unterhausen

I'm thinking that if I had a 600k, nobody would ride it, but I agree that once I have a 400k route the 600k pretty much falls into place. Perms don't count for anything that requires an SR, so there is no advantage over riding a 400k and 200k on consecutive days, and you can dnf one of those rides while having the other one count. I've dnf'ed two 600k's where I rode 300k and 400k of them, it does seem like a lot of work for a dnf. Steamer and I have talked about one of the Super 600k's, but that's a lot of work and a whole new learning process

In the last couple of years, there have been a few people in this area that joined RUSA and then quit due to the travel requirements. Seems to me that if there were enough rides in this area to keep their interest in an R12, that maybe they would have stayed with it.

StephenH

No, I'm pretty sure that was for RUSA credit, period, so if you wanted to ride every weekend and get credit you needed 52 perms (minus however many brevets you have). Of course, the people doing that would try to make the Houston and Austin brevets as well, so that required maybe only 30 perms.

skiffrun

The "no duplicating" permanent rule allowed one to count a particular route in a given calendar year for R-streak purposes, but not for RUSA distance award purposes. (For example, see RUSA #1589 , year 2005.)

skiffrun

I second the "here's an idea for you to implement throng that disappears" comment.

I used to be a veep & then prez (& just generally involved with running) a local running club -- 2 runnings, intentional -- LOL. Anyway, there were always people that would suggest new ideas, good to great ideas; however, when we pointed out that the active leadership was already committing as much time as we could, but that if the suggesting person would spearhead the new idea (or find someone that would), we would take it on. Poof!

Same way with an informal cycling group I used to lead.
[Full disclosure: I was only the leader because the standing ride had originally been my solo Saturday ride & I knew the roads & usually knew how to short the ride if someone had mechanicals or health issues.]
"Hey, here's an idea," someone (usually somewhat new to the group) would enthusiastically suggest, "you [meaning me] ought to do this!"

I almost always replied, paraphrasing here, "that's a good idea; if you figure out how to do that, I bet people would do it."
Poof! (Or worse: "Grouse, gripe, etc.," because they wanted me to do the work.)

However, there were at least 3 or 4 times when the idea matched an idea I had been mulling over:
1. An Irregular Kerr Lake Loop.
2. Let's do some new roads or maybe that Roxboro ride [I] once mentioned.
3. The Kerr Lake & Roxboro rides were fun, let's do another "new roads" ride.
4. How about a "destination ride" for the solstice?


Thermionic seems to have more tolerance for the "Poof" throng than I do.

Oh, and it always dangerous when I start reminiscing.

unterhausen

so the "qualifying" distance goes away in 2007. I thought they changed the rules about permanents more recently than that

I don't mind people making suggestions, it's just they have to realize it's probably not going to happen unless it's really easy or they do it themselves. And even then, there is some chance it's not going to happen. I find it interesting how many people have become RBA's that have more recent RUSA numbers than I do. I have thought about it, but I'm not sure I want to go through that sort of work for the low turnout I see in some regions.

Actually, if someone really wants to make a suggestion to RUSA, they need to let a board member know. Their emails are on the website

The suggestions I really don't like are the ones that basically say, "RUSA should do this thing that is totally different than what they do now" I happen to like what they do now. People that have these ideas should start their own organization.

skiffrun

I think the "qualifying" distance went away AFTER 2008. (For example, see RUSA #2942 .)

I'm speculating that the Texans had sufficient Permanents by 2007 so that they could do a different Perm each weekend during the calendar year without replication (when there wasn't a convenient brevet). That's consistent with what DD, aka, "Dan the Pusher," indicated to me some time ago. Stephen sees / rides with DD frequently, so maybe his "memory" will be better on that front.

unterhausen

12000k is a lot of unique perms. I may eventually give up my aversion to driving to the start of one of my perms. Of course, if I do that I am not really in my local area either, which makes route design and scouting much harder. I have a couple of routes I haven't finished because scouting is a lot of trouble for me right now

seajaye

coming from an under-30 novice randonneur, who is friends with a lot of "serious" cyclists about my age, it's easy to see that randonneuring is a very niche discipline. most of my friends are racing cyclocross right now, talking about file tread and watts. i only have a few friends that would be willing to come along on a brevet, and it's not for the fact that they can't handle it, but more so they just don't find the idea of it very appealing.

i have convinced a few friends to try some, but they fall in two groups: newbie cyclists that are literally up for anything because they want to take in as much as they can, and ultra-types who do ironmans or long distance MTB races and who like the idea of a looong day (or days) on the bike. anyone anywhere in between may have already found their discipline and have decided that's what they want to focus on. to each their own?

skiffrun

There are a LOT of Perms in Texas.

Also, DD puts on a lot of brevets in a calendar year. I haven't carefully checked, but I suspect that one could often get in 3, and sometimes 4, Series in a single year just on Lone Star brevets. Add in Austin & Houston, which are not all that far from Dallas / Ft. Worth, and some of those Texans snap up 5 (maybe more) Series a year. I should also mention the other Texas Regions, but the names escape me at this moment.
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Eric, you could think about "directional" perms: like spokes of a wheel emanating from Happy Valley in all directions. That's what Grover Everett did in south-central Illinois to get 20K plus kms in 2011-12. Also check out the Des Moines, Iowa area (where the first Perm Coordinator lived); my recollection is that there are spokes emanating from a more-or-less central location.

Also, I know it snows there in central PA, so things don't translate directly from central NC to Happy Valley, but you probably don't need a bajillion perms to stay fresh on each route. I find that the same route changes significantly during the year -- I refer to the scenic views (and sometimes the "scenic views"). E.g., late winter - barren fields, barren trees; spring - cotton fields are planted, new Spring green leaves, llamas, horses, etc. grazing in the fields; summer - animals lazing in the fields, deep green trees; fall - cotton, etc. harvesting, tired green leaves, animals moving about again; early winter - it is not quite the same as late winter. Oh, and in the summer the dawgs are hiding from the heat; whereas in the winter, the dawgs are sure to come out to play. And the dawgs change every couple years (either the owners move, or something else happens).

My friend Dean has ridden his "Get 'er Dunn" Pop about 250 times -- he frequently finds things that he had not previously noticed -- sometimes it is truly NEW, other times he likely just hadn't noticed the thing. Additionally, since Mick has now completed "Get 'er Dunn" about 150 times, mostly with Dean, I think they chat most of the ride -- and plan for the food stop(s).

Also think about who is likely to ride a given Perm. ... ... I suggest that the answer is: friends. ... ... So the key thing becomes, how can you befriend a crop of riders. People will try randonneuring, but they typically only stick with it IF they find / make friends with one or two or three other key riders. Of course, there are the completely NUTZ among us -- those that are isolated from other randonneurs, but continue to rando several times a year.
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I was supposed to work on the reversed cue sheet for my "Road to Hicksboro" Perm this morning (I need a Perm that does NOT finish into the setting sun during the winter months), but I got distracted doing the above. Oh, well.

skiffrun

I know a few people that have said something like the following:

"I knew my racing days were over when as I dived into the corner and I thought about my kids and realized I had important responsibilities. After that moment, I couldn't bring myself to do what I needed to do if I wanted to stay competitive."
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"Under 30" typically like the racing for the thrill and the competition. But somewhere along the way, most pick up responsibilities and the risks associated with aggressive racing lose their appeal.

Why is the demographic mix of randonneurs skewed so far toward older ages? In part because of the above. But also 200 km rides: "it's not the distance, it's the time." Can a parent in their 30's or 40's take that much time away from family every month or every week? Probably not, if they want to stay with the same family.

StephenH

I didn't know when they changed the once-a-year rule, but knew it was before I got involved, as I have just heard about it.
I don't really count series myself, so it doesn't much matter to me whether I do a perm or a brevet. But some other people do, and for that, it's important to keep track of how many of each you have, as they don't carry over to the next year. I don't remember what the maximum number of series a year is, but I'm pretty sure Gary has gotten 7 in a year, maybe more. That would be Dallas, Houston, Austin, and in the last year or two, Midland. There's some rides in Brownsville and the Hell Week ones, but local riders don't normally do them. Mississippi is close enough to drive to for a weekend, for that matter.

seajaye

most of my under-30 friends don't want to make the time commitment either, even with minimal responsibilities. the same friends that book hotel rooms the night before a faraway cyclocross race, only to ride for 45 minutes and then hang out and drink beer for 4 hours when all is said and done...

delcrossv

Different folks, different priorities. Who are you going to BS with after a rando?