Ardo

Okay, so I commited to do my first 400 brevet next week. I only started randonneuring this year so it's al quite new and exciting, but also a bit frightening to be honest I did a pair of 200km brevets and a 300km last month so I hope I will be ready for this but I'm still unaware how much harder this will be in comparison with a 300? Is there any advice of what to drink and eat extra for such a distance. Now I'm running on cookies, bread, chocolate and so on.. I'd love to hear some advice and recommendations on the transition of a 300 to a 400.

Oh and how do you tell about these brevets to your surroundings? Whenever I talk about these rides they look at me like I'm crazy

skiffrun

Yep, every non-rando will absolutely know that you are crazy.

Chris Pringle

Everyone follows a different diet. It really falls to a discovery process for each one of us.

As for me, snacks, energy bars, water, liquid electrolytes (e.g., pedialyte) worked on the 200. For the 300 and on, I had to include savory meals such as pasta, roasted chicken, sandwiches right around the time of my regular meals. The Pedialyte messed up my stomach the last 100 Km of my 400, so I decided to no longer use it after reading more about it. For my 600K, I ended up using mostly water and would resort to good ole coke only when I really needed one. Supplements: magnesium/potassium pills (250 Mg each) at the start and about every 75 Km after that.

I always remind people who ask that randonneuring is not a race -- we pace ourselves. People seem to have these images of the TdF in their heads. It is indeed challenging since we ride long distances in small groups or even alone into the wee hours of the morning in remote or rural locales. Then I usually hear: "But it's so dangerous with so many crazy drivers out there?" True, but the same goes the moment one steps out the door. Besides, this is possibly the only category of cycling that takes safety really seriously: helmet, high-viz safety vests, front & rear lights, etc. (many of us go beyond that) to minimize any risk of not being seen on the road. I usually tell people some of the fascinating places we explore on bikes while randonneuring. The mental images and descriptions along with the camaraderie involved is enough to spark some genuine interest. Try it and the next time they see you they ask about those challenging but fun rides you do.

RR3

Hi Ardo

I personally find 400k more challenging than 600k because I like to limit night riding and I ride fast enough that I can always do a 600k with little night riding. A 400k almost always requires night riding. On a 200k you can ride too hard and not suffer too much of a consequence. Try to remember the pace you rode towards the end of the 300k. Use this pacing as much as you can on a 400k. Pacing is key. Just a little slower than you think is achievable. Then, try to eat regularly but not too much. Unfortunately, we all have different guts and you have to learn what works for you. For instance, Fructose sugar ferments and bloats me. Gatorade and many commercial drinks just do not work for me. I love chocolate milk while others will fart a blue moon drinking that.

joewein

I think if you can do a 300 km without much night riding (or sleep deprivation), you may find a 400 a lot harder. If on the other hand you already suffer from lack of sleep in a 300, a 400 will be similar.

All my 300s had a 22:00 start with a night ride and lack of sleep was always an issue. As it turned out, I finished my first 400 a week ago with more time spare then the fastest 300. Get plenty of sleep upfront, it made all the difference for me.

Ardo

Thanks for the great answers! Yes, the lack of sleep will definitely be a new experience. I finished the 300km in 13h so this will be the first rando where I'll probably encounter some sleep deprivation. I'm quite curious what this will do with my body/mind


I think I will keep to the diet I did on the 300 but just put some extra's in my bag so I won't run out on food. As for the drinks, I like to drink chocolate milk after a ride but while riding I always drink water. I did however drink a coke at the brevet controls but I think this isn't that good on long distances for the stomach so I might try to avoid that..

rhm

I concur with the advice to get plenty of sleep before the ride, but in my case it's just not possible. I overthink everything anyway, and whenever embarking on a new experience, such as a ride longer than anything I've ever done before, I get too excited to sleep. Last Friday, preparing for Saturday's 300k (only my second 300k) I set my alarm to wake me at 3:30 AM, but I got up at 3:00 after I'd spent over an hour just lying there, awake, waiting for the alarm to go off.

Over dinner on Friday, before my ride, I conferred with my wife about what, how much, and how often I should eat during the ride. She teaches Sports Nutrition among other things, so while perhaps she's not the ultimate authority, she sure knows more about it than I do. And she had no useful advice for me , said she'd think about it. Sunday morning, at breakfast, she came up with her prescription (how's that for timing?): take a small bite of banana every mile. How the heck am I supposed to that? I asked. Then we mused that what we really need is a handlebar-mounted banana dispenser along the lines of an old PEZ dispenser.

Chris Pringle

An idea is to make a smoothie out of several bananas (you might want to add blueberries, too), add ice and drink it over several hours while still cool. You need to drink it before it gets too warm. Rinse the bottle well as soon as you can, followed by a full wash when you get home to remove any residue. You can buy additional bananas at convenience stores along the way, but it's hit or miss as far as finding them. For longer runs, I've found I have to carry potassium/magnesium pills to avoid or minimize any cramping in warm/hot weather.

StephenH

I just eat what sounds good at the time. Early in the ride, that may be Twinkies and stuff, late in a ride, that may be Vienna sausages or Beanie Wienie.
Generally, sleep hasn't been too much of an issue during the ride, but can be AFTER the ride. If possible, arrange to have a motel room for when you finish, rather than driving back home while sleep-deprived.

pdlamb

And it might be a good idea to see if you can arrange for a late check-out. Even another hour or two can make a big difference.

unterhausen

the big deal with 400k in my experience is lights. No shorter ride will put as much stress on your lighting system as a 400k. My first 400k, we had heavy rain for 6 hours. I discovered a circuit mistake in my primary lights (got an apology from the manufacturer, thanks so much) and my backup light failed due to water intrusion. I ended up finishing with only a headlamp working.

joewein

Yes, I also often wake up before the alarm clock goes off for a big ride (brevet or personal), but that's why you can't rely on the last night alone, though the amount of sleep you get then probably makes the biggest difference.

Just as you can't sleep off a significant sleep deficit in a single night, getting enough sleep for me doesn't start the evening before the brevet. I already try to go to bed early (or sleep in in the morning) earlier in the week if possible. Every little bit helps to make the ride itself more pleasant

Yankeetowner

Wear the best bibs you can afford and use plenty of chamois cream. Signal you're going to stand and then stand every few minutes. This should help minimize pressure sores.

Null66

Nothing in the developed world mre dangerous then the TV and couch...

disclamer: I'll never do anything over 300km, if even that... But you people sure can ride!

RR3

All the suggestions to eat fruit should be carefully tested......excessive fructose will cause gas and bloating and can ferment in your gut. Sucrose breaks down into glucose and frustose....

Any Rando who finds themselves with gas, bloating, and stomach distress on longer rides should evaluate how much fructose they can tolerate.

unterhausen

that's interesting, I used to survive long rides on bananas. In fact, 60 miles was a 1 banana ride, 100 miles a 2 banana ride, &etc.
Now I eat the occasional banana when I'm feeling a little crampy, but they don't have the best effect on me otherwise

Steamer

Bananas work well for me, but since I am a delicate flower, I need a banana every 10 miles or so. I need bigger bags.

rhm

But wouldn't that depend on how fast the fructose is taken into the bloodstream and consumed in the muscles? I understand you said "excess," and if course I concede that too much is too much, and excess is always too much. But if we come anywhere near bonking, the problem is not an excess.
Of coursse I concede that my wife's suggestion, "a bite of banana every mile" may be way too much or way too little, depending on the size of the bite, so the proposition should indeed be "carefully tested." A better prescription might be a banana every (n) miles, depending on the size of both rider and banana.

RR3

Two quick points. Osmolality of a solution or I would guess slurry in your case can actually pull water from your bloodstream into your small intestine and dehydrate you. Fructose is not absorbed into the blood stream from the small intestine like longer chain sugars. I am fine with lots of lactose but need to be careful with fructose.

Your wife is correct to eat small amounts frequently. My favorite foods are Lim potatoes and Lim Rice cakes if I have time to make them. There is nothing better than popping one of those little potatos every 10-20 minutes. I will use some maltodextrin in my bottles on 400k and up but not a ton.

I honestly think Randonneurs eat too much overall, too much at controls, and the wrong foods at the wrong time with a variety of immediate and longterm consequences. I see riders stuffing their faces with sugars and carbs 10 minutes before the start, huge mistake. Slowly eating a banana each hour over the course of a 400k is a recipe for disaster as far as I am concerned. Aside from a high probablity of GI distress, electrolye imbalance would be another concern of mine. Sometimes a pint of chocolate milk and bag of salty potato chips or salted almonds is what your body needs......or even a salty hot dog loaded with nitrates (boast the nitric oxides allegedly or just drink beet juice like the shave legged riders).

Learning what you can eat, how much, and especially under what conditions is an important part of success on longer distances in my opinion. For instance, I have trouble in very hot weather and need to slow down considerably in order to keep my core temperatures down but also to keep my gut working. Too hot? Blood flow is to the skin and working muscles. Gut stops. Downhill from there. How many times have we seen/read about nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting? These are real consequences of eating too much, drinking too much, and/or going too hard in the heat given individual levels of fitness and heat tolerance. Drinking too much is especially problematic (See Waterlogged by Tim Noakes). I think many nutritional mistakes can be made up to about 150 miles or say around 10 hours riding and you can get away with it. Like the demands on lighting mentioned by Unterhausen, I would rank pacing in the heat combined with proper nutrition as the two biggest challenges from 300k to 400k.

https://www.mecfs-vic.org.au/sites/ww...ractGastro.pdf

Waterlogged: Seven clear symptoms of Exercise-Associated Hyponatremia

Sugar(s): What about Maltodextrin and Fructose? « Osmo Nutrition

How To Fix Your Gut

Ardo

Thank for all your replies so far, there are a lot of experienced riders on this forum, that's for sure!
The weather looks quite good this weekend so that's already promising.
I will keep you guys updated how it went and what I experienced but in the meantime, keep the advice coming^^

joewein

Same here, at least one banana an hour for me. As long as I don't run out of bananas or water I can always keep going. Fortunately I can find them at virtually any convenience store, so there's hardly ever a reason to carry more than one bunch (3-6).

For rides where convenience stores are sparse I carry some dried fruit (figs, mango strips) which are my secret weapon.

Ardo

Okay, so I did my attempt for my first 400km brevet yesterday and I succeeded, so happy right now! Thanks for the great advice! Eating and drinking throughout the event is indeed very important. I cycled the 400 in 14.45h but with the controlstops included I did it in 17.15h. It didn't actually feel harder than the 300 except the mental part. Now I'll take a recovery week

RR3

Wow. Congratulations!