jhaddad8

I'm new to distance riding and am currently preparing for a 200k brevet in the end of June. I have a 1982 Miyata 912 which I bought a few months ago off of craigslist. It is my second rode bike, although its the first one that I have ridden regularly. Anyway, I've been having a tough time going uphill. I live in the foothills of the catskills and long climbs are killer! Also, when I do long (so far 40 miles) rides, I find that the little hills are by the end are getting really tough. I've been reading about getting a double compact crankset for the front crank. I currently have the original 52x42 front crank on the bike. What size chain rings should I be looking at? Do I need to replace the entire crank set or is there a way to just change the chain ring? The freewheel is a 14-32 so I don't think I can upgrade that much more, can I? Also, anyone have advice for training for hills, besides just riding lots of them? Thanks for all the help!

krobinson103

42-32 isn't bad to climb in, but if you get a compact 50-36 You'll have plenty if climbing gears. The freewheel won't get much better. The highest mtb ring at the back I've seen is 36. The chain rings might be exchangable but you need to check if they are rivetted or bolted in. Take a picture on the drive side and post it up. You'll get more help if people can aee tge drivetrain.

Clem von Jones

There are some chinese made seven speed 11-28 freewheels out there. I wouldn't be surprised if the Miyata could take a seven speed, but you might have to put a 126mm axle in the hub and retension/recenter the wheel afterwards. Some old freewheel hubs just don't have the space for seven speed freewheels though. That and a 50-34 crankset would be a good combo. You could climb just about anything easily enough with that if you also had lightweight tires. The weight of your tires has a HUGE effect during long climbs. Try to find 25 or 28mm tires that don't weigh more than around 250 grams.

Ideally you'd replace your wheelset with 700c size wheels that have a freehub for cassettes. Even then you'd be forced to replace the axle and the modern 10 speed freehub body with a shorter 8 speed sized freehub. It's kind of involved but easy to do if you're mechanically inclined. Retensioning the rear wheel to recenter it would be the hardest part.

If the Miyata is in good rust free condition and if it fits you well it's worthwhile to upgrade and modernize the entire drive train. The Japanese frames from the 80s are often pretty sweet.

If you don't want to mess with respacing the rear wheel just get a new compact crankset, a 14-28 six speed freewheel, and lightweight tires. I doubt you can fit a much smaller ring on your current racing crankset but measure between two adjacent bolts on center to determine the spacing and check. If you can put a 36 or 38 on there that might be adequate, certainly it's a lot better than 42. Those six speed megarange mtb freewheels kind of suck in my opinion but you don't have many options with your current crankset. Or maybe you have one these relatively nice and pricey IRD freewheels? https://www.interlocracing.com/freewheelbreakdown.html The single most cost effective measure for you might be to replace your tires if they're fat and heavy. Keep an eye on tire and inner tube weight when you shop.

Dfrost 

Read the thread titled "Gearing ?"

https://www.bikeforums.net/long-dista...4-gearing.html

i don't believe the crank on your 912 can go smaller than 39t (42t may be the smallest), which wouldn't make much difference. A compact double, or a triple will make a big difference for long climbs, but the triple will require other changes as well. You'll love the triple by end of a long ride, however, if you do it right. The 912 was one of the first bikes to have a freehub, and it might be able to hold more than the original 6 speeds, so you would have smaller steps between gears, but it sounds like you've already got a good high-to-low range in your 14-32.

The wheels on it are already pretty good, as I recall from my '79 912 when it was unmodified, but it can take tires up to 28mm, and that would be a good idea for the improved comfort at their lower pressures. Compass has some that are very nice.

Compass Bicycles: Tires

Clem von Jones

Looks like a pretty nice bike. Apparently 700c wheels but no freehub. Miyata 912 Vintage Road Bicycle - Shimano 600 Arabes (06/28/2009)... It would be kind of a shame to lose the arabesque crankset. Maybe the IRD 14-34 freewheel with lightweight skinny tires is adequate? 42/34 gets you down to 32.6 gear inches. You can get up some some pretty steep hills with that. 42/32 is 34.6 gear inches which is a grind by comparison.

Weatherby

Miyata 912 was made with good tubing, I had one. It was a light touring frame in that era. It should be perfect for endurance rides. I think I had to put special adapters to mount fenders in the back. I could be mixing it up with another bike but it was a good ride for the money.

If you can get an inexpensive used triple crank, new BB, and used front derailleur. Probably $150 max. This is the best choice. If you want to totally go retro, chose half-step gearing.

I seem to remember the front derailleur is a clamp-on. You could also just replace the crank and BB with a new Mountain double crank with something like a 44-30 or 42-28 but the the 14 cog freewheel becomes a limitation but this bike and the wheelset predates Shimano's cassette hubs by probably a decade.

The cheapest option is to install a 39 tooth chainring, get fitter, and use the 39x34 on those short killer climbs.

trailmix

I too ride brevets on vintage bikes. You say the climbs are long, do you know what the grade is? I would recommend going lower than you think you will need. Nothing worse after riding 18 hours and reaching for a lower gear only to realize you don't have any more. Me, I use 32x42x52 and a 12-32 in the back. Honestly I an planning on changing the 32 to a 26 or 28 on the front.

Coluber42

A good steel vintage frame can make an awesome brevet bike. That's what mine is, too.

You've gotten lots of good suggestions for how to get lower gears by now... your lowest gear currently is probably higher than some, but lower than others and not ridiculous either way. Going lower certainly won't hurt you.

But you might also just wait and see how things go as you get stronger. Unless the climbing is making your knees hurt, you could just keep working with what you've got and keep at it.

There are some things that might make the climbs easier toward the end of your ride, though. The first might be obvious, but maybe not: How long does it take you to complete a 40-mi ride? Do you eat anything along the way? I have no idea how fast you are, but even if you are fast on the flats, any climb a person describes as "killer" is likely to reduce their average speed substantially. If a ride takes you 3-4 hours, you probably need to eat during it. If you haven't been eating or haven't been eating enough, and you feel like you consistently hit a wall after about that long, that's probably why. I bet if you have a sandwich halfway through, the climbs at the end won't be nearly as bad.
Another suggestion is to think of their being two ways to get up a climb, and to practice it both ways. The first way is to push hard and try to muscle up as fast as possible, even if that means you're sort of cooked afterward. That makes it a good workout on a shorter ride, or a good way to stick with someone whom you want to continue riding with after the climb is over, or when you're short on time, etc. Needless to say, you can only do that so many times and you'll pay for it, but it's still good for you.
The second way is to just relax, slow down, don't worry about how slow you go, and just try to get up comfortably. Even if you have to pedal really low RPM's to do that in the lowest gear you have, and you're going 3mph, that's OK. Take deep breaths, try to find a comfortable rhythm, try to keep it at a pace where you could carry on a conversation. If that means you go so slow it's tricky to stay upright, that's good for your handling skills. That's what you do if you have a long ride ahead of you and you know you need to pace yourself, or when you're tired.

Riding climbs the first way is what will make you faster; riding climbs the second way is what will give you the confidence to know you can always make it to the top eventually through quiet persistence.

One way or another though, keep at it. It will get easier as you go. Also, keep in mind that while you really can make a lot of progress in just one season, the years you spend on the bike are cumulative and you shouldn't feel frustrated if it takes you more than one season to get where you want to be.

jhaddad8

Thanks for all the information. I'll be on spring break this week, so I'll have plenty of time to read and re-read everyone's suggestions and then do the subsequent follow up research. Here's a picture of my bike and a close-up of the front crank. Feel free to criticize or recommend anything on the bike that you notice. The hilly ride that really beat me up was only 10 miles for the whole ride so I didn't ride long enough to be bonking, I was just out-matched by the hill. I think that link will show you the route info. Jack47144408's Profile

Dfrost 

Too bad that somebody already replaced the pretty arabesque crank on your 912. And 42 is as small a ring as you can use on that crank. If was me (and I'm a lot older than you, I expect), I'd go for a triple, and that's exactly what I did do with mine:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...l#post15700641

jhaddad8

I'm younger than my bike (I'm 28 years old), so I'd bet your right.

Clem von Jones

Yeah no arabesque crank = buy a new triple. There are some okay Shimano low end 52-42-30 square-taper cranksets still available out there for around $50 and you'll probably need a 113-115mm BB too (but maybe not). I would try to use the existing front dérailleur before replacing it. Sometimes their adjustable range is enough for triples. Then get a Shimano 14-28 freewheel and new 8 speed chain. With that combo you can go anywhere without being too slow.

jhaddad8

Shimano 2300 FC 2303 Road Bike Crankset 52 42 30T 175mm 7 8S Square Taper New | eBay Is this the sort of triple crank your talking about? Also, what is a 113-115mm BB?

Clem von Jones

Yeah. It's not an elegant crankset by any means because it has steel rings and some kind of anodized finish instead of being polished aluminum, but it has the kind of gear range you probably need. If you're willing to pay at least 2 or 3 times that amount you might find a nicer polished aluminum one but the virtue of the shimano rings is they have sculpted teeth and pins--Shimano's Hyperglide system--to help facilitate smooth shifting. The BB refers to a bottom bracket spindle/bearing that the cranks are attached to. You might be able to use the one currently on there but your bike was made around the same time they were changing over from the old square-taper spindle BBs to the newer square tapered spindles so I'm uncertain about it. The old spindle ends had a slightly different shape, and it's important for your new triple chain to line up with the freewheel in back so the spindle lengths come in different sizes. Your frame will be compatible with the newer system but I'm not sure your old BB can be used with a new triple. Google Sheldon Brown's square taper crank-spindle/BB reference webpage for details. A modern square taper BB for your bike is probably 68mm x 113~115mm, again refer to Sheldon's page for details.

Gnosis

The OEM crankset on my lightweight 2011 Trek 2.1 road bike was a 50/39/30 with an 11-28 cassette (cogs: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19, 21, 24, 28).

While I’d love to have a SRAM PG-1050 11-32 cassette (cogs: 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 28, 32), it omits the 14 tooth cog which I’d definitely miss during cruise speeds on flat ground. I’d also definitely miss the 11 tooth cog that the SRAM 12-32 cassette omits (cogs: 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19, 22, 25, 28, 32), as I make use of the 11 tooth cog while in my middle and large chainrings.

So I deemed it best to swap out the 30 tooth granny chainring for a 26 tooth chainring. This provides a much better steep ascent gearing however it’s still harder to climb the same steep ascents with its new lowest 26/28 gearing compared to my heavier mountain bikes which provide far lower gearing (24/34 & 22/34 gearing hence significantly greater mechanical advantage than my road bike’s lowest gearing).

Even so, the 26 tooth granny chainring was a welcomed improvement on my road bike.