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-   -   Too much? (http://www.bikeforums.net/long-distance-competition-ultracycling-randonneuring-endurance-cycling/869071-too-much.html)

skiffrun 01-27-13 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unterhausen (Post 15204796)
... very contentious RBA's.

Did you mean conscientious RBA's? As I interpret your post, "conscientious" would make more sense.

unterhausen 01-27-13 06:01 PM

yes, edited, thanks

Rowan 01-27-13 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unterhausen (Post 15200947)
I don't think you have to ride the whole thing in a single go, unsupported. You can ride it in pieces. Also, it pays to have volunteers pre-ride parts of the route. Scouting in a car is fine as long as you aren't using a gps to navigate.

It has become practice in some regions for the organiser and officials to pre-ride the route together under all the normal rules and qualify as finishers of the event if they get in under the required time... for the very important following reason:

To check the route for errors in the instructions (which are more common than most people are prepared to admit);

To check the distance readings on the computers used to set the course (to ensure some semblance of accuracy); and

To check road conditions, including signposting, surface and traffic flows.

There is a duty of care that lays with organisers to ensure that all those facets of the event are taken care of before the participants set off.

Steamer 01-27-13 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowan (Post 15205601)
It has become practice in some regions for the organiser and officials to pre-ride the route together under all the normal rules and qualify as finishers of the event if they get in under the required time... for the very important following reason:

To check the route for errors in the instructions (which are more common than most people are prepared to admit);

To check the distance readings on the computers used to set the course (to ensure some semblance of accuracy); and

To check road conditions, including signposting, surface and traffic flows.

There is a duty of care that lays with organisers to ensure that all those facets of the event are taken care of before the participants set off.

These are all valid, and most (all?) can be served by scouting by car.

I agree that scouting by bike can be better than by car, for other reasons mentioned in this thread though.

I think what may help, most specifically with cue sheet accuracy, is having someone otherwise unfamiliar with the course do the car scouting / bike pre-ride. Organizers who are familiar with much of the course already are sometimes apt to miss bad cues, just simply because their brain inserted the correct information (instead of what the sheet said) when they arrived at the turn.

ThermionicScott 01-27-13 07:05 PM

Just speaking for myself, it means a lot when my RBA has done the route on his bike. It means that he has experienced much of what we will, and "eats his own cooking" for lack of a better term.

Even though an RBA is under no obligation to ride their routes via bike, I would have a much lower opinion of him if he just hopped in his minivan to scout it out and said "good luck!" on the day of the event.

Machka 01-27-13 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeyba (Post 15204127)
You can certainly scout it in a car but I think you risk missing things that you wouldn't on the bike. Especially traffic patterns and road hazards. I've done a number of brevets and been on roads I'd never normally ride on because of the type of traffic or other road hazards that you might not notice from your car. A couple examples; one brevet had us on a road with a continuous barrage of logging trucks and with drivers who had very little patience for cyclists on "their" road. The organizers didn't realize there were so many trucks on that section of road because when they drove it they didn't notice the trucks. Another brevet had us on a road with sewer grates every 100yds for several miles, the kind that have the grates parallel with our direction of travel and love to grab front wheels. We had to ride into traffic to go around them. Finally, an RBA routed us over a metal grate bridge. One lady lost control of her bike on the bridge and face planted. You don't want to know how ugly that was. There was no need to even go over that bridge as there was a simple alternate route. Those are just a few examples there are many more. That's why I would encourage actually riding the route instead of driving so that you get an actual idea of the hazards involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 15205664)
Just speaking for myself, it means a lot when my RBA has done the route on his bike. It means that he has experienced much of what we will, and "eats his own cooking" for lack of a better term.

Even though an RBA is under no obligation to ride their routes via bike, I would have a much lower opinion of him if he just hopped in his minivan to scout it out and said "good luck!" on the day of the event.

+1 to both!

After riding the whole route within the time limit (and you can do it with a small group of people as a test ride), it is a good idea to ride various sections of the route at different times of the day, week, and year. Become very familiar with what the riders may see and experience. And send other riders out on parts of the route too.

A 200K might not require so much attention, but the 1000 and 1200Ks should, especially if they might attract people from all over the world.

Rowan 01-28-13 07:24 AM

One of the most important points that can be discovered on a recce ride is the position of the sun at sunrise and sunset. The worst condition for a rider is with the sun straight ahead, meaning motorised traffic coming up from behind can be blinded and not see the rider. Observing for these conditions may take a number of hours depending on the ride window through the location.

A recce ride also can determine whether turns across busy highways are appropriate, particularly late in an event when a rider's judgment might be just askew enough to take a risk that could end badly.

Organising a long ride like a 1000 is not an easy task and cannot be done effectively from the driver's seat of a car or in front of a computer screen.

And the point that has already been made about organisers failing to include vital instructions "because everyone knows what to do there" cannot be reinforced strongly enough, and especially if there is a chance even on person from outside the organiser's region might participate. Having critical and independent eyes following draft route instructions is more than helpful is determining mistakes and misunderstandings.

unterhausen 01-28-13 12:10 PM

I know of some incredibly well-planned rides that have been scouted mostly by car. People that aren't thorough are going to do a crappy job if they ride a route 5 times

StephenH 01-28-13 12:33 PM

One thing I notice is that bikes are sensitive to little bumps, cars are sensitive to big bumps, so you can have roads that seem fairly smooth in a car that are rough on a bike, and vice versa.

Your perception of the volume of auto traffic is different in a car. You'll meet more oncoming vehicles, but see very few going your way, as compared to riding a bike.

Machka 01-28-13 07:30 PM

Some of the best routes I've ridden have been scouted, designed ... and ridden by a particular person in the BC Randonneurs and another particular person in the Victoria group of Audax Australia. Both people ride a lot ... top of their clubs for events and distances ridden. They know what works for cyclists and what doesn't, and they've designed routes that not only look good on paper, but which they themselves enjoy riding ... and that enthusiasm spills over onto the participants.

One of the things I'm looking forward to when we return to Victoria, is doing some of those rides again.

2d2f 05-03-13 06:19 PM

Zeljko,

I'm going to ride with you.

zeljko 05-04-13 12:00 PM

...and, how much time in advance, I must announce date of the ride?

2d2f 05-05-13 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeljko (Post 15587348)
...and, how much time in advance, I must announce date of the ride?

A few days would be fine.

I suppose that Machka is from Balkans originally, so maybe she could join us too.


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