agiraud

Hey guys,

Last year I did the Clearmont, FL horrible hundred. This year I intend to do so too. My question is, last year my legs gave out around mile 70. A couple riders rode by me and saw me struggling. They gave me a few pills that to be honest to you. I did not hesitate to take. They gave me several more and told me to take about every 10 miles, they mention they were "sodium/salt" pills. THey work perfectly fine. Gave me the boost I needed to finish. Any ideas, suggestions on what they were as I get ready for another century in a few weeks. Your help is much appreciated.

AG

Homeyba

They were probably something like E-caps, hammer nutrition has them. There are other brands as well. Your problem wasn't your legs. You didn't eat/drink properly.

agiraud

Can you please elaborate?

I made every stop there was and ate fig's and PB & J's sandwiches they had, gatorade, etc.

Your help it's much appreciated.

AG

mprelaw

Well, if they were salt tablets, they should have tasted like salt. Did they? Although you may not have been able to, if they were capsules instead of tablets.

I hope they didn't slip you a couple of "Eddy's secret energy pills" if you get my drift.

Homeyba

Unless he chewed them he probably wouldn't taste anything. Most of those "white" pills are electrolyte replacements (especially since that's what they told you they were) which means that if you took them and suddenly started feeling better you were not replacing your electrolytes at a proper rate. When you do long rides you are using up your bodies resources and they need to be replaced. Sometimes it's difficult to figure out what you're missing. There are lots of variables, how hot was it, how much did you eat, what did you eat, how much did you drink, what did you drink etc. Gatorade isn't the best thing out there, how much did you drink? Were you drinking water too? Fig's and PBJ's are fine if you had enough.

Ludkeh

For a relatively healthy athlete working hard, their body and muscles have about 2 hours worth of stored glycogen. Before you reach that "empty tank" point you need to being replenishing the glycogen you are burning up. The problem is that during your century ride most of your blood flow is going toward your muscles. So, if you introduce too high a concentration of calories to your stomach, your body will have a real difficult time processing it. Sometimes it results in severe gastric distress to the point where your body can't absorb any calories. Also, now blood flow is directed away from the task at hand, cycling, resulting in poorer performance. Also if you do not drink liquids that replenishment electrolytes (sweating) your performance begins to suffer. That's what the white pills were, electrolyte replacement.

First of all, before going on your first century ride you need to have worked out your nutrition plan. We,re each different so one fits all doesn't work. On your your training rides try to introduce fluids that provide electrolyte replacement and a low concentration of calories. Start with a calorie concentration of around 3-4 percent. The stomach can easily process these low concentrations. Try to remember to drink before your thirsty and a little bit every 15 minutes or so. Again you need to figure it our yourself on your training rides.

If your a heavy sweater or if it's extremely hot and humid Salt-Tabs help. If it's extremely hot, I take a Salt-Tab every hour. I do mostly Triathlons, so I work on nutrition while on my bike leg that way I have sufficient energy left for my run.

On my first Century ride years ago I have almost the identical experience that you had. Lots of rides and runs that didn't work out so well have taught me what nutrition works for my body.

Good Luck, and you'll do much better on your next Century!!

Bacciagalupe

https://science.howstuffworks.com/lif...ebo-effect.htm

Most Americans have so much salt in their diet that they don't need more, even during exercise. You also really do not sweat out a lot of electrolytes. That's mostly old wives' tales.

You only need to worry about salt intake in the rather rare circumstances that you drink immense amounts of water while exercising in hot temperatures. As long as you're eating something during the ride (and not drinking gallons of water...literally), you're getting more than enough sodium to avoid hyponatremia.

I concur that you have to do a little more nutritional planning, and figure out what works for you.

Homeyba

I get what you are saying but I can point to a boat load of articles talking about the increase in hyponatremia cases in endurance athletes (just google "hyponatremia in endurance sports"). I doubt that it's just something in his head. Dips in performance are usually not just in your head. They are usually related directly to your effort and how you are refueling and hydrating. If you are taking Aspirin, ibuprofen, and other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory agents you are compounding your hydration problem.

"The exact mechanisms are not fully understood and I won't go into the complex physiologic pathways of sodium and water balance. The simplest answer is that lost sweat (salt and water) is replaced by ingested water (no salt). This dilutes the sodium in the bloodstream, and hyponatremia results. Longer races carry a greater risk of hyponatremia because of the total amount of sweat lost. During exercise in the heat, more salt is lost in sweat per hour than is usually replaced by food and fluids, including sports drinks. Your body can tolerate a degree of imbalance for a short period of time, but it may decompensate if this continues for too long." (from SportsMed Web)

joewein

Sodium supplements on a century ride, really? I am a guy who sweats a lot and lives in a warm climate. I probably average about two century rides a month. During the summer, drinking 6-8 bidons of water (700 ml) on a day ride was quite common for me. I have never taken electrolyte supplements on any ride, just regular food.

I can see the need for extra sodium to balance out the high water intake on really long events (e.g. RAAM), but for century distances I don't really see the point unless you are drinking extreme amounts of water, in which case you would also need extreme amounts of sodium (probably more than what those capsules would give you).

My guess is the benefit was mostly psychological, i.e. a placebo effect and that the original problem was hydration or calorie intake related.

bitingduck

This thread again...

In a place like FL, it very likely was a salt issue (possibly in addition to glycogen) for the OP.

Some of us do routinely do long (5+ hour) rides in temperatures 90-100 F (occasionally hotter) and sweat out enough salt that you could extract it from our clothes and helmet straps and weigh it on a pretty cheap scale. People who ride in SoCal, the southwest, and much of the south do indeed regularly do rides in very hot weather, and if you're doing those rides you sweat a lot (not noticeable other than as salt accumulation in your helmet straps, clothes, and on your skin because it's so dry here) and need to replace both water and salt.

My only disagreement with homeyba above is that gatorade is actually pretty good-- it has decent levels of both sugar and electrolytes in a single solution. A lot of energy drinks have very little in the way of electrolytes, and it annoys me to have to carry and manage a bunch of potions and powders. The double-electrolyte gatorade is even better. They don't seem to sell it in stores, but it's got twice as much Na and K as the regular stuff for the same amount of sugar.

edit: and as an interesting reference point- while riding part of the mt baldy stage (up to icehouse canyon) to watch the ATOC a couple years ago, one of my friends got her electrolytes out of whack. As we were riding up past the team RVs in front of the race, the Garmin-Chipotle guys actually offered water and asked if we needed anything. My friend said "a little salt would be nice" and the guy just reached inside and grabbed a box of mortons salt and poured a couple teaspoons into her bottle.

mprelaw

I dunno, the ones they passed out when I was playing football in high school, you had no doubt that they were salt. That was a long time ago, though. Like 1969 long ago.

Bacciagalupe

What's happening is that doctors are becoming aware of hyponatremia; they didn't really know about it until recently. The symptoms of severe hyponatremia are very similar to those of severe dehydration, so medical staff at marathons assumed people were suffering from dehydration. The idea of water intoxication didn't even occur to them. (Note, I have no idea how they tell the difference these days....)

Hyponatremia is also very rare in cycling; it's slightly more common (but still rare) in runners. No one is quite sure why, though my guess is that cyclists are more accustomed to eating during the event than runners.

It's also highly unlikely that the OP was suffering from hyponatremia, as he was in fact consuming sodium during the event -- note the PB&J's and Gatorade.


I do not want to discount the idea that poor nutrition or another physiological factor will result in poor performance.

At the same time, a great deal of success in endurance sports is mental rather than physical. I see no reason why you can't be eating and drinking properly, not be injured, not be in a lot of pain, and really, really want to stop before an event is over. It's a two-way street.

I don't know what slowed the OP down. However, I have a very hard time imagining that popping a salt tablet had an actual physiological effect that improved his performance.

StephenH

It sounds like Endurolytes by Hammer or Sport Legs by whoever makes them. In both cases, the intent is to prevent cramps more than anything. If you weren't having cramps, my guess is that they were coincidental to the improvement in performance. Could be that stopping to rest a while helped.

Rest assured that if popping salt pills would restore our tired legs, a lot of people would use a lot more of them.

pdlamb

You're so last century, do try to keep up!

They've gussied those old (pressed) salt pills up. Now you pay twice as much for a quarter as much salt in things like Endurolyte, and the salt is encapsulated in a gel capsule. You really don't taste it, as noted, unless you break or chew the pill.

Really depends on the specifics of the support; Gatorade went through a period where it was just sugar water, because all the people who drank it because it was "cool" weren't sweating out salt. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there's 3-5 pound bags of Gatorade mix from that period stored in hundreds of ride coordinator's closets.

I have no problem at all imagining such a thing; been there, done that, got the jersery to show for it.

unterhausen

I've never been tempted to break open an enduralyte to see what it tasted like, but the powder that floats around in the bottle tastes nothing like salt. I have no idea what the mechanism is, but they work like magic for me if I start cramping. Not going to question something that works.

Homeyba

Most of those sports supplements like endurolytes, sports legs etc. are not simple salt tablets. Endurolytes have only has 400mg of sodium. Sport legs has none. I have some Mannotech supplements that don't have any either. They are full of other minerals like calcium, magnesium etc. Stuff that may or may not have been getting replenished with the OP's nutritional intake. PBj's, Figs and Gatorade may only go so far?

Homeyba

Dr's have been aware of it for a long time. I remember reading of a mtn bike racer dieing of it back in the early 90's. We can agree to disagree on this one. Having experienced it (on RAAM) myself and seen it occur to other riders I'm pretty confident that it's not that rare at all. I do agree that the OP was probably not suffering from hyponatremia though. I think it was some other nutritional issue.

bitingduck

I've also experienced it - fairly acutely in the Mojave Death Race (riding in ~114 F weather), and more mildly another time. It's also worth noting that performance can suffer without the full clinical effects of acute hyponatremia - if you're riding a long time in hot weather it does help to put in electrolytes.

Homeyba

What did you think of that race? Some friends of mine and I were planing on doing it but I got real sick in May and the whole thing kind of fell apart. I'd be interested to know what you think. It appears to be more of a runners race than a cyclist.

bitingduck

It's a lot of fun. I did it ages ago (before they stopped because a lot of the organizers were in various reserves and got shipped around the world)-- it was my first intro to ultra/relay kind of stuff, and also my first experience with Kelbaker Rd.

For any particular competitor it's not really an ultra thing-- there are a lot of legs and a lot of people per team. It's as much about logistics as it is about speed-- we had a couple people who spent a *lot* of time on logistics in advance, so we didn't have people waiting around in the heat for hours for their person to finish and tag them in, and we always had vehicles in the right places. The marine team did it hardcore style-- they just stuck everybody and all the bikes in two vans and leapfrogged. We staged people at the hotel or in RVs on the course, and had ham operators reporting status.

The race organization was really good, and both fun and safety oriented-- the only hospital casualty I can recall is that one of the EMTs suffered dehydration. I finished my leg with horrible leg cramps and replaced electrolytes and recovered pretty quickly. There were some people at work (the logistics guy) talking about doing it again since they restarted, but I haven't heard any follow up. The only bad thing I can say is that the water in the hotel tasted like it was pumped straight from the septic tank-- bring lots of bottled water if you or anybody you know does it.