Negative thoughts during a century
09-19-13, 10:48 AM
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I agree with food and water. I also take some tums and advil just in case.
Just put a limit on how, when and why questions to yourself
Just put a limit on how, when and why questions to yourself
09-19-13, 06:09 PM
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09-19-13, 06:12 PM
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I am sure you mean well, but what you posted is almost irrelevant to long-distance cycling.
The vast majority of people posting here have done large numbers of LD rides (centuries or longer) and are well versed on the reasons why "negative" thoughts emerge about the 75 mile mark... and it has almost entirely to do with nutrition and hydration.
Practice at riding these sorts of distances does make a lot of difference.
I think huge kudos is due to the OP for taking an interest at the age of 17 in centuries and the reasons why he feels the way he does. I hope he continues to develop that interest and goes on to longer rides.
The vast majority of people posting here have done large numbers of LD rides (centuries or longer) and are well versed on the reasons why "negative" thoughts emerge about the 75 mile mark... and it has almost entirely to do with nutrition and hydration.
Practice at riding these sorts of distances does make a lot of difference.
I think huge kudos is due to the OP for taking an interest at the age of 17 in centuries and the reasons why he feels the way he does. I hope he continues to develop that interest and goes on to longer rides.
I am going to do a double metric not this saturday but the following saturday. I am hoping to do maybe 1 or 2 double metrics before it gets cold, like around November. Who knows. Last year I was riding in December up in Ohio here, but the winter seemed to be pushed back as I couldnt ride outside until beginning of April!If the weather holds off, a 140-1500 miler solo will be my last long ride this year
09-19-13, 06:16 PM
#54
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Hey! I resemble that remark! 
Except the part about a quick fix for my training part. I've always gone for training smart rather than long but that's really another discussion. I think we're all pretty much right on the fact that it's a nutrition issue here. Nutrition is one of the hardest things to nail down for all of us and this young rider had it doubly difficult by being vegan. That means a lot of extra planning and learning to listen to what your body is telling you. That's not easy and will take some time to learn. Heck, I've been doing this for years and still mess up.
One thing to look for if you go the Ensure or Boost route is the sugar content. Some of them are really high and that can cause problems unto themselves. They are also hard to find in power form which makes them a little difficult to carry on longer rides. Besides the Hammer products, you might look at Spiz. I've used it on several RAAMs and really like it. For me, it is much more palatable than the Hammer products, especially if it gets warm. Remember, depending on effort, you should be consuming between 250-350 calories (of quality food) per hour. You need to be careful of going overboard too. Too many calories can be as bad or worse than not enough. Here is an article by Steve Born on fueling. It's pretty good. https://www.hammernutrition.com.au/in...t-way-to-fuel/ On thing to remember is that fuels like Hammer products, Spiz etc are designed for racers and their requirements. If you are not racing or pushing yourself in a similar manner you may not have similar digestive issues which is why many randoneurs can get away eating more solid foods.
Lots to digest (pun intended) and it's a lifetime learning process. Try different things and come up with a recipe that works for you. Everyone is unique and what works for me or someone else may or may not work for you.
Except the part about a quick fix for my training part. I've always gone for training smart rather than long but that's really another discussion. I think we're all pretty much right on the fact that it's a nutrition issue here. Nutrition is one of the hardest things to nail down for all of us and this young rider had it doubly difficult by being vegan. That means a lot of extra planning and learning to listen to what your body is telling you. That's not easy and will take some time to learn. Heck, I've been doing this for years and still mess up. One thing to look for if you go the Ensure or Boost route is the sugar content. Some of them are really high and that can cause problems unto themselves. They are also hard to find in power form which makes them a little difficult to carry on longer rides. Besides the Hammer products, you might look at Spiz. I've used it on several RAAMs and really like it. For me, it is much more palatable than the Hammer products, especially if it gets warm. Remember, depending on effort, you should be consuming between 250-350 calories (of quality food) per hour. You need to be careful of going overboard too. Too many calories can be as bad or worse than not enough. Here is an article by Steve Born on fueling. It's pretty good. https://www.hammernutrition.com.au/in...t-way-to-fuel/ On thing to remember is that fuels like Hammer products, Spiz etc are designed for racers and their requirements. If you are not racing or pushing yourself in a similar manner you may not have similar digestive issues which is why many randoneurs can get away eating more solid foods.
Lots to digest (pun intended) and it's a lifetime learning process. Try different things and come up with a recipe that works for you. Everyone is unique and what works for me or someone else may or may not work for you.
09-19-13, 08:06 PM
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Yeah, four of them as a racer, twice as a course official and once as a crew chief. What do you want me to talk about? I could talk aimlessly but that wouldn't be useful. It's better if you ask questions. Are you interested in doing RAAM someday? It's pretty tough and you will definitely have negative thoughts at some (probably several) points in that race.
I should point out that my response to Rowan was somewhat in jest. I do believe what he said is extremely appropriate, especially for the new long distance rider. No matter what, you have to earn your butt , so to speak. So ask away...
I should point out that my response to Rowan was somewhat in jest. I do believe what he said is extremely appropriate, especially for the new long distance rider. No matter what, you have to earn your butt , so to speak. So ask away...
09-19-13, 08:21 PM
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Careful with the advil. Not the best thing for the long distance rider Taking ibuprofen can mask pain to allow further injury, it can delay recovery and it also impairs kidney function by constricting the blood vessels into the kidneys and causing abnormal renal function. This can lead to Hyponatremia. If you are not careful, it can hurt you if you take too much.
09-20-13, 08:56 AM
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Careful with the advil. Not the best thing for the long distance rider Taking ibuprofen can mask pain to allow further injury, it can delay recovery and it also impairs kidney function by constricting the blood vessels into the kidneys and causing abnormal renal function. This can lead to Hyponatremia. If you are not careful, it can hurt you if you take too much.
09-20-13, 12:31 PM
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Remember, depending on effort, you should be consuming between 250-350 calories (of quality food) per hour. You need to be careful of going overboard too. Too many calories can be as bad or worse than not enough. Here is an article by Steve Born on fueling. It's pretty good. https://www.hammernutrition.com.au/in...t-way-to-fuel/
A lot of it is just experience and confidence, too. I think it's natural to have a moment of doubt on a long ride. After all, this isn't easy. But that feeling of satisfaction you get after the ride from being able to push through those difficult moments is a thing of beauty (and an important life lesson). The more you ride, the weaker the doubts become. After a while you will have pushed through so many difficult moments that none of them will phase you. You'll be able to say to yourself, "I've pushed through worse." If you're trying to break through a new barrier (a double century, for example), new doubts may arise, but the experience of pushing through doubts in the past will help.
So yes, experiment with your calorie intake and make sure you aren't running low. See what agrees with your body and what doesn't. It took me a while to figure all of that out. But don't be surprised if an extra 50, 100, 150 calories per hour doesn't solve all of your problems. Cycling isn't just physical exercise. It's mental, too.
09-20-13, 04:47 PM
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+1 on this. If he's like me and doesn't weigh much, he may not be too far off the mark with 200 calories per hour. In my earlier LD days I used to eat too much and that was a worse problem than not eating enough.
A lot of it is just experience and confidence, too. I think it's natural to have a moment of doubt on a long ride. After all, this isn't easy. But that feeling of satisfaction you get after the ride from being able to push through those difficult moments is a thing of beauty (and an important life lesson). The more you ride, the weaker the doubts become. After a while you will have pushed through so many difficult moments that none of them will phase you. You'll be able to say to yourself, "I've pushed through worse." If you're trying to break through a new barrier (a double century, for example), new doubts may arise, but the experience of pushing through doubts in the past will help.
So yes, experiment with your calorie intake and make sure you aren't running low. See what agrees with your body and what doesn't. It took me a while to figure all of that out. But don't be surprised if an extra 50, 100, 150 calories per hour doesn't solve all of your problems. Cycling isn't just physical exercise. It's mental, too.
A lot of it is just experience and confidence, too. I think it's natural to have a moment of doubt on a long ride. After all, this isn't easy. But that feeling of satisfaction you get after the ride from being able to push through those difficult moments is a thing of beauty (and an important life lesson). The more you ride, the weaker the doubts become. After a while you will have pushed through so many difficult moments that none of them will phase you. You'll be able to say to yourself, "I've pushed through worse." If you're trying to break through a new barrier (a double century, for example), new doubts may arise, but the experience of pushing through doubts in the past will help.
So yes, experiment with your calorie intake and make sure you aren't running low. See what agrees with your body and what doesn't. It took me a while to figure all of that out. But don't be surprised if an extra 50, 100, 150 calories per hour doesn't solve all of your problems. Cycling isn't just physical exercise. It's mental, too.
I am going to try 300 calories an hour tomorrow instead of 200
09-20-13, 06:58 PM
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I got this from a sports medicine Dr. who does research on triathletes.
"Of course, if you’ve been habitually popping ibuprofen through every event you’ve done and nothing’s happened, nothing ever will...until you find you haven’t peed after a race, start feeling sick and end up in the hospital, looking like a beached whale hooked up to dialysis. Then all those smokers and couch potatoes you thought you were better than are suddenly better off than you."
I assume that this is more the issue if you use them a lot. I'm sure once in a while probably isn't a big deal.
09-20-13, 07:00 PM
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09-21-13, 02:04 AM
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OP: In addition to the excellent nutritional advice given, I'll say this, just 'cause nobody else has.
I often fall into a bit of a funk while doing something really cool solo. A good example would be skiing- I am sometimes strangely bummed, when skiing alone, by mid-afternoon. I attribute it to just an amplified sense of loneliness brought about by how awesome the work of the day is, and how cool it'd be to share it with someone else.
I hope that made sense. I'm tired, off to bed.
I often fall into a bit of a funk while doing something really cool solo. A good example would be skiing- I am sometimes strangely bummed, when skiing alone, by mid-afternoon. I attribute it to just an amplified sense of loneliness brought about by how awesome the work of the day is, and how cool it'd be to share it with someone else.
I hope that made sense. I'm tired, off to bed.
09-21-13, 03:35 AM
#63
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Thanks for the advice. I take two 200mg with me and use them only I feel I need to. Often I don't. I only take them if I am cramping and the water, electrolytes, tums is not doing the trick. Sometimes it helps sometimes it does not. I will investigate its effects further. I have brought them on 100 plus rides since the 80's when it first became over the counter and our group labeled them the wonder drug as it worked so good.
The clue for me on how ibuprofen might not be so good for me was on PBP2003 when I had a particularly painful case of constipation, which was repeated on other, later rides when I was popping it quite often.
I rarely use it now.
09-21-13, 11:37 AM
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I agree with other posters that the two important issues here are, in order of priority (1) eating well and (2) learning to accept negative thoughts and just let them wash over you and disperse. I am just posting to suggest that you can tape bananas, wrapped sub sandwiches and other food items to your bike's frame tubes besides carrying them in jersey pockets or a bike bag. Just don't put your taped up food items where your knees or other body parts will bump into them and cause annoyance. And if you use masking tape, it's easier to rip your food out mid-ride... someone with a duct taped banana is asking for trouble.
09-24-13, 07:01 PM
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...learning to accept negative thoughts and just let them wash over you and disperse...
I've always have to fight negative thoughts and reactions to lactic acid buildup/muscle pains in most athletic endeavors I've participated in, from long distance swimming to alpine skiing, while hiking the length of the Appalachian Trail, and, of course, cycling! Dunno why that's my normal mental mode during exercise, but it is. Only happens when I'm trying to be athletic - never any other times. And I have never been able to "learn to live with it"!
My latest method to help me ride through them is fairly simple - boring but simple. I taped two strips of paper on my handlebars, one on either side of the stem. The left one has the word "Elephant" written on it. The right one has the word "Temporary" on it. Both are covered in clear tape to make them waterproof.
The two words reference things said here and elsewhere numerous times.
Elephant - you eat an elephant one bite at a time - right?!?!
Temporary - It's ALL temporary, feeling good, feeling bad, the boring, the ecstasy, weather, pain. Everything is temporary.
Since most of my rides are solo and I don't use music, audiobooks or other audio for safety reasons, I'm left to deal with whatever totally on my own. Recently, at the first hint of a negative (mental, pain, strain, whatever), I've been glancing at one or both of the two paper strips and "chant" the relevant saying (in my mind) like a yogi's "OM". Even on a relatively short ride today, I found myself looking to the strips for solace more than once. Got me through it... I totally dunno why.
Hard to imagine the tricks RAAM riders have to use to cover that distance! Definitely can't be as simple as this, though I've heard of semi-similar things (like "just ride to the next .... then I can quite/take a break/whatever").
09-24-13, 07:46 PM
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Any time I thought of a 1200K as Twelve Hundred Kilometres ... or anytime I let myself think about the entire distance I had yet to travel (Eight Hundred and Fifty Kilometres) ... I just about packed it in and quit.
Instead, I thought about that day. Today, I will be cycling 70 km to the next town where I will stop for lunch. Well, 70 km isn't bad. I had done many 70 km rides in my training. The furthest I would let myself think ahead would be ... tonight I'll be in that town, where I will stop to sleep. But I didn't dwell on that thought too long because that was still some distance off.
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09-24-13, 08:37 PM
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My latest method to help me ride through them is fairly simple - boring but simple. I taped two strips of paper on my handlebars, one on either side of the stem. The left one has the word "Elephant" written on it. The right one has the word "Temporary" on it. Both are covered in clear tape to make them waterproof.
The two words reference things said here and elsewhere numerous times.
Elephant - you eat an elephant one bite at a time - right?!?!
Temporary - It's ALL temporary, feeling good, feeling bad, the boring, the ecstasy, weather, pain. Everything is temporary.
#ShutUpLegs
It worked, too
09-24-13, 10:52 PM
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We also have crew out there cheering us on 24/7. It's not like solitary confinement on the bike. Sometimes it's actually nice to turn it all off and just ride.
09-25-13, 02:46 AM
#69
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I think powders and concentrates make sense for high performance athletes, but for mere mortals regular food works fine on bike rides.
At the 600 km brevet last weekend I rode mostly on bananas. They're fully vegan compatible, I believe and fairly easy to find in convenience stores and food shops along the way. I just bought a bunch of about 5, broke them up into pairs and stuffed those into the jersey pockets. I'd eat one every half an hour or so. Once I finished the last one, I stopped at the next convenience store and bought another bunch. I had some other food too, but bananas probably covered at least 2/3 of my calories. Just can't go wrong with them in my opinion.
At the 600 km brevet last weekend I rode mostly on bananas. They're fully vegan compatible, I believe and fairly easy to find in convenience stores and food shops along the way. I just bought a bunch of about 5, broke them up into pairs and stuffed those into the jersey pockets. I'd eat one every half an hour or so. Once I finished the last one, I stopped at the next convenience store and bought another bunch. I had some other food too, but bananas probably covered at least 2/3 of my calories. Just can't go wrong with them in my opinion.
09-25-13, 08:10 AM
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I think powders and concentrates make sense for high performance athletes, but for mere mortals regular food works fine on bike rides.
At the 600 km brevet last weekend I rode mostly on bananas. They're fully vegan compatible, I believe and fairly easy to find in convenience stores and food shops along the way. I just bought a bunch of about 5, broke them up into pairs and stuffed those into the jersey pockets. I'd eat one every half an hour or so. Once I finished the last one, I stopped at the next convenience store and bought another bunch. I had some other food too, but bananas probably covered at least 2/3 of my calories. Just can't go wrong with them in my opinion.
At the 600 km brevet last weekend I rode mostly on bananas. They're fully vegan compatible, I believe and fairly easy to find in convenience stores and food shops along the way. I just bought a bunch of about 5, broke them up into pairs and stuffed those into the jersey pockets. I'd eat one every half an hour or so. Once I finished the last one, I stopped at the next convenience store and bought another bunch. I had some other food too, but bananas probably covered at least 2/3 of my calories. Just can't go wrong with them in my opinion.
i only did 70mi last week. i wasnt feeling it. it was cold windy and a down pour. feet were soaked. this saturday is going to be beautiful and i am going for a 125miler (double metric). probably good that i disnt do 100 last weekend so i am fresh for this one
09-25-13, 08:47 AM
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I haven't ridden a RAAM, but I have ridden four 1200K randonnees, and it can be about that simple.
Any time I thought of a 1200K as Twelve Hundred Kilometres ... or anytime I let myself think about the entire distance I had yet to travel (Eight Hundred and Fifty Kilometres) ... I just about packed it in and quit.
Instead, I thought about that day. Today, I will be cycling 70 km to the next town where I will stop for lunch. Well, 70 km isn't bad. I had done many 70 km rides in my training. The furthest I would let myself think ahead would be ... tonight I'll be in that town, where I will stop to sleep. But I didn't dwell on that thought too long because that was still some distance off.
Any time I thought of a 1200K as Twelve Hundred Kilometres ... or anytime I let myself think about the entire distance I had yet to travel (Eight Hundred and Fifty Kilometres) ... I just about packed it in and quit.
Instead, I thought about that day. Today, I will be cycling 70 km to the next town where I will stop for lunch. Well, 70 km isn't bad. I had done many 70 km rides in my training. The furthest I would let myself think ahead would be ... tonight I'll be in that town, where I will stop to sleep. But I didn't dwell on that thought too long because that was still some distance off.
Last edited by mander; 09-25-13 at 08:51 AM.
09-25-13, 08:50 AM
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That kind of meditative state is exactly what I meant by "let negative feelings wash over you and disperse". It's not like an ability I have to turn off negative feelings; it's this funny state of reflectiveness where instead of sitting inside the negative feeling, you consider it as something that will pass.
09-25-13, 12:25 PM
#73
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On a related note, Rule #6.
09-25-13, 04:34 PM
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Another thought, too.
Stop looking at the bike computer when you are starting to feel "negative". I know that it's needed for intermediate distances, but if it's a long stretch, there is nothing worse than thinking 10 minutes has gone by and looking down to see you've only done one mile.
Time just does seem to defy itself in those circumstances.
Of course, noting that your speed really is 6 miles an hour -- on the flats -- might lead you to conclude that you are on the way to bonking.
Stop looking at the bike computer when you are starting to feel "negative". I know that it's needed for intermediate distances, but if it's a long stretch, there is nothing worse than thinking 10 minutes has gone by and looking down to see you've only done one mile.
Time just does seem to defy itself in those circumstances.
Of course, noting that your speed really is 6 miles an hour -- on the flats -- might lead you to conclude that you are on the way to bonking.
09-25-13, 05:44 PM
#75
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What you did on a previous weekend shouldn't really have much of an impact on the next weekend. The legs will recover soon. I find that after more challenging exercise I'm usually fine again after no more than 2-3 days of taking it easy, and I'm older than you.