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Old 01-07-14, 05:20 PM   #1
polarstar
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11 speed hub on Shimano XT disc hub

Hello all,

I am planning to build my ultimate randonneur for the next Prais-Brest-Paris.
I definitely want to go disc, that is why I am chosing a disc frame with 135mm rear spacing.
With this specs, the XT disc hubs combined with Ultegra 6800 STIs and Avid BB7 road brake and shimano rotor would be my ideal choice.

However, I couldn't find anywhere wheter I could fit the Ultegra 11 speed cassette on such a XT disc hub.
I am pretty sure I could fit an Ultegra 6703 3x10 drivetrain, but I haven't found any info on the 11 speed.

Thanks for your help
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Old 01-07-14, 07:10 PM   #2
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I think you're going to have to go aftermarket. White Industries, Chris King or DT Swiss would be my choice.
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Old 01-07-14, 08:28 PM   #3
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finally, someone who wants more gears than me....
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Old 01-07-14, 09:56 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I think you're going to have to go aftermarket. White Industries, Chris King or DT Swiss would be my choice.
Yes, boutique hubs might be the way to go. If you're wondering about the differences among these three hubs. DT Swiss are the lightest, but for what they are (technology and craftsmanship in them), they are very expensive (as much as Chris King.) Chris King are the most expensive with the most "bling" factor. C.K. is known for having a very fast engagement, but they are known not to roll as fast/smooth. Fast engagement is a top priority for technical mountain biking, but not so much for road cycling. C.K. requires a proprietary tool if you ever want to do major maintenance yourself. White Industries are the most classy-looking, although heavier than the other two hubs. Their hubs roll the smoothest, IMO. I own Chris King and White Industries hubs and would go with W.I. for road use (or DT Swiss if weight is of utmost importance.) From my research, it seems that hub weight (being right in the centered of the wheel) is not so much of an issue compared to the weight of the rims, tires, tubes, spokes or even rotors which rotate farther away from the center. A reputable wheelbuilder might be in order for this task.

By the way, in considering building the "ultimate" rando bike, I personally would go with one of the hubs above (along with a professional wheelbuilder.) I would not use Shimano XT hubs, even with 10 speeds for durability and serviceability reasons.

Who have you chosen for your frame builder?

Last edited by Chris Pringle; 01-07-14 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 01-07-14, 10:31 PM   #5
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I was trying to figure out what hub Shimano was using for the CX disc brakes, but I failed. I think they are 11 speed, so Shimano must have something available
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Old 01-07-14, 11:23 PM   #6
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I would also recommend going the boutique hub route as well. If you are building your ultimate rando bike, might as well go all in and in the grand scheme of things it does not add a lot more money.

I am with the above posters, the White Industries hubs are some of my favorite, they are pretty well proven, made by a great company who has been around for years, roll well and look great also. http://www.whiteind.com/mi6-disc-rear-hubs.html

DT or King are other great options as well. King only lets you do basic service without special tools if that bothers you. You can do some service to them though like repack the bearings in the hub shell and add lube to the ring drive system.
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Old 01-08-14, 02:11 AM   #7
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Take a look at this article by Lennard Zinn. He filed away the base of a standard 10-speed freehub body on a Shimano 29er wheelset to use the wheels on his 11-speed 'cross bike. I'm not sure whether this would work with a standard Shimano MTB hub, but the XT hub I looked at had a similar lip at the base of the body that could be filed away, but the spoke positioning is a little different than on their pre-built wheels, so may interfere with the rear derailleur.

Another option is if you want to wait until Shimano release an 11-speed compatible disc hub (this might be a while, but with the way things are going, they must do it eventually), then you can fit 10 of the 11 cogs from an 11-speed cassette onto an 10-speed hub and then still use the 11-speed shifter and derailleur, and just block the 11th position using the deraillleur limit screws. This could be an interim solution until you figure out what to do for the final wheelset.

I'd also been thinking about going 11-speed on a lightweight touring rig that I recently built up. Having the increased cable pull per shift that the Shimano 11-speed shifter uses should make the shifting more reliable than with a Shimano 10-speed setup; but as well as hub availability (this bike also uses disc brakes), the other downside would be possible problems sourcing an 11-speed chain while on the road if there was ever a problem - I'd imagine that 10-speed stuff is a lot easier to find a source for when outside of major urban areas. For you during PBP, this shouldn't be an issue since the support vehicles should have something if you need it. I therefore opted to stick with 10-speed stuff and so shifting is fine, although not flawless.
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Old 01-08-14, 03:33 AM   #8
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^^^
Unless something drastically changes by 2015, my understanding is that there are no support vehicles allowed at PBP. You could manage having a friend or relative wait for you just outside of predetermined controles ( e.g., parking lot or hotel) with whatever you need. You are right to suggest using easy to find components in case of mechanical failure (9 and 10 speed are still the most common standards.) Obviously, it is impossible to predict what could go wrong. It is sensible, however, to build an ultimate rando bike with this in mind. Having the greatest and latest technology could actually become a detriment for randonneuring.
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Old 01-08-14, 08:36 AM   #9
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Thanks for your replys!

Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I think you're going to have to go aftermarket. White Industries, Chris King or DT Swiss would be my choice.
Yes, this might be the only (expensive) way if I want to go 11speed/disc/135mm.

I see the following options:
  • White Industries CX11
  • Chris King R45 Disc
  • Velocity ATB Convertible Disc Rear Hub
I haven't found a DT Swiss hub that meets these requirements (11s/disc/135).
Of these three, I would most likely go for White over Velocity, which come at almost the same cost as of now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Pringle View Post
Who have you chosen for your frame builder?
Van Nicholas (Amazon).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_W View Post
Another option is if you want to wait until Shimano release an 11-speed compatible disc hub (this might be a while, but with the way things are going, they must do it eventually), then you can fit 10 of the 11 cogs from an 11-speed cassette onto an 10-speed hub and then still use the 11-speed shifter and derailleur, and just block the 11th position using the deraillleur limit screws. This could be an interim solution until you figure out what to do for the final wheelset.
Yes, this could be an option. Starting out with a 6800 chainset and deraillers, but having a 10s hub, cassette and chain.
My initial concern was that this setup could wear quicker, running a 10s chain on 11s chainrings.
But then I found that:
Quote:
6800 chains will have the same dimensions as the 11 speed Dura Ace 9000 chains, which are precisely 0.26mm narrower than the 10 speed variants. The intriguing part is that the inner width stays the same, which means the cogs and chain rings are the same width as before.
Might well be the way I am starting out, taking advantage of the multitude of choices for 10s disc hubs with 135mm spacing.
I just think 6800 is a step ahead mechanically and worth installing over 6700.

Last edited by polarstar; 01-08-14 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Added Velocity hub to list
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Old 01-08-14, 08:46 AM   #10
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there are bike shops at the controles on PBP. I did think to mention that you would have trouble finding parts there. I know two people that ended up buying wheels on PBP, and I broke a spoke so it was almost an option for me. But a conservative build should be fine. The shops are busy and it takes at least an hour to get a wheel.
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Old 01-08-14, 10:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
there are bike shops at the controles on PBP. I did think to mention that you would have trouble finding parts there. I know two people that ended up buying wheels on PBP, and I broke a spoke so it was almost an option for me. But a conservative build should be fine. The shops are busy and it takes at least an hour to get a wheel.
I did a lot of 1000k+ rides around Europe. I usually carry couple of chain links and a chain tool with me, but I've never had an issue with a chain.
If there is a problem with a wheel, that usually spellt trouble. I had spokes brake, but they usually fail at me most stressed place, that is on the rear hub next to the cassette. Not only would that require me to carry spokes (in differnt lenghts), but also a cassette removal tool.
So I just resorted to carry a nipple spanner, and if something went wrong, I hoped the next mechanic was not too far away. But I might consider just taping one of each spoke used to the frame for PBP and take a mini cassette removal tool to go safe, since I'll be also riding at night.

Last edited by polarstar; 01-08-14 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 01-08-14, 10:41 AM   #12
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a lot of people go with fiberfix spokes. Saves the complexity and expense of carrying a cassette lock ring tool

I would guess that DT swiss will start offering stock hubs in 11 speed shimano, they now have retrofit cassette bodies. Nice thing about DT Swiss cassette bodies is that they can be removed by hand.
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Old 01-08-14, 12:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polarstar View Post
Yes, this could be an option. Starting out with a 6800 chainset and deraillers, but having a 10s hub, cassette and chain.
My initial concern was that this setup could wear quicker, running a 10s chain on 11s chainrings.
In fact, I was suggesting using an 11-speed cassette and 11-speed chain with a 10-speed hub. I've read a couple of reports that this works fine after removing one cog from the cassette to make it the correct width for the shorter hub body (probably the 16-tooth is the least needed cog, but it depends on the cassette). The spacing would then be perfectly compatible with the 11-speed derailleur and shifter.

I agree on what others have said about DT hubs - you should be able to get a 135mm, disc, 10-speed hub from them and switch the body for the 11-speed version. But again, this is not a cheap option.
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Old 01-09-14, 08:41 AM   #14
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It was just confirmed to me by the DT Swiss customer service that I could indeed mount a DT 11s freewheel on a DT disc hub.
240 would be expensive, but I could go 350 instead. The only significant difference I can see is weight (IS: 305/244g, Centerlock: 272/233g).
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Old 01-09-14, 03:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
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It was just confirmed to me by the DT Swiss customer service that I could indeed mount a DT 11s freewheel on a DT disc hub.
240 would be expensive, but I could go 350 instead. The only significant difference I can see is weight (IS: 305/244g, Centerlock: 272/233g).
Glad to know you found a solution. It sounds like you're all set. It's a good idea to go with components found or manufactured near you.
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Old 01-10-14, 06:33 PM   #16
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I was trying to figure out what hub Shimano was using for the CX disc brakes, but I failed. I think they are 11 speed, so Shimano must have something available
FH-CX75 and HB-CX75, 28 holes only methinks.

Last edited by VFerreira; 01-10-14 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 01-11-14, 02:14 AM   #17
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FH-CX75 and HB-CX75, 28 holes only methinks.
Thanks for that, I didn't know about those options. I just checked our local supplier, and you're right about only 28-hole versions being available for both the front and rear. Retail price for the rear hub is about 110 euros / 146 Swiss Francs.
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