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-   -   My tires are better than your tires (http://www.bikeforums.net/long-distance-competition-ultracycling-randonneuring-endurance-cycling/870936-my-tires-better-than-your-tires.html)

krobinson103 03-28-13 02:58 AM

Lol.. my best tires cost me a whole 20 each. To be honest apart from offering more in the way of cushioning and better grip on gravel I sense no speed advantage when comparing 1.75 26 inch tires on my modded mtb and 28c 700's on my hybrid. In a race it might matter, when commuting it seems marginal at best.

Commodus 03-28-13 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krobinson103 (Post 15440398)
Lol.. my best tires cost me a whole 20 each. To be honest apart from offering more in the way of cushioning and better grip on gravel I sense no speed advantage when comparing 1.75 26 inch tires on my modded mtb and 28c 700's on my hybrid. In a race it might matter, when commuting it seems marginal at best.

This is not the commuting forum...

for long distance, performance riding a nice set of tires is the best investment you can make.

krobinson103 03-28-13 08:55 AM

Quote:

This is not the commuting forum...

for long distance, performance riding a nice set of tires is the best investment you can make.
Ride 500km a week and 160-200km every weekend on said tires. No complaints.

njkayaker 03-28-13 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six jours (Post 15233352)
I enjoy the white walls too.

They are actually "natural rubber" color (sort of a light brown/beige). It was common for all tires "some years ago" even 21 mm "racing" tires.

njkayaker 03-28-13 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krobinson103 (Post 15441080)
Ride 500km a week and 160-200km every weekend on said tires. No complaints.

Again, it's different. The rando rides basically start at 200km and have to be completed in a set amount of time. Small advantages in efficiency start to add-up to be significant on those longer rides. The fact that you have "no complaints" doesn't mean that these other tires won't be better for other people.

Carbonfiberboy 03-28-13 11:31 AM

I dunno. My tires may be better:
http://www.michelinbicycletire.com/m...4endurance.jpg
I've don't usually pimp my tires, but these have been exceptional. Very smooth roll, fewer cuts or flats than normal, little tendency to pick up glass, great traction in the wet. These four attributes are usually incompatible. I'm running 19mm rims with 25c tires. I think they would be even nicer on 22mm or 23mm rims. Good tire for 90% of randonneurs.

ThermionicScott 03-28-13 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njkayaker (Post 15441351)
Again, it's different. The rando rides basically start at 200km and have to be completed in a set amount of time. Small advantages in efficiency start to add-up to be significant on those longer rides. The fact that you have "no complaints" doesn't mean that these other tires won't be better for other people.

Lighten up, man -- centuries count here and he does plenty of them.

Commodus 03-28-13 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 15441751)
I dunno. My tires may be better:

I've don't usually pimp my tires, but these have been exceptional. Very smooth roll, fewer cuts or flats than normal, little tendency to pick up glass, great traction in the wet. These four attributes are usually incompatible. I'm running 19mm rims with 25c tires. I think they would be even nicer on 22mm or 23mm rims. Good tire for 90% of randonneurs.

You must have nicer roads down thar. I'm partial to the big fatties round these parts.

Chesha Neko 03-28-13 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 15441751)
I dunno. My tires may be better:
http://www.michelinbicycletire.com/m...4endurance.jpg
I've don't usually pimp my tires, but these have been exceptional. Very smooth roll, fewer cuts or flats than normal, little tendency to pick up glass, great traction in the wet. These four attributes are usually incompatible. I'm running 19mm rims with 25c tires. I think they would be even nicer on 22mm or 23mm rims. Good tire for 90% of randonneurs.

I was running those right before I switched to Hetres on 650B. I agree, the 25mm PRO4 SC is a great supple and light tire. Going to Hetres has been an incremental improvement overall, except cornering on the Hetres is even more amazing than the PRO4's, which were the best I'd tried to that point. The trade off is a bit more rolling resistance IMO with the Hetre's, which I feel is worth it for the increased comfort -- for me.

njkayaker 03-28-13 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 15441830)
Lighten up, man -- centuries count here and he does plenty of them.

??? "Count" for what? We also have no idea at all what tires he's talking about. So, it can't "count" for anything!

He missed the point (as you did). Twice.

A few percentages of efficiency really don't matter that much for a century or most double metrics (since it's generally fairly easy to finish them comfortably in the alloted time and in daylight). And, if the extra efficiency reduces the amount of time you need to right at night, the value of that efficiency is larger (since people tend to be slower riding at night).

(You should take your own advice, by the way.)

Hoffsta 03-28-13 02:16 PM

I'm looking forward to trying these tires soon. I want to go all the way with Extra Leger, Pacenti rims, and a Stan's tubeless setup. I think that is about as good as it gets for 650b x 42mm performance!

ThermionicScott 03-28-13 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njkayaker (Post 15442168)
??? "Count" for what? We also have no idea at all what tires he's talking about. So, it can't "count" for anything!

He missed the point (as you did). Twice.

A few percentages of efficiency really don't matter that much for a century or most double metrics (since it's generally fairly easy to finish them comfortably in the alloted time and in daylight). And, if the extra efficiency reduces the amount of time you need to right at night, the value of that efficiency is larger (since people tend to be slower riding at night).

(You should take your own advice, by the way.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LD forum description
Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials?

By "count" I meant he does ride the type of distances that we discuss here, so krobinson's input is not as irrelevant as you would make it out to be.

BTW, "calmer 'n you." :)

krobinson103 03-28-13 03:41 PM

220km in 10 hours (with 2000m of climbing) and 160km in 5:45 on a flat bar that weighs 14kg loaded fast enough for you? Way under the time limit. :) Mitchellon country and gravel (or a similar one). They have little or no flat protectipn but rolling resistence is mininal at speeds up to 60kmh at which point I have luttle desire to go faster anyway.

Six jours 03-28-13 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 15441751)
I dunno. My tires may be better:
http://www.michelinbicycletire.com/m...4endurance.jpg
I've don't usually pimp my tires, but these have been exceptional. Very smooth roll, fewer cuts or flats than normal, little tendency to pick up glass, great traction in the wet. These four attributes are usually incompatible. I'm running 19mm rims with 25c tires. I think they would be even nicer on 22mm or 23mm rims. Good tire for 90% of randonneurs.

I am spoiled by super-wide tires now. I have been riding handmade 25mm tubulars this week and am annoyed at how harsh they are. Twenty years ago I considered such tires the lap of luxury.

(On the racing bike with the tubulars my normal route takes me 65 minutes. On the Rohloff/Hetre bike it takes me 68. I would not race with Hetres, but at this point in my life, those three minutes couldn't be less important.)

Chesha Neko 03-28-13 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Six jours (Post 15443149)
I am spoiled by super-wide tires now. I have been riding handmade 25mm tubulars this week and am annoyed at how harsh they are. Twenty years ago I considered such tires the lap of luxury.

(On the racing bike with the tubulars my normal route takes me 65 minutes. On the Rohloff/Hetre bike it takes me 68. I would not race with Hetres, but at this point in my life, those three minutes couldn't be less important.)

+1. This sums it up.

krobinson103 03-29-13 01:42 AM

Totally agree. Who really cares about 3 minutes?

njkayaker 03-29-13 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krobinson103 (Post 15444025)
Totally agree. Who really cares about 3 minutes?

This is silly. No one is "caring" about just 3 minutes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by krobinson103 (Post 15440398)
Lol.. my best tires cost me a whole 20 each. To be honest apart from offering more in the way of cushioning and better grip on gravel I sense no speed advantage when comparing 1.75 26 inch tires on my modded mtb and 28c 700's on my hybrid. In a race it might matter, when commuting it seems marginal at best.

To be "honest", this really doesn't mean much. Are you saying that you'd complete a road 300k in the same amount of time on both with the same amount of effort?

3 minutes for a short ride that doesn't have time limits isn't that valuable. That's obvious and not what people are talking about. And the benefit could be more compared to another tire. That 3 minutes is 30 minutes on a 10 h ride (about a 200k). It's 1 h on a 20 h ride. That could easily be the difference between qualifying and not qualify for many riders.

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/0...ance-of-tires/

Quote:

The fastest tire, the Deda Tre, rolled 20% faster than the slowest, the Rivendell Nifty-Swifty. A 20% difference in on-the-road speed is huge!
Quote:

Originally Posted by krobinson103 (Post 15442634)
220km in 10 hours (with 2000m of climbing) and 160km in 5:45 on a flat bar that weighs 14kg loaded fast enough for you? Way under the time limit. :) Mitchellon country and gravel (or a similar one). They have little or no flat protectipn but rolling resistence is mininal at speeds up to 60kmh at which point I have luttle desire to go faster anyway.

It doesn't appear that that tire is being sold in the US. It's listed as "discontinued" here. But at least people now have some idea what tire you are talking about.

http://www.treefortbikes.com/product/333222369450/544/Michelin-Country-Gravel.html

It's still listed on the Michelin site but no other US company appears to sell them.

http://www.michelinbicycletire.com/m...trygravel.view

This tire is "similar" and about $20.

http://www.michelinbicycletire.com/m...untryrock.view

Quote:

Originally Posted by krobinson103 (Post 15442634)
220km in 10 hours (with 2000m of climbing) and 160km in 5:45 on a flat bar that weighs 14kg loaded fast enough for you? Way under the time limit. :) Mitchellon country and gravel (or a similar one). They have little or no flat protectipn but rolling resistence is mininal at speeds up to 60kmh at which point I have luttle desire to go faster anyway.

How does your speed help other riders?

njkayaker 03-29-13 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 15442526)
By "count" I meant he does ride the type of distances that we discuss here, so krobinson's input is not as irrelevant as you would make it out to be.

It isn't at all clear what the heck his "input" means.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 15442526)
BTW, "calmer 'n you."

Not really.

Carbonfiberboy 03-29-13 09:31 AM

3 minutes isn't necessarily the point. Not getting tired while hanging with a group is nice, though. Not getting flats is nice. If one has a good LD frame, tires and pressures don't make or break anything. I've ridden 23c @ 140 lbs. on many a long ride or brevet with complete comfort and not a little speed. Saying "my tires are better than your tires" is pretty funny though. On what bike in which season in what weather on which roads with what expectations with which riders? But I hope the sixer meant this thread to be entertaining rather than a flame-fest. Entertainment is what's being offered, that's for sure.

I would say that if I added 3 minutes in 20-25 miles I'd be so far off the back of the group of friends that I hang with now - and going a little harder is not an option. But everyone has a different situation, different goals. Ride what makes you happy, if you can find it, happiness that is. Tire technology keeps changing and getting better. My favorite tires last year are not my favorite tires this year. It's a constant search.

Six jours 03-29-13 03:20 PM

I did indeed mean the thread name as tongue-in-cheek; kind of poking fun at how emotional we can get about things like bike tires. And as you point out, Carbonfiberboy, "better" can mean all sorts of things to different people.

The only "serious" issue here, IMO, is "Here are the new Hetres, and here is what they are about" - just for folks who may be considering them, or may perhaps think ultra-wide tires automatically relegate a bike to "cruising the bike path" duty.

ThermionicScott 03-29-13 06:00 PM

That'll teach ya to post a joke thread about a serious topic here on BF. ;)

Six jours 03-29-13 07:08 PM

Apparently not... :roflmao2:

Six jours 03-29-13 07:14 PM

Oh, and FWIW, note that the three minutes I wrote about are not just tires - or maybe not tires at all. On my racing bike I have proper cleats, a low/aerodynamic position, an efficient drivetrain, and maybe the fastest tires available today. On the Rohloff bike I have (obviously) a Rohloff hub, very heavy wheels/rims, a relaxed position, and plain rubber soles with loose toe straps.

So while I won't try to argue that Hetres are as fast as FMB tubulars, I will definitely argue with anyone claiming that Hetres are significantly slower than the typical "performance" clincher used by many of today's randonneurs.

krobinson103 03-30-13 02:23 AM

Quote:

To be "honest", this really doesn't mean much. Are you saying that you'd complete a road 300k in the same amount of time on both with the same amount of effort
Nope I'm saying I couldn't care less if its harder... I'll just cycle a little harder. Anyway its not my goal here to justify which tire is best, but to state that it really doesn't make that much of a difference. Its always been my feeling that a ride is 90% rider and 10% bike. I could be riding the best cf roadie in the world and a pro racer could wipe me off the map on a $100 walmart mtb.

If you like your tires good for you. If you are saying that they are a deal breaker for a longer rider... sorry can't agree. The difference between knobblies and slicks? Obvously. But slicks vs slicks? Don't think so.

Bekologist 03-30-13 04:17 AM

no, no, krobinson103.

Tires do indeed make that much of a difference.

there are garden hoses, and there are teflon pillows on crack.

20 bucks a tire buys a rider garden hose.


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