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  1. #51
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homeyba View Post
    Long distance riding isn't the same as your average 200k
    I don't understand this comment. This means full fenders and fat tires aren't tangibles that might matter to other long distance riders in the rain in the dark on a 400k?

    what is the rarified air of 'long distance' that makes fit the only variable that matters?

    was this thread about race fit for racing across america? The guy was asking about frames, for crissakes. It's like, people don't ride bikes with long reach brakes on RUSA events or something.

    Bizarre.

    smoothiefendered.jpg (Smoothie ES discount mispaint) I've been meaning to get a fit too -for about 10 years! - but now know a certain LD philosophy i'll take pains to strenuously avoid.
    Last edited by Bekologist; 01-03-13 at 07:45 AM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  2. #52
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six jours View Post
    One of my first jobs, after failing miserably at bike racing, was rent-a-cop, and I did in fact spend a great deal of time yelling at people to get off the lawn. Sadly without an M1 Garand...

    But I guess my point is that if you're "serious" about it you do get onto the internet (or whatever) and bother to learn something about the topic, which you then apply to your own situation. Blindly trusting the local guru - while carefully avoiding any actual knowledge of your own - is just too 21st century for my own sensibilities. YMMV, as always...
    I don't remember anyone suggesting that having a fitting done should replace training or your own research. Nor has anyone suggested "blindly trusting the local guru". Frankly I don't think there's anything controversial about this topic outside of BF, I've never met a cyclist who didn't have his own ideas about fit and hasn't at least tried to ballpark his fit on his own. I've also met many who benefitted from having a 'professional' fine tune that fit, though I certainly recognize that the quality of said professional - as in every other area of life - varies greatly.

    To dismiss this second group as a bunch of new age pansies says more about your personal accumulation of prejudices than the topic at hand.

    Oh and Kelly had a crap fit and would have gone a lot faster and further had he listened to LeMond.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    I don't understand this comment. This means full fenders and fat tires aren't tangibles that might matter to other long distance riders in the rain in the dark on a 400k?

    what is the rarified air of 'long distance' that makes fit the only variable that matters?

    was this thread about race fit for racing across america? The guy was asking about frames, for crissakes. It's like, people don't ride bikes with long reach brakes on RUSA events or something.

    Bizarre.

    smoothiefendered.jpg (Smoothie ES discount mispaint) I've been meaning to get a fit too -for about 10 years! - but now know a certain LD philosophy i'll take pains to strenuously avoid.
    Don't be so determined to get in an argument, this isn't A&S. If you want to learn something, just open your mind a little and read what's been written.

  4. #54
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    Don't be so determined to get in an argument, this isn't A&S. If you want to learn something, just open your mind a little and read what's been written.
    don't harsh on me. from the second post to this thread, where fenders or more rubber was discarded as 'not really mattering', there's been something in the discussion that everyone is seeming to be strenuously avoiding so as to placate the fit fanatics.

    Explain, commodus, the proliferation of bicycle frames geared towards long distance riding - not endurance racing with sag wagons or 1200k 4 day events, just regular old long distance riding -

    are designed with room for fenders, long reach brakes and a wider tire?

    Why does everyone from Waterford to Soma to Gunnar to Raleigh make bikes with relaxed angles and fitments, specifically geared towards comfort and riding long days in the saddle? Why have some of the carbon whips engineered for all day riding moved in this direction as well? And, what is this whole 650B big tire phenomenon about anyways?

    this stuff doesn't matter?

    Everyone is wiling to ignore this in a talk about long distance frames? And i'm the bad guy for bringing up things like contact patch in the dark in the wet, and not eating road grit.




    Forgetting there's such a thing as bike frames with long reach brakes and room for fenders seems a crucial oversight in a discussion about what makes a frame suitable for long distance.

    Come on, you're giving me a little too much grief. i've already kowtowed that fit matters a lot, you don't want to get cleat burn. yada yada.

    You certainly 'prefer larger tires' so i guess if you want to do that, you'll have to choose a frame that takes LR brakes and larger tires.

    the comfort derived from larger tires is a reason people choose bikes that can run them? I guess not to fitters that think tires are a cheap fix for a bad fit.

    here's what i said in my first post, to which the fitter strenuously objected.

    Quote Originally Posted by bekologist
    of course fit is crucial.

    A few frame specifics like frame angles, increased wheelbase, lower BB drop and such contribute to a bicycle frames ride as much as the front end geometry being chased after and all in vogue nowadays.

    I always found a larger tire to give more pneumatic trail on the front end, and different feel on a long ride, so there's the 35c question too if sticking with 700c wheels.

    A slightly longer wheelbase, tire fit, greater drop, and a slacker set of angles contribute to better handling too as far as i can tell.
    Yes, fit matters. What works on a long day ride doesn't work on a cross country race. Whatever. Can't interfere with "the experts".

    I'll happily ride le lanterne with a dry chamois instead, snapping pictures while doing 65kmh with enough rubber on the road i could comfortably roll over a gaping pothole and pass some grey poupon at the same time to the guys in the support car.

    if i had a support car, that is.
    Last edited by Bekologist; 01-03-13 at 09:48 AM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  5. #55
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homeyba View Post
    I have to disagree. Longer wheelbase, greater drop, slack angles etc. change the way a bike handles (it steers slower) but doesn't make it handle better or worse. It depends on what you are looking for. Race bikes, which put a premium on handling, have very short wheelbases and quick steering. You can be just as comfy on a race geometry frame as on a frame with slack geometry.
    Fit is all about having your body in a optimal position on a bike based on your physiology. A persons optimal contact points/positions for the type of riding they are doing don't/shouldn't change regardless of the frame geometry.
    Fat tires are a cheap fix and a crutch for poor frame/wheel choices.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
    don't harsh on me. from the second post to this thread, where fenders or more rubber was discarded as 'not really mattering', there's been something in the discussion that everyone is seeming to be strenuously avoiding so as to placate the fit fanatics.

    Explain, commodus, the proliferation of bicycle frames geared towards long distance riding - not endurance racing with sag wagons or 1200k 4 day events, just regular old long distance riding -

    are designed with room for fenders, long reach brakes and a wider tire?

    Why does everyone from Waterford to Soma to Gunnar to Raleigh make bikes with relaxed angles and fitments, specifically geared towards comfort and riding long days in the saddle? Why have some of the carbon whips engineered for all day riding moved in this direction as well?

    this stuff doesn't matter?

    Everyone is wiling to ignore this in a talk about long distance frames? And i'm the bad guy for bringing up things like contact patch in the dark in the wet, and not eating road grit.




    Forgetting there's such a thing as bike frames with long reach brakes and room for fenders seems a crucial oversight in a discussion about what makes a frame suitable for long distance.

    Come on, you're giving me a little too much grief. i've already kowtowed that fit matters a lot, you don't want to get cleat burn. yada yada.

    here's what i said in my first post, to which the fitter strenuously objected.



    Yes, fit matters. What works on a long day ride doesn't work on a cross country race. Whatever. Can't interfere with "the experts".

    I'll happily ride le lanterne with a dry chamois instead, snapping pictures while doing 65kmh.
    I'm not disagreeing with you. You're just not reading what's being written. There's no controversy in saying you can be comfortable on a racing bike for long distances, it's a simple truth.

    There's also no controversy in extolling the virtues of relaxed geo frames and fenders. As noted above, it just depends what you are looking for.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Homeyba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you. You're just not reading what's being written. There's no controversy in saying you can be comfortable on a racing bike for long distances, it's a simple truth.

    There's also no controversy in extolling the virtues of relaxed geo frames and fenders. As noted above, it just depends what you are looking for.
    Just ingore the guy, he's just trolling.
    It doesn't get harder, you just go slower.

  7. #57
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homeyba View Post
    Just ingore the guy, he's just trolling.
    That has been his pattern. I put him on "Ignore" months ago.
    2014 Trek DS.1: "Viaggiatore" A do-it-all bike that is waiting in Italy
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  8. #58
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homeyba View Post
    Just ingore the guy, he's just trolling.
    about the tangible differences in road sport and 650 rando frames in a discussion about frames for long distances.

    right.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  9. #59
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you. You're just not reading what's being written. There's no controversy in saying you can be comfortable on a racing bike for long distances, it's a simple truth.

    There's also no controversy in extolling the virtues of relaxed geo frames and fenders. As noted above, it just depends what you are looking for.
    so, you agree with this statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by homeyba
    Fat tires are a cheap fix and a crutch for poor frame/wheel choices.
    i'm not trolling, i'm having a discussion about bike frames for long distances. it's readily apparent fit matters. there's no controversy in extolling the virtues of relaxed geo frames, a preference for fat tires and fenders, right?

    Last edited by Bekologist; 01-03-13 at 10:54 AM.
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  10. #60
    Senior Member Steamer's Avatar
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    Bek - being right isn't all it's cracked up to be.



    hell, i think all you guys are idiots for not riding recumbents. :whistles, rolls eyes, and walks away:

  11. #61
    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamer View Post

    hell, i think all you guys are idiots for not riding recumbents. :whistles, rolls eyes, and walks away:
    "Evidence, anecdote and methodology all support planning for roadway bike traffic."

  12. #62
    Administrator CbadRider's Avatar
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    Reading through this thread makes my head hurt. It's run its course, time for closure.
    Quote Originally Posted by toddles View Post
    So Tom only hires people that are nutty? Is part of the requirement to be a moderator on this site is that you have to be nuts??
    Forum Guidelines *click here*

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