RR3

I have ridden more than 10 hours in the rain with minimal impact to my leather saddle treated as indicated in an earlier post. One's girth probably plays a factor in stretch. I am more Bambi than Bull.

Hypno Toad

[QUOTE=thebulls;17052433]FWIW, this is the Long-Distance forum, defined as rides of a century or more. /QUOTE]

Well, that's embarrassing, I did not navigate to this post through the Forum navigation, it was the "what's new?" button. My bad. I was interested in learning and sharing about leather saddles since I'm new to leather bike saddles (stated above). Sorry for my dumb *** comment.

It is a slightly fortunate mistake on my part; long rainy riding was one of my misgivings about going to a Brooks. I'm not going to be the most extreme distance rider, but I do ride centuries and gravel centuries and this year's Westside Dirty Benjamin was a pouring rain. I hadn't bought my B-17 yet; however, I know a good number of riders out in the pouring rain for 10 hours riding Brooks saddles (without covers). One of the riders has 15 years on his saddle. These examples and my other (non-bike) experiences help be be confident in my saddle. Don't take my word on it, cause I don't know ****.

So, I'm going to ask, why ride leather for these conditions. If you're going to cover it, why not ride a plastic/foam saddle? I will sit in the back of the room and listen for the rest of this thread.

thebulls

[QUOTE=Hypno Toad;17053929]Sounds like this is a good forum for you, anyway, if you're riding centuries in the pouring rain.

Leather saddles have several features that make them good for long distance. First of all, having no padding, your weight is borne on the surface of the saddle so you don't sink in and have squishy stuff making your crotch go numb. The saddle has to be the right width for your sit bones, though. Second of all, the leather has a bit of give so it helps absorb some road shock. Third, once it has worn in to you, it fits you like a glove; plastic/foam saddles never wear in, so they never fit quite as nicely. And most of the time you're not riding in the rain.

Some people can get away without a saddle cover, some people can't. I don't think it has much to do with rider weight since I know a rider who doesn't seem to need a saddle cover who weighs the same as me. However, my rain coat is shorter than his, and I suspect that the rain runs off my raincoat onto the back of my saddle, while maybe with his raincoat it hangs over the back of the saddle more and helps to keep his saddle dry. The saddle cover that I use is an Aardvark--I don't notice that it's there when I am using it, it is quite thin. And it is only on there when it is raining.

Nick

RR3

Not too many plastic saddles are comfortable once you get beyond a certain distance......this comfort factor is the reason why Brooks, Ideal and Berthoud saddles are seen on bikes on long rides. Properly broken in, the saddle moulds to your butt. Not all long distance type riders use these kind of saddles but a pretty high percentage ride these three. Brooks mostly because they are cheaper and much more readily available than the other two. A "Nerdy Rando" rider who did every single 1200k ride last year sits atop a Fizik plastic saddle....go figure. The Selle Anatomic with the slit looks like it would get ruined in one downpour.

thebulls

They advertise them as having "watershed" leather. It doesn't work as well as advertised. But with a saddle cover when it's pouring rain, I've had no problems riding mine since 2007, over 42000 km, on several different bikes and SA saddles.

I'd say that about half the riders using leather saddles on DCR events are riding on SA saddles. Most of the rest are on Brooks. I've only seen a couple of Berthoud saddles, I don't think any of our regular riders are riding those. Don't think I've seen any Ideal.

The other saddle worth a look is the Rivet saddles, which are similar to Selle-Anatomica.

unterhausen

you see plenty of plastic saddles on long rides. In fact, I suspect they are more common than leather saddles. I use a fizik Aliante, which is plenty comfortable for me over longer distances. I'm still not sure about the Airone, it might work for me too, but it's definitely not quite as comfortable as an aliante.

Of course, with a plastic saddle it either works or it doesn't depending on the rider's geometry.

RR3

Not too many plastic saddles are comfortable for me once you get beyond a certain distance......

Better?

Anyway, I'll take actual statistics on the next big ride. Plastic vs. Leather vs distance. Charts. Wait. Someone already did it. 31% padded plastic and 50% traditional leather. The leather saddles get the full measure enjoying the totality of the event while the speedsters use the lighter plastic saddles.....it is right in Heine's report.

https://www.bikequarterly.com/BQPBPEquipsurvey.pdf

unterhausen

I'm glad you found something that works for you. Note that only 2 or 3 of the people sampled wanted to change their saddle. So the 41% (plus 6% other maybe, what were they using, bare seatposts?) that used plastic saddles were seemingly pretty happy with them.

However, I am not sure if half of the Americans that went to PBP in 2007 are a good sample of American randonneurs in general -- that's something like 10% of active American randonneurs. I like that article and I wish they had done the survey again.

I thought it was interesting that the thing most correlated with DNF was using a hydration pack.

Machka 

I can believe it.

Mine nearly took me out of the running during the Last Chance.

unterhausen

Nick, I just read your PBP 2011 ride report which was great. Were you riding an SA for that?

StephenH

[QUOTE=Hypno Toad;17053929]I'm wearing bike shorts with a foam pad anyway, so there's a nice layer of plastic between me and the leather regardless, it's not like I'm doing Nude Randonneuring or something. So an extra layer of plastic may help the seat, but my butt won't know the difference.

thebulls

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yes, I was on an SA and have been since some time in 2007. The last non-leather saddle that I rode was a Specialized (can't remember the model; started with an "A") that I rode in 2006 for the SR series and then for BMB. It was fine for distances up to 600km but by the third day it was just agony. The SA saddles are comfortable enough that after PBP, once I'd had a bit of a rest in my hotel room I rode back to the Gymnasium to watch more riders coming in. No saddle issues at all, either in 2007 or 2011.

Nick

RR3

Lack of comfort is not a reason to abandon nor did I wish to convey that message and according to Jan's report only 4 riders quit due to seat pain. There can be bigger (or shorter) problems then not finishing a ride. Obviously anyone completing a Grand Randonnee has figured out what works and it takes work to figure saddles out but the fact remains that traditional leather saddles predominate. The extra 300 grams or so is nothing to sneeze at but then again neither is perineum pain.

mander

Now that the original topic has been sufficiently flogged, what bad thing happens when you use a hydration pack? I must say, I have coveted them on hot days when i have to stop a lot to fill up.

thebulls

I used a hydration pack in my first year of randonneuring. I quit using it for three reasons. First, on a hot summer day it makes my back hot, which is the last thing I need. Maybe a newer, fancier hydration pack would help with that, but I figure even the best ventilated hydration pack is still going to retain more heat than having nothing on my back. Second, it's more weight on my sit-bones and hands. I figure that the bicycle should be the thing bearing weight, not me! Third, I found that I absent-mindedly drink too much with a hydration pack--so the time I saved in not having to refill water bottles as often is wasted in more-frequent visits to the bushes. All of my randonneuring bikes have always had three water-bottle holders, which is generally enough even in the hottest weather and the longest stretches without resupply. On a few occasions with super-long stretches without resupply, I have bought a fourth or even fifth bottle of water that I carry in my saddlebag or handlebar bag.

That said, I know plenty of people who use and like their hydration packs!

Nick
Nick

RR3

Jan Heine's PBP survey of rider's equipment choices showed the largest factor associated with dropping out of the ride? A hydration bag. Those that wore them tend to drop out.I suspect overhydration is a big or bigger problem in cooler climates like in France. Overhydrate and your electrolytes get messed up and you get digestion problems and then you start to see Martians. Hyponatremia....read up on it.

unterhausen

I use a hydration pack in the summer. I don't have problem with overheating, the ventilation seems to work very well. I probably wouldn't wear one at PBP, didn't last time. My only problem is that it can cause discomfort on my shoulders. Mine has one of the RUSA safety triangles permanently installed

StephenH

I'll give you my theory. Fat people sweat more, up to twice or three times as much. If you sweat more, you're more likely to use a hydration pack. And if you're fat, you're more likely to DNF on a hilly ride. So I suspect it is not cause-and-effect so much as two different effects from another cause.

Perhaps related to that- if you ride a lot in a hot climate, you're more likely to use a hydration pack, I would bet. And you're that much less acclimated to a cold wet climate. So the people most acclimated to the PBP climate would be the ones that don't normally use hydration packs. But there again, it's not cause and effect, it's two different effects.

Perhaps related to that last item- one of our local riders just did the Central California 1200k. One thing that amazed her was that people there seemed to think nothing of riding 50 or 60 miles with just two bottles. Meanwhile, she uses half the water I do, or less- I'm going through a 100 oz Camelbak + 2 bottles in 30 miles in the heat out here.

It would be interesting to run a "hot" 1200k. Maybe not fun, but interesting. I suspect, you'd find the opposite correlation between Camelbaks and DNF's in that case.

unterhausen

the first people that I knew that wore hydration packs were skinny guys. The reason I went out and bought one was the I ran out of water a couple of times on 600k's. That is unpleasant. But as usual, it takes a "you are an idiot" moment before I start using something like that. It happened on a super-hot 1200k when I had to stop every 15 miles to find water. The people I was riding with had hydration packs and would stop with me because they were being nice. I have gone 100 miles without needing to stop for water, that's a real luxury in my book.

2manybikes

How did it do that?

Machka 

My shoulders, which are not very strong to begin with began to ache ... the pain gradually got worse, and worse, and worse over the kilometres ... and then all of a sudden my neck, shoulders, chest, and back cramped with a feeling like I was having a heart attack + my arms went numb. I was struggling to breathe ... struggling to move at all ... fighting nausea and pain ... thinking that we'd have to seek medical attention out in the middle of nowhere in Colorado or Kansas or wherever we were at that time of night.

Rowan helped me off the bicycle and out of my camelbak (I couldn't move my arms or shoulders ... I could hardly feel my arms), and I started to feel better almost immediately. He strapped my camelbak onto his rack while I had something to drink and stretched a bit, and I started to feel like I could try riding again. And we finished the event.

I've never worn a camelbak since.