them to recover and just get in the weekly miles. I like to see around 150 miles/week for randoing on non-brevet weeks.

    Another schedule that works is one day of speed work about 25 miles, one day of climbing repeats also about 25 miles (1 1/2 hrs.) one recovery day ride 30-35 miles and a longer hilly ride on the weekend 45-75 miles. That's all you need, but that probably doesn't work with your schedule.

    Another thing you could look at is The Time Crunched Cyclist. Do that program during the week, then get out for a long ride on the weekend.

    As far as the LT thing goes, it's good to know your LT, so when you're climbing or doing hill repeats you know about what you should be doing. I like to get about an hour of LT work per week. Something like that. Then your times in zone will pyramid down from that.

  9. #9
    Upgrading my engine DXchulo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Reno
    Posts
    5,607
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I agree that you should focus on that long weekend ride and sort of build the rest of your week around that. For example, if you do your long ride on Sunday, then you probably want Monday and Tuesday to recover. If you're recovered on Wednesday and you only have an hour to ride, then do what you can to make the most out of that time. An hour in Zone 2 seems like a waste. Do intervals, a fast group ride, or whatever pushes your limits. If you want to lose weight and you only have an hour, you should focus on keeping your intensity high. That long weekend ride is enough to build your endurance.
    centuryperweek.blogspot.com

  10. #10
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    CID
    My Bikes
    1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX
    Posts
    7,697
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by garethzbarker View Post
    I will participate in 2013 brevets. I am using LT zone specific training. I am training weekdays and need to lose weight/build base miles for 5 weeks then I'll do some more specific workouts. I'm confused about something. Why do people say you need at least 2 hours in zone 2 to benefit endurance? I only have time to ride an hour a day currently on weekdays. Cycling plans generally suggest zone 2 for base miles.
    Even if I hadn't seen Dudelsack's post, I'd guess you'd wandered in from the 41. All of this serious technical "training" crap. Just ride to work if you can, and make your weekend fun rides longer and longer. Can you do a century yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
    RUSA #7498

  11. #11
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,287
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    All of this serious technical "training" crap. Just ride to work if you can, and make your weekend fun rides longer and longer.
    You don't have to get all that technical. Ride hard one day a week, do one rest day, up your miles a little bit each week, and voila you've got the basics of a workable training plan.

  12. #12
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    8,063
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    Even if I hadn't seen Dudelsack's post, I'd guess you'd wandered in from the 41. All of this serious technical "training" crap. Just ride to work if you can, and make your weekend fun rides longer and longer. Can you do a century yet?
    His first brevet isn't until mid March, about the same as ours. He doesn't have to have ridden a century yet. Our winter training series is here:
    http://www.seattlerandonneur.org/ind...=443&Itemid=45

    The OP is welcome to examine the timing, distance, and elevation gain of each of the WTS rides and pattern their weekend rides after them. Particularly note the elevation gain. If they do that, they'll be able to ride the brevet series.

    I don't know about road conditions in the OP's area. Their weather is a little bit colder than ours, but if the roads are clear it should be possible to ride a winter training series.

  13. #13
    Senior Member garethzbarker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Kimpo, S. Korea
    My Bikes
    Specialized Roubaix Expert 09
    Posts
    694
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    Even if I hadn't seen Dudelsack's post, I'd guess you'd wandered in from the 41. All of this serious technical "training" crap. Just ride to work if you can, and make your weekend fun rides longer and longer. Can you do a century yet?
    haha. Yeah I should loosen up a bit. I have in fact completed a a century and a 200k before under event settings but it was flat, we had a support truck and I didn't carry anything. It was also kind of hard and my time wasn't great. I'm pretty confident I'll complete the 200k brevet but I'd like to have fun while doing it instead of worrying about my time and speed. I guess I'd rather work a little harder now and play during the Brevet. But I'm also considering a fleche group, I want to be pretty fit in order to commit to that ride. If I fail a brevet it's no big deal but I don't want to mess up a fleche for my partners.

  14. #14
    Senior Member garethzbarker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Kimpo, S. Korea
    My Bikes
    Specialized Roubaix Expert 09
    Posts
    694
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    His first brevet isn't until mid March, about the same as ours. He doesn't have to have ridden a century yet. Our winter training series is here:
    http://www.seattlerandonneur.org/ind...=443&Itemid=45

    The OP is welcome to examine the timing, distance, and elevation gain of each of the WTS rides and pattern their weekend rides after them. Particularly note the elevation gain. If they do that, they'll be able to ride the brevet series.

    I don't know about road conditions in the OP's area. Their weather is a little bit colder than ours, but if the roads are clear it should be possible to ride a winter training series.

    Thanks so much for the training info. The weather here is pretty cold but I have a Surly with stuffed tires I take out on weekends or warmer days. I'm doing my weekday training in a gym with a HR monitor, thus all the interest in training technique.

  15. #15
    Senior Member k7baixo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    PHX AZ
    My Bikes
    Bacchetta CA2.0
    Posts
    495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I had a pretty good year and honestly, I have no idea how much time I spent in any zone. My training was most flat roads of around 45-60 miles. When I failed a wet, hilly, cold 600, I did go and climb a local mt once a week for about a month and then I added intervals and club rides to the mix - I doubt that I ever exceeded 40 miles in the two months leading up to my longest ride, a 1200. I'm not fast but then again, fast was never my goal.
    Cheers, Gerry
    gerryelam.wordpress.com

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Escondido, CA
    Posts
    1,893
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
    Well, it's because endurance doesn't kick in until you start to endure. It's kind of a definition thing. You can't expand your limits without pushing your limits. OTOH, you don't really need to ride long except once a week. So focus on that weekend ride. For that ride, if you're alone, ride out until you are quite tired, then ride back. Push your limits. Randoing is the Dark Side of cycling. Embrace your dark side. Suffer.

    Then your weekday 1 hr. Z2 rides will be just fine. You'll need them to recover and just get in the weekly miles. I like to see around 150 miles/week for randoing on non-brevet weeks.
    I'm not sure what would be accomplished by adding 1 hr. Z2 rides in the schedule. They are too short to build endurance, too slow to build power, and simultaneously too short and too slow to burn fat. If I had time to ride for 1 hour/day on weekdays, I'd do either intervals or Z3/Z4 3 days per week and sit on the couch recovering the remaining 2. (Adjust intervals to couch ratio as needed, based on observed fatigue and performance.)

    P.S. Just so we're all on the same page here, are we talking about Z2 meaning 80% to 90% of heart rate at lactate threshold, e.g., if my LTHR is 160, then Z2 is 128 to 144? There are multiple competing definitions. According to this one, I have be super tired and/or consciously restrain myself on every small hill to keep from getting out of Z2 and into Z3/Z4.
    Last edited by hamster; 12-17-12 at 01:19 AM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member skiffrun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    623
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    ... . All of this serious technical "training" crap. ...
    + 1

    I ride about twice a week. Sometimes more. Sometimes less.
    103 rides so far this year, with a total of 9100+ miles (which includes 10009 RUSA credit kms) --> average 89 miles per ride.

    If I remove the 16 errand / city rides:
    87 rides for 8780 miles (and of course that includes all the RUSA kms).

    I expect every non-errand ride to be FUN.
    They almost always are.

    I've had a couple days this year where I was tired or coming down with a cold.
    Those rides were not FUN, but I knew how to finish them: back off the effort and just keep pedaling.
    It helped on the one when I was coming down with a cold that a friend was along, and he waited, a lot.

    My friend Robert trains and trains and trains. That was his approach his entire life as a runner.
    He is often tired.
    That may have been part of his plan this year in preparation for the Taste of Carolina 1200.
    He finished the ToC, and then did a 1000 a month later.

    I don't train.
    I just get on the bike and go ride.
    However, if I feel like going fast, which usually isn't until late in a 200k, I do.
    If I am enjoying the scenery or watching the cotton harvest, or even the tobacco harvest, I'll dawdle a bit.
    If I come to a climb, and feel like going up it in a big-a$$ gear, I do.
    If I come to a climb, and am in good cadence, then I ride up it like I should.
    If I come to a climb, and ... for whatever reason, spinning in the granny seems like a good idea, that's what I do.

    I do not ride with a heart monitor.
    I "listen" to my legs.
    I listen to my breathing.

    Half the time, in the last two years, my cycle confuser has needed a new battery.
    It can be very liberating riding a 200k solo, knowing only the time of day.

    If I've drifted off the back of the group with the local RBA during a Permanent, I'm willing to ride miles and miles and miles alongside VERY soft-spoken Alan listening to cycling stories of decades long gone.

    If I've drifted off the front of my usual group during a 200k, and I'm in the mood, I just keep going.

    My training advice is: go ride your bike, preferably for a long ride. Have FUN.
    Last edited by skiffrun; 12-19-12 at 04:54 AM.

  18. #18
    just another gosling Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Everett, WA
    My Bikes
    CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
    Posts
    8,063
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by garethzbarker View Post
    Thanks so much for the training info. The weather here is pretty cold but I have a Surly with stuffed tires I take out on weekends or warmer days. I'm doing my weekday training in a gym with a HR monitor, thus all the interest in training technique.
    I don't quite understand what you are saying. You have snow on the roads, so really can't ride distance outside before March? What are "stuffed tires?" If you can't ride outside, my best advice is to go with the Time Crunched Cyclist plan. You can do all that on a trainer and be ready for when you can get out. HIIT does increase speed and endurance, no question. Just not as much as long rides, but if that's not possible it's a great fallback.

  19. #19
    Randomhead
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    12,404
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    All of this serious technical "training" crap.
    I keep thinking about taking my training seriously, but where is the fun in that? I ride when I can, try to do as much climbing as I can without wearing myself out. If I have been pushing myself too hard I take a day off. I'm pretty sure that my weight is the biggest thing holding me back from faster rides.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •