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-   -   Negative thoughts during a century (http://www.bikeforums.net/long-distance-competition-ultracycling-randonneuring-endurance-cycling/913109-negative-thoughts-during-century.html)

Machka 09-16-13 04:51 AM

hambertloot (the OP) is 17 years old. He's really only just getting into the whole cycling thing and probably (evidently) had not sorted out the eating.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...re-easy-for-me


I think it's great that he's out cycling, and doing things like riding centuries, rather than spending time at home sitting in front of a TV or computer. More teenagers should do such things!

antimonysarah 09-16-13 09:00 AM

Definitely agree with more variety in the food -- being vegan shouldn't be a problem at all (I'm a lactose-intolerant vegetarian, so my on-bike food is almost all vegan although I have more convenience-store options than you will), but eating ONLY sugar on long rides will. You still want mostly carbs, but not just fast-acting sugar. You might be putting enough calories in but sugar-crashing at that point. And it's not at the 75-mile point you need to fix your nutrition, but at the 30-45 mile mark. I wouldn't worry about getting protein on the road -- fat is easier to carry, and both will slow your digestion down a bit. Plus complex carbs.

If you are a caffeine fanatic, lay off it for a week before the ride, and have a coca-cola (or coffee or whatever) at mile 75.

Also, if you keep thinking you want to relax, as you eat, slow down and relax on the bike -- gear down and chill out for a bit.

Homeyba 09-16-13 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antimonysarah (Post 16070725)
... I wouldn't worry about getting protein on the road ...

I agree with everything you said there except that part. Protein is often neglected and lack of it is a source of problems for many long distance riders. That is why most long distance fuels now include it. You don't need a lot but you do need it. Balance is the key. :) You can't live and do long distances effectively on carbs alone.

Carbonfiberboy 09-16-13 12:47 PM

Ah, vegan. Hammer Nutrition has always advocated using soy protein instead of the whey that I use. Their long distance fuels are vegan AFAIK. I agree about the protein. Gotta have a certain amount.

hambertloot 09-16-13 04:52 PM

I will vary the food. I tested apples on my ride and it felt good. I would do bananas but you can't really carry them in jersey pockets :)

I'll look into some Hammer Nutrition to add to my rides

StephenH 09-16-13 10:17 PM

The stoker on my tandem has lots of food issues. Bananas are one thing she can eat. They go in the fold-down pannier on the trunk bag. Some convenience stores sell them, some don't. We'll stop by grocery stores when convenient just for that one item, though.

By the way, I really like Ritz Crackerfuls, the peanut butter ones specifically. I assume they have some protein, haven't checked to see.

eja_ bottecchia 09-16-13 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unterhausen (Post 16067854)
this used to happen to me all the time until I realized it just meant I needed to eat. I still have problems from 50-100 miles, but if I start getting negative I now know I have been getting behind on my calorie intake. I used to joke that my goal in long distance riding was having a ride where I didn't hate myself for doing it at some point in the ride. I've actually had a couple of rides where that didn't happen

This is IT.

antimonysarah 09-17-13 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeyba (Post 16071746)
I agree with everything you said there except that part. Protein is often neglected and lack of it is a source of problems for many long distance riders. That is why most long distance fuels now include it. You don't need a lot but you do need it. Balance is the key. :) You can't live and do long distances effectively on carbs alone.

I phrased that poorly -- I meant that he didn't need to carry a lot of specialty food to get protein -- nuts and stuff would be fine. It was more a knee-jerk reaction against things no one had said yet in this thread -- a lot of people elsewhere get really insistent that you can't exercise and not eat meat.

Italuminium 09-17-13 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antimonysarah (Post 16074678)
- a lot of people elsewhere get really insistent that you can't exercise and not eat meat.

When I first started to ride serious km's a week, culminating in a century, I was also on a vegetarian challenge. Absolutely no problem. So many nices pasta's and snacks for pre, post and during rides. But all not suitable if you're eating on hard mode.

I really hate nuts on a ride because they're either too fat or contain weird stuff that makes you thirsty (remember those free nut mixes in bars?). And they're annoying to eat in the saddle.

Null66 09-17-13 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 16069254)
What ingredients do you use? I use a ~7:1 mix of maltodextrin and flavored whey protein. I buy the malto in 50# bags from a homebrew supplier and the whey is Optimum Nutrition Gold. My mix does not go bad for a long time. I can mix it up the night before, go for a many hour ride, put the leftover bottle in the frig and it's still good the next day.

I'm another one advising more/different food. I get the same thing when my blood sugar gets low. Bummer. I hurt. This is too much work/stupid, etc.

Dates are about a 50/50 fructose/glucose mix, about the same as sucrose, table sugar:
http://www.foodintolerances.com.au/d...ood-table.aspx

Your brain runs on glucose and glucose only. Interesting article here:
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb...ructose-021011

Maltodextrin is a polysaccaride of pure glucose. You might try something like that. A simple test would be to take two bottles of Ensure with you and put them in one of your water bottles at the halfway point. Ensure contains both table sugar and maltodextrin with 18% protein and is 250 calories/bottle. If that works, you might experiment with Hammer Nutrition products.


NICE!
My SO and riding partner has a thing about drinking powders. She has good reason to have an aversion. So your Ensure trick might just do the trick!

I have found 2 scoups Perpeteum every 20 miles works for me. But I'm admittedly a clyde by nature, slow, out of shape, feel older then I am, and running loaded...

I hear that as you get in better condition you can reduce fueling?

Machka 09-17-13 06:11 PM

I use Ensure on a lot of my long rides. It "sits" better with me than a lot of the other options.

And yes, as you get fitter (a lot fitter) you can reduce fueling, but it does take time and a lot of cycling. And then, just when you think you've got it so you can do a century on a couple bananas and a granola bar, you do one that includes big hills and strong wind ... and you discover you need to eat everything in sight.

Carbonfiberboy 09-17-13 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Null66 (Post 16076855)
NICE!
My SO and riding partner has a thing about drinking powders. She has good reason to have an aversion. So your Ensure trick might just do the trick!

I have found 2 scoups Perpeteum every 20 miles works for me. But I'm admittedly a clyde by nature, slow, out of shape, feel older then I am, and running loaded...

I hear that as you get in better condition you can reduce fueling?

In a way you can. You get better at extracting stores to replenish blood sugar, but that only goes so far. Most folks in good condition and experienced on the bike can go 2 hours without eating or usually even drinking. However if the ride is going to be longer than that, everyone has a better ride if they start eating and drinking during the first hour.

My wife also doesn't like the powdered stuff, but does very well on Ensure. She like the chocolate.

RocDog 09-18-13 12:23 PM

So far, the advice has centered around eating food to ward off bonking, riding with others and doing some things to ward off bordom. You might also want to take a look at this from WebMD.

Good luck!

Dealing With Negative Thoughts - Topic Overview


What exactly is a negative thought?

Suppose a coworker or a grocery store clerk suddenly gave you a mean look. How would you react? Would you just let it slide off you, like water off a duck? Or would you take it personally and feel bad about yourself, or even get angry about it? If you turn small things into big things that bother you for days, weeks, or even longer, you're having negative thoughts.
Negative thoughts can make you feel sad and anxious. They take the joy out of life-and they can take a toll on your physical health. That's why it's so important to learn how to deal with them.

Living a Passionate Life

rumrunn6 09-18-13 01:28 PM

sounds like a lot of solitary time for a 17 yr young man. my son is 17 and he is quite busy with socializing w friends.

MattFoley 09-18-13 01:51 PM

I'm a firm believer that long rides are more mental than physical. 40 miles is the point at which I start feeling "over it". Definitely not related to my physical fitness, as I can ride 40 miles in my sleep...but I tend to get bored easily, and there's only so much time I can spend alone with my thoughts. The few times I've done long rides with a group has been MUCH more enjoyable, even if it's just chatting for a few seconds ever couple miles.

gecho 09-18-13 03:06 PM

I had negative thoughts at the START of my last ride. The other guys in the group started the ride far too aggressively for my liking given the strong wind. Even in a drafting position my heart rate was at an unsustainable level so I just had to give up and go at my own pace for the first 80km. After which the other 3 seemed to be feeling the effects of pushing too hard and I was able to keep up the rest of the day.

Or maybe that entire 800 calorie box of Macaroni and Cheese I ate for breakfast just wasn't sitting right at the start.

dalameda 09-18-13 04:24 PM

I break the century into 4 or 5 smaller rides. If it is an organized century that makes it easy as they often have rest stops every 20 or 25 miles. It is a lot easier to do 4 25 mile rides than 1 100 mile ride. I'll make each ride a little different (one section is about the food, one is about the music, one is about the other riders, one is about the signature climb) I'll still reach a point at about 75-85 miles where I think I never want to climb another hill in my life, but then I will pull out a special treat - it could be a piece of candy, energy bar, etc. that gives me that quick jolt needed to stay positive.

etw 09-18-13 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hambertloot (Post 16072696)
I will vary the food. I tested apples on my ride and it felt good. I would do bananas but you can't really carry them in jersey pockets :)

I carry bananas in jersey pockets and see lots of riders doing it. Otherwise, carry them in your shorts and really freak people out. :lol:

Machka 09-18-13 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumrunn6 (Post 16079952)
sounds like a lot of solitary time for a 17 yr young man. my son is 17 and he is quite busy with socializing w friends.

When I was 17 I enjoyed spending time alone too. I'd much rather go off on long rides or long walks than to socialise with people.
Some people are just not socially inclined ... we think better and work better when we're left alone.

Rowan 09-18-13 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocDog (Post 16079697)
So far, the advice has centered around eating food to ward off bonking, riding with others and doing some things to ward off bordom. You might also want to take a look at this from WebMD.

Good luck!

I am sure you mean well, but what you posted is almost irrelevant to long-distance cycling.

The vast majority of people posting here have done large numbers of LD rides (centuries or longer) and are well versed on the reasons why "negative" thoughts emerge about the 75 mile mark... and it has almost entirely to do with nutrition and hydration.

Practice at riding these sorts of distances does make a lot of difference.

I think huge kudos is due to the OP for taking an interest at the age of 17 in centuries and the reasons why he feels the way he does. I hope he continues to develop that interest and goes on to longer rides.

Rowan 09-18-13 10:35 PM

I'll also add that one of the factors that exacerbates the issue is discomfort. Often this is saddle related, but it also can be caused by feet (hotfoot), hands, shoulders, neck or knees. Cramps also can creep in. And there is that nasty issue of groin and butt chafe let alone sore sitbones. Putting up with any of those things can make the time taken to complete the last 25 miles seem like an eternity.

People who want the quick fix in their training dismiss Long Steady Distance as a legitimate early-season training method, but it has other functions besides improving fitness... it can identify the sorts of fit issues that are going to cause pain, and it can allow the body to get used to being outside its cushy comfort zone.

Three or four-hour rides each week will help whereas 90-minute HIIT sessions won't.

Of course, HIIT comes into its own when there is a solid base and a desire to build speed. But even then, there needs to be experimentation on nutrition and hydration at higher intensities over long periods. And so we come back to the issues of negative thoughts being related to food and fluids.

krobinson103 09-18-13 11:11 PM

I regularly ride 200-300km almost every weekend. It means I have to ride through the night and into the next day. I find that at 200km in I start to question my motives - especially if its 3am. Lots of food, water, a bottle of sports drink and music. Keeps me roing for up to 300km. Beyond that solo my will to ride fades as pain sets in.

Homeyba 09-19-13 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowan (Post 16081632)
...People who want the quick fix in their training dismiss Long Steady Distance as a legitimate early-season training method, but it has other functions besides improving fitness... it can identify the sorts of fit issues that are going to cause pain, and it can allow the body to get used to being outside its cushy comfort zone...

Hey! I resemble that remark! ;);) Except the part about a quick fix for my training part. I've always gone for training smart rather than long but that's really another discussion. I think we're all pretty much right on the fact that it's a nutrition issue here. Nutrition is one of the hardest things to nail down for all of us and this young rider had it doubly difficult by being vegan. That means a lot of extra planning and learning to listen to what your body is telling you. That's not easy and will take some time to learn. Heck, I've been doing this for years and still mess up.

One thing to look for if you go the Ensure or Boost route is the sugar content. Some of them are really high and that can cause problems unto themselves. They are also hard to find in power form which makes them a little difficult to carry on longer rides. Besides the Hammer products, you might look at Spiz. I've used it on several RAAMs and really like it. For me, it is much more palatable than the Hammer products, especially if it gets warm. Remember, depending on effort, you should be consuming between 250-350 calories (of quality food) per hour. You need to be careful of going overboard too. Too many calories can be as bad or worse than not enough. Here is an article by Steve Born on fueling. It's pretty good. http://www.hammernutrition.com.au/in...t-way-to-fuel/ On thing to remember is that fuels like Hammer products, Spiz etc are designed for racers and their requirements. If you are not racing or pushing yourself in a similar manner you may not have similar digestive issues which is why many randoneurs can get away eating more solid foods.
Lots to digest (pun intended) and it's a lifetime learning process. Try different things and come up with a recipe that works for you. Everyone is unique and what works for me or someone else may or may not work for you.

gecho 09-19-13 09:24 AM

I was looking into trying Spiz, but it seems fairly expensive. 2 scoops puts it around the calorie content of a bottle of Boost, which would yield 20 servings per $32 container (not including shipping, exchange and duty). Though beyond a 300km ride I wouldn't want to be carrying bottles of Boost due to the weight and storage space required.

ThermionicScott 09-19-13 10:43 AM

Vegan, huh? OP should make a close personal friend of Seitan then. ;)


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