Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 53
  1. #26
    rhm
    rhm is offline
    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NJ, NYC, LI
    My Bikes
    1940s Fothergill, 1948 Raleigh Record Ace, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1972 Fuji Finest, 1983 Trek 720, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
    Posts
    12,700
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by noteon View Post
    It probably varies some with leather stiffness and rider weight. Still, at the very least, I do think it's much exaggerated.
    Yes, I agree with that. More to the point, I think a lot of the people who talk about it don't know what they're talking about. In particular I have grave misgivings about all the talk of doing anything to a saddle to hasten the process.

  2. #27
    Carpe Velo Yo Spiff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    My Bikes
    2000 Bianchi Veloce, '88 Trek 900, '88 Schwinn Prologue, '92 Schwinn Crosscut, '03 Diamondback Tandem, '94 Yokota Grizzly Peak
    Posts
    2,502
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    On a group ride yesterday, I was inquiring to someone else about some fancy scrollwork she'd had done to her B17. She mentioned that the saddle has not softened up as she expected since she bought it last May. I went and gave a few pushes on it with my thumb and it felt pretty similar to my own B17 that I also bought last summer. I explained to her that is just how they feel. They conform to your butt, but never get cushy soft. My 13 year old Team Pro only has slightly more give to the leather.

    I did buy a B67s for my wife, and that has a bit of cush and give when brand new, but it is also by design.
    2000 Bianchi Veloce, '88 Schwinn Prologue, '88 Trek 900, '92 Trek T100, 2000 Rans Tailwind

  3. #28
    Drops small screws noteon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    My Bikes
    Heavily modified Xootr Swift, Trek 1000SL that's been turned into a brevet bike, two 20" Torker Interurbans
    Posts
    2,600
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Without having asked around a lot, so this is just a guess:

    I suspect people used to modern saddles will initially level them the same way, which (for me, anyway) doesn't work. I'd also guess the setback limit has some butts riding too close to (or even on) the rear rim of the metal frame.
    RIDE: Short fiction about bicycles • RUSA #5538
    Learning to wrench better this year—current project: Fixie from build kit

  4. #29
    rhm
    rhm is offline
    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NJ, NYC, LI
    My Bikes
    1940s Fothergill, 1948 Raleigh Record Ace, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1972 Fuji Finest, 1983 Trek 720, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
    Posts
    12,700
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    All the remarks about setback have me wondering about frame geometry.

    Those of you who have complained about the Brooks saddle rails, are you riding pretty modern bikes? I have no setback problems with my old Brooks saddles, but I'm riding bikes that date back to the days when frames had more relaxed angles. In fact on two of my bikes, English frames from the 40's, the seat tube angle is so slack that I have to mount the saddle in front of the seat post-- otherwise there is too much setback.

    Bicycle frames have changed quite a bit more in the last fifty years than Brooks saddle frames have.

  5. #30
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    CID
    My Bikes
    1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX
    Posts
    8,902
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yeah, it's kind of unfathomable that Brooks has altered the shape of the B17 several times over the years, but didn't bother to tweak the rails when seat tubes got steeper. I mean, come on, moving the bend forward wouldn't gotten in the way of mounting it on older bikes!
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
    RUSA #7498

  6. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    319
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    Recently another forum member and I decided to try to collaborate and come up with a new design leather saddle. Basically it would be a compromise between popular shapes of modern saddles and the traditional materials of a century old Brooks etc. He will do the metal work, I will do the leather.

    snip

    I would appreciate any serious suggestions, observations, etc. Especially from you guys who spend a lot of time on your saddles.
    I'd like to see a non-suspended leather saddle along the lines of a Specialized Romin, Avatar, etc. This would provide all the advantages of a modern saddle with the look of a classic.

    Matt

  7. #32
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    NW,Oregon Coast
    My Bikes
    7
    Posts
    3,088
    Mentioned
    44 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    One of the Selle Anatomica's developers, a day's ride was 200 miles ,
    like Fairfield to Santa Rosa, Cal, for example..

    Died on a Bike ride . Pump gave out, Ticker stopped Ticking..

    we had some communicatiobns back in the early release days..
    since I was raised in that Nor Cal area..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 02-10-13 at 03:06 PM.

  8. #33
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    My Bikes
    Terraferma 650b, Mondonico SL and ELOS, Masi Gran Criterium, Trek 610, Breezer Liberty, Georgena Terry Classic
    Posts
    11,197
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes, Tom Miller (RIP).

  9. #34
    Senior Member Gravity Aided's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    2,564
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    2 designs may be good from a marketing standpoint. One with a wider, flatter back that is sprung, for tour and other more upright riders, and one that is narrower for the racing saddle crowd who ride more in a tuck position on the drops, or just prefer that saddle fit .
    midlifecyclistblog.wordpress.com www.facebook.com/bill.midlifecyclistblogger

  10. #35
    Senior Member LucF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    My Bikes
    Cervélo R3, Trek Wahoo
    Posts
    94
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    1. A good saddle for me is one that fits (me) and has a standard build (so I can attach generic equipment to it).
    2. My B17N fits me perfectly, but I would do without the rear holes for straps.
    3. No.
    4. I like short but have been comfortable on saddles with 1 in. variations in length.
    5. Width is very important. Fundamental to fit.
    6. Weight is not as important as comfort, but it is important (in the long distance rider's perspective). I wouldn't like my saddle to weigh for aesthetic reasons.
    7. Never tried them but they look useful.

  11. #36
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    7,090
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Difficult to answer what seems a simple question. What makes a good saddle good? Warning - this may get lengthy.

    I'm a long-time Brooks user. I have a B17 on my touring bike, and a Swift on one of my road bikes. Both excellent, when I come to buy another saddle it will almost certainly be a Brooks Swift or Swallow. They do break in, but in my experience they are pretty comfortable out of the box and the change in shape is quite modest.

    I have experimented with a number of other saddles, including some with perineal cut-outs. In this category were the Specialized Toupe and Phenom saddles. The Toupe cut me to pieces, the only saddle I have used that gave me saddle sores. The phenom was much less horrible, but still unacceptable. For some reason both these saddles left me with tenderness above the sitbones.

    The Fizik Aliante, by contrast, is almost as comfortable as my Brooks Swift. And the stock saddle that came with a Giant SCR a few years ago (branded as Giant, but I have no idea whether they make it or buy it in) was another that has been problem-free.

    So to answer your question I've thought about the differences beyween the Aliante and the stock giant saddle, on the one hand, and the two specialized offerings on the other. I think it something to with the rate at which the saddle falls away from from the flattish area on which one sits. The specialized saddles stay flattish, then terminate pretty sharply. The ones I like seem to curve away more gradually. My guess is that when shifting around on the saddle, as one inevitable does in the course of a long ride, the more gradual curves are more forgiving if for example, one finds oneself a few millimetres forward of one's usual position.

    Another related possibility is that the broken-in Brooks, having conformed somewhat to your shape, holds you in position better and therefore prevents you getting into inappropriate positions that might cause issues. Plus, they too tend to curve away more gradully than the specializeds.

    I don't know if this helps you in the slightest, but it has made me think in rather more detail han before about what suits me and why, so thanks.

  12. #37
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    My Bikes
    Terraferma 650b, Mondonico SL and ELOS, Masi Gran Criterium, Trek 610, Breezer Liberty, Georgena Terry Classic
    Posts
    11,197
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    I believe in leather saddles, and recycling, and craftsmanship. So last year I started recovering old leather saddles and have done about 33 so far (see this thread if interested).

    Recently another forum member and I decided to try to collaborate and come up with a new design leather saddle. Basically it would be a compromise between popular shapes of modern saddles and the traditional materials of a century old Brooks etc. He will do the metal work, I will do the leather.

    So my question for you guys (both the ladies and the gentlemen), is this: what makes a good saddle a good saddle? H ave you ever had a saddle that was perfect except for maybe one thing that you couldn't fix (and what was it)? Have you ever wished you could get a saddle with some feature or other that was not available? To what degree does length matter? Or width? Or weight? How about a perinneal cutout?

    I would appreciate any serious suggestions, observations, etc. Especially from you guys who spend a lot of time on your saddles.
    RHM and FTW:

    What I've been thinking about is a tensioned leather saddle with a lightweight structure - Ti or CrMo tubular rails with very generous straight sections, like the tubes from a Toupe (Ti) or an Alias (tubular CrMo), with a composite or plastic cantle such as on in teh Berthoud design. I like both a B17 and a Selle AnAtomica, so I don't know exactly what I'd like as far as shape. The Specializeds I've used show me that I like a flat top profile, a cutout, a non-compliant surface (both Alias and Toupe are too squishy), and a very narrow saddle from say the 50% point up to the nose.

    Here the Toupe 143 would be a pretty decent model for the narrowness I would want. I find the S-A sideskirts can't be "pulled in" far enough for me without full-range bolt tensioning, and that results in a very hard support for my ischials. Not sure if the saddle top will last with that setup. I tried lacing one to narrow it, but the lace tension rotated the leather so that my body became exposed to the cutout edges - ouch!

    Honestly I don't recall if the B-17 sideskirts are comfortable for me, since Mrs. Road Fan took over my B-17 from me.

    I think replacing the solid steel of an S-A with lightweight stuff could save a pound, leaving us to devise a strategy to reduce the weight of the leather top. I would not want to thin it due to durability concerns, but perhaps some high-tensile strength fabric can be engineered to have similar elasticity to the leather of an S-A top or a Brooks, or (like a Lepper) have leather inserts added at strategic locations on the tensioned saddle top.

    So this is kind of an anecdotal description of what I'd be interested in.

  13. #38
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    My Bikes
    Terraferma 650b, Mondonico SL and ELOS, Masi Gran Criterium, Trek 610, Breezer Liberty, Georgena Terry Classic
    Posts
    11,197
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ftwelder View Post
    I noticed the B-17 has a flatter cantle plate than a lot of saddles when viewed from the back. It seems like people prefer to sit just forward of the cantle plate where on a typical road saddle one would sit on the cantle plate.
    To me the desire to sit on the cantle is just a symptom of the saddle/bike/seatpost system not meeting the requirements of enabling the rider to balance himself based on proper rear end placement, such as described in Peter White's essay on fitting the bike to the rider.

  14. #39
    The Left Coast, USA FrenchFit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,445
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Although I own a few, (and sold a few Pros on eBay), my issue with Brooks saddles is their nose. It's very prominent and involves too much interaction with the package in a rotated position. The hammock effect of the Selle An Atomica is even worse in this respect. So, riding in the drops can be a punishing experience, even rotated down in a hoods position is a close call. The old racing saddles I use sort of roll off at the nose, and were shorter = more room for the package when rotated forward. Otherwise, the setback on the Pro is ridiculous, and the B17 is not that much better.


    My break-in on black Brooks saddles has been fairly fast, but not so with a honey B17. It tooks years for that saddle to feel right; what's true for one isn't true for all.

  15. #40
    Hopelessly addicted... photogravity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Central Maryland
    My Bikes
    1949 Hercules Kestrel, 1950 Norman Rapide, 1970 Schwinn Collegiate, 1972 Peugeot UE-8, 1976 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Jack Taylor Tandem, 1984 Davidson Tandem, 2010 Bilenky "BQ" 650B Constructeur Tandem, 2011 Linus Mixte
    Posts
    4,775
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFit View Post
    Although I own a few, (and sold a few Pros on eBay), my issue with Brooks saddles is their nose. It's very prominent and involves too much interaction with the package in a rotated position. The hammock effect of the Selle An Atomica is even worse in this respect. So, riding in the drops can be a punishing experience, even rotated down in a hoods position is a close call. The old racing saddles I use sort of roll off at the nose, and were shorter = more room for the package when rotated forward. Otherwise, the setback on the Pro is ridiculous, and the B17 is not that much better.


    My break-in on black Brooks saddles has been fairly fast, but not so with a honey B17. It tooks years for that saddle to feel right; what's true for one isn't true for all.
    I, like you, find that because of the protrusion of the nose on a Brooks saddle, I need to adjust my set for better reception. Since I don't ride the drops a lot, it's not a huge deal for me, but I am ever mindful of the potential of getting bad reception and try to remember, before a ride where there is potential for strenuous climbing or fast coastdowns which will put me in the drops, to make an appropriate adjustment of the set beforehand.
    --
    Ridding the world of derailleurs, one bicycle at a time.

    46 Hercules Roadster, 49 Hercules Kestrel, 50 Norman Rapide, 51 Hercules Lion, 52 Hercules Windsor, 56 Hercules Royal Prince, 61 Fiorelli Tandem, 67 Carlton Super Race (IGH), 70 Schwinn Collegiate (IGH), 71 Hercules, 71 STF Hercules, 72 Peugeot PX-8 (IGH), 76 Raleigh Sports, 77 STF Raleigh Sports, 77 Jack Taylor Tandem, Early-80's Mike Appel SC, 84 Davidson Tandem, Late-80's Alpine, 10 Bilenky "BQ" Signature Tandem

  16. #41
    I Love My Dream
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,029
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey folks, I thought I would bring to everyone's attention the seat posts I use with my Brooks saddles since setback seems to be an issue. Enough setback is definately a problem because of the short rails on the saddles, in the old days of slack seat tubes it didn't matter as much. Truvativ to the rescue, they make a couple of seat posts in the Stylo line that offer 25mm of set back, perfect. Both are cheaper than the Paul Components option.

    Brooks B-17 Flyer on a Stylo T-20 on a Surly Troll


    Brooks B-17 Flyer by SaddleUpBike, on Flickr

    I use a Stylo T-30 on the LHT, marginally lighter.
    It's none of my business what other people think of me.

  17. #42
    I Love My Dream
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,029
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hangtownmatt View Post
    I'd like to see a non-suspended leather saddle along the lines of a Specialized Romin, Avatar, etc. This would provide all the advantages of a modern saddle with the look of a classic.

    Matt
    It's been done, it's called the Brooks B-17 Narrow Imperial. If you are trying to improve on currently available saddles the Imperial is your target. It doesn't get better than that IMO. I work in a LBS that sells Specialized saddles and when I look at saddles like the Toupe, Romin, Avatar etc., I see a plastic version of the Brooks Imperial.
    Last edited by Saddle Up; 04-12-13 at 08:57 AM.
    It's none of my business what other people think of me.

  18. #43
    Senior Member trescojones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New South Wales, Australia
    Posts
    60
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    favorite leather saddle of all time was Ideale 88 or 90 the shape of the steel back and nose width was perfect. Ideale 43 not so. I like the brooks b66 once its broken before that its too wide. Brooks leather can be a bit too tough, selle a bit too floppy for a drops position. Always wanted to check out leppers they have some interesting designs. I recondition saddles too, have used a variety of leather
    Last edited by trescojones; 04-16-13 at 08:06 PM.

  19. #44
    Senior Member onbike 1939's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Fife Scotland
    My Bikes
    Airnimal Chameleon; Ellis Briggs; Moulton TSR27
    Posts
    1,906
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbycorno View Post
    1) Brooks B17, except that I can't move the damn thing far enough back on a normal seatpost.
    2) see #1
    3) Very little
    4) Very much
    5) Very little
    6) Not at all

    Of course YMMV. But if you could come up with a B17 with about an inch more rearward "travel" at a price I could justify, I'd buy one.

    SP
    OC, OR
    There is an option which does give you the set-back you need and has thicker leather which is water-proofed.

    http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products....=m2b0s204p2667

  20. #45
    aka Phil Jungels Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    North Aurora, IL
    My Bikes
    08 Specialized Crosstrail Sport, 05 Sirrus Comp
    Posts
    5,849
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    One thing to consider, while trying to figure out how to make the rails longer, would be to make the seat(rear) portion a little longer. The advantage of that, would be to enable different sit positions, body wise, while still having the proper platform to be planted on. I've also wondered if it would be advantageous to lace the sides to the rails, rather than each other.

    "Retirement is the best job I ever had!" Me, 2009


    Specialized Crosstrail Sport - '08
    Nishiki Sport - misappropriated from my youngest son (circa 1984)
    Marin Stinson - misappropriated by my youngest grandson - '01
    "The Beast" - 1990 Schwinn Airdyne (in the basement for winter torture)

  21. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    319
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Isn't the Brooks B-17 Narrow Imperial a suspended saddle? By suspended I mean stretched leather.

    Matt

    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    It's been done, it's called the Brooks B-17 Narrow Imperial. If you are trying to improve on currently available saddles the Imperial is your target. It doesn't get better than that IMO. I work in a LBS that sells Specialized saddles and when I look at saddles like the Toupe, Romin, Avatar etc., I see a plastic version of the Brooks Imperial.

  22. #47
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    CID
    My Bikes
    1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX
    Posts
    8,902
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    I think Selle Anatomica saddles address the setback issue. My concern -- and this may be due to the fact that I haven't tried all of them -- is finding a tensioned leather saddle with a flat rear section like the B17, but with the width of a Pro and an even more gradual taper from front-to-back. My Pro is great in the width department (I wouldn't want anything narrower like the B17N), but it's had this roundness to the top that my perineal region doesn't always agree with.
    FWIW (which may not be much), I need to amend this a little. I rode a 200k on a nearly-virgin Brooks B5N yesterday and loved it. The flatter top section, tough leather, and narrower width meant that nothing is sore but my sitbone area, and there was very little pressure in between them. From my reading, the B5N was very close to the shape of a B17N -- mine is 150mm across at the widest part. If this describes the current B17N, it might be the perfect saddle for me, and I'd consider replacing my B17's and Pro with one if it weren't for the cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
    RUSA #7498

  23. #48
    I Love My Dream
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,029
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I took suspended to mean some sort of spring system.
    It's none of my business what other people think of me.

  24. #49
    rhm
    rhm is offline
    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NJ, NYC, LI
    My Bikes
    1940s Fothergill, 1948 Raleigh Record Ace, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1972 Fuji Finest, 1983 Trek 720, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
    Posts
    12,700
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    So, I recently tried a little something new. What I want to make is a saddle with the heavy suspended leather construction of an old Brooks (or Ideale or whatever) but shaped more like a modern one. To do this right, I am going to need a custom cantle plate and frame; and I'm working on this, but have nothing yet. In the mean time I have collected some old saddles that are too far gone to use, and put new leather on those, usually in the same shape as the original, more or less.

    But on this one I wanted to try a prostate-friendly groove. So instead of cutting a hole in it, like a Brooks Imperial, I put an actual groove down the center:



    Here it is installed on my old Fuji Finest.



    You don't have to tell me it looks great -- no one else has, so far! And I'm not giving it a rave review either. I've only ridden it a few times, less than a hundred miles. The shape isn't quite right; too wide in the center.

  25. #50
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    CID
    My Bikes
    1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX
    Posts
    8,902
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Looks promising, if Buick-y. Maybe using a narrower rear end would bring the center section in enough?
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
    RUSA #7498

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •