Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-05-14, 10:42 AM   #1
johnnyboy1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Western NY
Bikes: Felt X-City2
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
first rando bike build- what do you think?

I have been car-free for 2 years but riding a IGH flat bar commuter. I want to start going longer distances and am thinking of this build:

Velo Orange Campeur frame set
Rene Herse double crank
SKF BB
Shimano 105 cassette & front derailleur
Ultegra rear derailleur
downtube set-up
wheel set TBD

Does this sound OK?
johnnyboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-14, 11:40 AM   #2
anyride
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Anchorage, AK
Bikes:
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Looks good! If you're not going to load the bike with racks and bags, take a look at the V/O Pass Hunter. That my be a bit lighter and provide a better unloaded ride. Just a guess though, I have no personal experience with either frame set. I'm also in the process of building a new rando bike. I like building bikes almost as much as I love riding them!
Enjoy,
c
anyride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-14, 12:25 PM   #3
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
my prejudice is to go for an expensive frame and cheaper components, since I do occasionally change out things like cranks/wheels. I would consider one of the Waterford contracted rando bikes over the VO
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-14, 01:03 PM   #4
Bandera 
Ding!
 
Bandera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Texas Hill Country
Bikes:
Posts: 3,960
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy1 View Post
. I want to start going longer distances and am thinking of this build:
I was in the same boat you are now a year ago.
It helped to apply Project Management methodology to go forward with a build w/o wasting a lot of $, time and ending up with a machine that did not meet my requirements.

Define what the Scope of your project is.
For example: Is it to build a light efficient machine for formal Brevets vs. a comfortable long distance light touring bike?

Then define Quality, Budget & Timeline.

Define Requirements:

Frame material & size
Wheel size, tire width
Fender clearance Y/N
Braking system
Gearing range
DT shifting is your requirement
Load carrying capability F/R
Lighting Y/N
And so on

Keep "scope creep" out, stick to budget, meet your requirements on time and you will be satisfied.

Having said that I'm modifying my "test mule" after putting a year on it and learning that my requirements needed a "Phase II" re-think.

Have fun w/ your project,

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan
Bandera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-14, 01:07 PM   #5
anyride
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Anchorage, AK
Bikes:
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
my prejudice is to go for an expensive frame and cheaper components, since I do occasionally change out things like cranks/wheels. I would consider one of the Waterford contracted rando bikes over the VO
I've got a Gunnar (built by Waterford), and would totally agree. I went out a purchased a feather weight full carbon bike last summer and ended up riding my Gunnar more. To me, nothing compares to ride of a quality steel bike.
c
anyride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-14, 07:42 PM   #6
Weatherby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Bikes: Too many
Posts: 548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Nice looking frame.

Why downtube shifters?

If the bike will be for remote heavy touring, bar-cons are still a good choice. You can shift without removing hands from bars and they are reliable and less expensive than brake/shifter combos.

Have you ridden one? Looking at the rake/trail/head angle, I wonder about the handling unloaded. With loaded panniers up front, it will be stable but I wonder otherwise. This shuold be a quick steerer at low speed. Looks llike a Miyata that I had.

If you plan to load it up, look carefully at the rear eyelets. Bring some of those clamps just in case.

Finding good quill stems is not the easiest task anymore but to be honest, I like the old headsets and stems better anyway.

Cantilever bosses, 3 water bottle mounts, rack mounts on the fork, fender mounts, long wheelbase......only $600. Not bad.
Weatherby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-14, 08:27 PM   #7
StephenH
Uber Goober
 
StephenH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dallas area, Texas
Bikes:
Posts: 11,280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Don't assume that you need a "rando" bike to ride longer distances- ride what you got, and work on the perfect bike in the meantime.
__________________
"be careful this rando stuff is addictive and dan's the 'pusher'."
StephenH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-14, 09:06 PM   #8
johnnyboy1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Western NY
Bikes: Felt X-City2
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherby View Post
Nice looking frame.

Why downtube shifters?

Have you ridden one? Looking at the rake/trail/head angle, I wonder about the handling unloaded. With loaded panniers up front, it will be stable but I wonder otherwise. This shuold be a quick steerer at low speed. Looks llike a Miyata that I had.

If you plan to load it up, look carefully at the rear eyelets. Bring some of those clamps just in case.

Finding good quill stems is not the easiest task anymore but to be honest, I like the old headsets and stems better anyway.

Cantilever bosses, 3 water bottle mounts, rack mounts on the fork, fender mounts, long wheelbase......only $600. Not bad.
I'm actually rethinking the DT. Will prob change to bar end. Also, will prob have a light load up front most of the time and rarely a heavy load.
johnnyboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-14, 10:27 PM   #9
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 20,359
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 635 Post(s)
so .. pictures or just a shopping list? "Campeur" is a touring frame in French.

"randos" are lighter .. carrying just that big Bar Bag ,

how about their Pass hunter ?

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-11-14 at 10:33 PM.
fietsbob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-14, 12:09 AM   #10
hamster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Escondido, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This config does not make much sense to me.

Does Rene Herse even make cranks? I thought they only made frames. And which double crank? 53/39? 50/34? Neither?

And downtube shifters? What is this, 1970? :facepalm:

My 2c:
* Frame matters only to the extent that it needs to have clearance for 700x28's and fenders. And even that applies only if you routinely rando in the rain and/or off pavement. I would not go chromoly unless I absolutely had to. If you weigh 300+ lbs, you might want to consider chromoly. If not, stick with aluminum till you can afford carbon or titanium.
* Get clip-on aero bars.
* Make sure that you can hang 4 bottle cages on the bike. This normally means 2 on the frame and 2 behind the seat. (The alternative is to get a Camelbak, but I think that it's better to keep heavy stuff hanging on the frame than on your body. Some people get handlebar-mounted water containers.)
* Since you're going mechanical (and Di2 seems outside your budget anyway), there's absolutely no reason not to get a triple crank.
* For LD events longer than 300k, it's highly recommended to have a dyno hub. It'll weigh a ton (ok, not a ton, but it adds about 1 lb to your total weight, vs. a standard front hub), but it is useful because you get to the point where all your electronic equipment, from Garmin to cell phone to lights, runs out of juice long before you're done. You can keep Garmin powered a bit longer with an extended battery pack, but you want a dyno hub to power your lights.

Finally, you need to spend as much time thinking about the accessories you're going to carry with you, as about the bike build. Far too often people spend hours agonizing about Shimano vs. SRAM drivetrain but only give a passing thought to the stuff that goes into the saddle bag. In randonneuring, one of the key objectives is being prepared for emergencies. Can you fix the bike if something goes wrong? Can you fix a flat? Can you fix two flats in a row? Will you be able to get home without calling your SO or a taxi if you fall off the bike at 20 mph?

Last edited by hamster; 03-12-14 at 12:38 AM.
hamster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-14, 12:15 AM   #11
johnnyboy1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Western NY
Bikes: Felt X-City2
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
so .. pictures or just a shopping list?
Will be building within the next month. Need to decide on gearing, though.
johnnyboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-14, 12:17 AM   #12
johnnyboy1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Western NY
Bikes: Felt X-City2
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamster View Post

Does Rene Herse even make cranks? I thought they only made frames. And which double crank? 53/39? 50/34? Neither?

My 2c:
* Since you're going mechanical (and Di2 seems outside your budget anyway), there's absolutely no reason not to get a triple crank.
Yes, Compass carries them. And I am leaning towards the same conclusion re: triple.
johnnyboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-14, 05:32 AM   #13
Weatherby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Bikes: Too many
Posts: 548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If the downtube front derailleur mount would have accommodated, I would have gone with a mountain double crank in the 42/28 range with an 11-28 (SRAM cogs) or 11-32 11 speed in the back. Work out the gear inches, it is a nice set-up.

beign able to fix a broken chain or a broken spoke is an essential skill on the road. Maybe a cable, especially on cantis.
Weatherby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-14, 07:27 AM   #14
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 20,359
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 635 Post(s)
Quote:
Does Rene Herse even make cranks?
the brand name is still in use , but the name is all thats left.

the new stuff looks like the old, but is not Made in France, anymore.
fietsbob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-14, 01:40 PM   #15
lonesomesteve
Senior Member
 
lonesomesteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Bikes:
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy1 View Post
I'm actually rethinking the DT. Will prob change to bar end. Also, will prob have a light load up front most of the time and rarely a heavy load.
The Campeur is a touring frame designed to carry a heavy load. I'll admit I've never ridden one, but I've ridden similar bikes (Long Haul Trucker, Riv Atlantis). Without a load, they tend to ride like a brick on wheels. A good randonneuring bike is essentially a race bike, light and lively but with the ability to handle the tires, fenders, lighting and luggage that you think you'll need. I'm not fond of VO frames (used to own a VO Rando) but of their current offerings a Pass Hunter makes the most sense for randonneuring.

I'm in the school that believes the frame is the most important piece of the puzzle. Buy the best frame you can afford, hang cheap but functional components on it and upgrade components over time as they wear out.
lonesomesteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-14, 07:34 PM   #16
EdgewaterDude
Senior Member
 
EdgewaterDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane
Posts: 350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
After a couple of years on DT shifters, I'm pining for STI again. I'm all for nostalgia, but there's a reason technology has marched on. The small upside is that DT friction shifters require almost no maintainence.
EdgewaterDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-14, 11:16 AM   #17
dcgriz
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamster View Post
My 2c:
* Frame matters only to the extent that it needs to have clearance for 700x28's and fenders. And even that applies only if you routinely rando in the rain and/or off pavement. I would not go chromoly unless I absolutely had to. If you weigh 300+ lbs, you might want to consider chromoly. If not, stick with aluminum till you can afford carbon or titanium.
*
why not steel for normal rando duty?
dcgriz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-14, 04:20 PM   #18
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdgewaterDude View Post
After a couple of years on DT shifters, I'm pining for STI again. I'm all for nostalgia, but there's a reason technology has marched on. The small upside is that DT friction shifters require almost no maintainence.
I rode my first year of rando on DT shifters. I remember dreading every shift on my first 600k because it physically hurt to shift. It's nice to be forced to move around a little, but bar end shifters meet this need very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcgriz View Post
why not steel for normal rando duty?
I prefer steel. I think rando bikes get beat up quite a bit, and I think steel works just as well or better in that environment. Not suggesting to go for a heavyweight though, light steel is the way to go
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-14, 05:44 PM   #19
DaHaMac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Thomaston, Georgia
Bikes: 2013 Raleigh Clubman, 2010 Schwinn LeTour, 2012 Raleigh Sojourn, 2011 Schwinn Voyaguer 7
Posts: 217
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have also learned to define your goal in rando and then build the rando bike to suit your goal.

I've done Brevets on a Touring bike and the weight at the end of the ride is noticeable if you want to have a fast time.
I've done Brevets on a relaxed road frame but it has limited carrying capacity and doesn't do fenders. I've done fast comfortable brevets on that bike but only in the warm and dry summer months.
I've done Brevets on a Brevet bike (Raleigh Clubman) and I am comfortable over long distances in the heat, cold, and rain. However, everytime I show up on the Brevet bike the other guys are there on their road bikes and I die trying to keep up as they accelerate up hill on bikes that are 10lbs lighter.

My current plan is to do warm 200k-300k brevets on the relaxed road frame (Schwinn Le Tour Alloy with Ouza fork) and long brevets 400k+ on the Clubman and force myself to not worry about trying to ride as fast as possible (easier said than done for me).

So, what goal do you have in mind for your Rando build? Speed over comfort or comfort and storage over speed? It is my opinion that Speed, Comfort, and Storage are the three legs of the stool you have to balance in building a Brevet bike.
DaHaMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-14, 06:08 PM   #20
downtube42
Senior Member
 
downtube42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Angelo, TX
Bikes: Volae Team, '76 Motobecane Grand Jubile
Posts: 1,712
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
FWIW

I just bought a new rando bike this past spring, after four years of randonneuring. I had a long list of requirements. When it came to making a purchase decision, one requirement overruled everything... basically my list went out the window. The one requirement: how is this going to feel after 1000km?

Fender eyelets, rack mounts, water bottle mounts, weight, clearance, yada yada. Where there's a will there's a way with all that stuff. I'm not saying ignore those, but be aware of the one requirement that will determine whether you want to ride a 2nd 600k.
downtube42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-14, 08:36 PM   #21
thebulls
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Bikes: SOMA Grand Randonneur, Gunnar Sport converted to 650B, Rivendell Rambouillet, '82 Trek 728, '84 Trek 610, '85 Trek 500, C'Dale F600, Burley Duet, Lotus Legend
Posts: 990
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy1 View Post
I have been car-free for 2 years but riding a IGH flat bar commuter. I want to start going longer distances and am thinking of this build:

Velo Orange Campeur frame set
Rene Herse double crank
SKF BB
Shimano 105 cassette & front derailleur
Ultegra rear derailleur
downtube set-up
wheel set TBD

Does this sound OK?
Camping bike is great if you're doing heavy touring. But you titled your post "first rando bike build" ... so don't buy a touring bike if you're planning to do randonneuring. The SOMA Grand Randonneur is a good choice for a budget frame ($500) designed for randonneuring. There is no point in spending boatloads of money ($1500 to $2000) buying a magnificent frame until you figure out what kind of riding you really want to do. If you later decide that randonneuring is really your thing, buy a better frame later. I've ridden 45,000 kilometers on rando events with all sorts of bikes and frames--mostly steel but the first couple years on aluminum (not recommended unless you like a jarring ride). I spent several months dithering about buying a Boulder Bikes All Road but eventually settled on the SOMA GR, partly because I've got two kids in college and I figure the GR is good enough for now. Maybe later I'll spring for something fancier. I've ridden the last seven years with down-tube shifters, which I love for their simple, direct feel. STI is just too damn fiddly and unreliable. Personally, I'd go for a triple crank unless you are absolutely confident that a double will do the job for you. It's not often that I need to drop to a 24 chainring and 32 cog, but when I do need to drop there, it's because I'm totally worn out and on a really steep pitch. How much weight do you save going from a triple to a double? A Rene Herse triple is 55 grams heavier than a double--less than two ounces. A couple of swigs of water. Deore rear derailleur to handle a 32-tooth cog. Ask Compass or whoever you buy your compact triple from what derailleur works best with it.

Nick
Downtube s
thebulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-14, 09:47 PM   #22
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
FWIW

I just bought a new rando bike this past spring, after four years of randonneuring. I had a long list of requirements. When it came to making a purchase decision, one requirement overruled everything... basically my list went out the window. The one requirement: how is this going to feel after 1000km?
I'm curious what this means to you and how you think it should inform a bike purchase decision. I happen to think that as long as a frame does not preclude you from a comfortable and powerful position, that it is suitable for randonneuring. But that's not very helpful when purchasing a bike.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-14, 05:49 AM   #23
Weatherby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Bikes: Too many
Posts: 548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Tires, saddle, and shoes are larger determinents of overall comfort on long rides then frame material or geometry assuming proper fit. For me.....getting big tires AND fenders was the key criteria for frame selection.

I recently went thru the decision process of what frame to get. Fitting fenders and wide tires was the hardest requirement to meet or maybe I did not do enough research. I ended up buying a used cycle-cross frame with a long wheelbase and wide stays that can take tires as wide as I want with fenders if needed. There really are not many off the shelf frames or suitable road bikes that meet that requirement unless one spends a lot of money. The Specialized Roubaix or Trek Domaine cannot mount 28mm tires and fenders, which render both useless to me. I wanted carbon and bought a Trek Ultimate CX frame and mounted the parts up on it. Just need to buy a cyclecomputer and a set of fenders.
Weatherby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-14, 07:19 AM   #24
Bandera 
Ding!
 
Bandera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Texas Hill Country
Bikes:
Posts: 3,960
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
W

I just bought a new rando bike this past spring, after four years of randonneuring. I had a long list of requirements. When it came to making a purchase decision, one requirement overruled everything... basically my list went out the window. The one requirement: how is this going to feel after 1000km?

Fender eyelets, rack mounts, water bottle mounts, weight, clearance, yada yada. Where there's a will there's a way with all that stuff. I'm not saying ignore those, but be aware of the one requirement that will determine whether you want to ride a 2nd 600k.
In planning a Project be clear about Scope and Primary & Secondary Requirements.

If the Scope is: "Build a long distance Rando bike for formal Brevet Events" and you end up w/ a Criterium bike you have not met your Scope and your project is a failure.
Well formulated requirements keep projects well focused to meet scope on time & on budget.

Primary requirements are "must have", secondary requirements are "nice to have".

A primary requirement based on your specific fit must not be compromised as D_42 notes above.
A secondary requirement for a blue frame can be met or not w/o affecting Scope.

Quality, Budget & Time

-Bandera
__________________
'74 Raleigh International - '77 Trek TX900FG - '92 Vitus 979 - '10 Merckx EMX-3- '11 Soma Stanyan

Last edited by Bandera; 03-18-14 at 07:55 AM.
Bandera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-14, 07:42 AM   #25
antimonysarah
Senior Member
 
antimonysarah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Medford, MA
Bikes: Nishiki Bel-Air, Brompton P6L, Seven Resolute SLX
Posts: 423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy1 View Post
I have been car-free for 2 years but riding a IGH flat bar commuter. I want to start going longer distances and am thinking of this build:

Velo Orange Campeur frame set
Rene Herse double crank
SKF BB
Shimano 105 cassette & front derailleur
Ultegra rear derailleur
downtube set-up
wheel set TBD

Does this sound OK?
It'd certainly be OK. It may or may not be what you end up wanting long term.

After my first several 200ks, I went to a hybrid 105 + Shimano mountain drivetrain (Deore Shadow XT, works with 105 10-speed bar-end shifters) to have 50/34 up front and 11-36 on the back, which is awesome (I'm not that picky about being in the "perfect" gear so the wide gaps don't bother me). Would especially be useful if you do use the "camping/touring" side of that frame.

I like my Velocity A23 rims (105 rear hub, SONdelux front).
antimonysarah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:09 AM.