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  1. #1
    ufa
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    New frame+fork - which groupset

    Hello,
    I have just acquired a new steel frame+fork and I am undecided in which groupset to use? Tiagra or 105? Is Tiagra good enough for endurance?
    The bike, when built, will be used to long distance brevet.
    Other groupset suggestions are much welcomed
    Thx all

  2. #2
    Donnie Jonhson
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    Hi ufa,

    Either Tiagra or 105 would work just fine. I would consider the 105 gear over the Tiagra, it is very good value for money, reasonable cheap (in comparison to higher group sets) and in my experience very reliable. This is not to say that the Tiagra gear would not be as reliable, it's probably just as reliable as 105 but slightly heavier and a little cheaper.

    Personally, I mix and match the drive train, e.g. if you live in a hilly area you could use 105 or Tiagra shifters and with whatever crankset you prefer, (road/mtn triple/or compact double), and a mountain cassette and rear derailleur. On my touring bike I use Triple Ultegra Shifters, a mountain style crank with 22 36 48 teeth and an XT rear derailleur with 11-34 9 speed cassette. The system works fabulously, huge range of gears for riding with heavy loads on steep long hills. My audax bike ha a similar range of gears however I hardly need to use the lower end and occasionally reach the top end. If you wanted to use 10 speed integrated shifters like on Tiagra or 105 and a Shimano mountain rear drive line, you need a 9 speed rear derailleur. However if you don't live in such a hilly area and don't need such a large range of gears a straight groupset will work just fine.

    If you choose to mix and match you will need to do a little homework to ensure your choice of components are compatible. See the bike mechanics forum, there is a wealth of knowledge there.

    Hope this helps,

    Donnie

  3. #3
    ufa
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donnie Johnson View Post
    Hi ufa,

    Either Tiagra or 105 would work just fine. I would consider the 105 gear over the Tiagra, it is very good value for money, reasonable cheap (in comparison to higher group sets) and in my experience very reliable. This is not to say that the Tiagra gear would not be as reliable, it's probably just as reliable as 105 but slightly heavier and a little cheaper.

    Personally, I mix and match the drive train, e.g. if you live in a hilly area you could use 105 or Tiagra shifters and with whatever crankset you prefer, (road/mtn triple/or compact double), and a mountain cassette and rear derailleur. On my touring bike I use Triple Ultegra Shifters, a mountain style crank with 22 36 48 teeth and an XT rear derailleur with 11-34 9 speed cassette. The system works fabulously, huge range of gears for riding with heavy loads on steep long hills. My audax bike ha a similar range of gears however I hardly need to use the lower end and occasionally reach the top end. If you wanted to use 10 speed integrated shifters like on Tiagra or 105 and a Shimano mountain rear drive line, you need a 9 speed rear derailleur. However if you don't live in such a hilly area and don't need such a large range of gears a straight groupset will work just fine.

    If you choose to mix and match you will need to do a little homework to ensure your choice of components are compatible. See the bike mechanics forum, there is a wealth of knowledge there.

    Hope this helps,

    Donnie
    Thank you Donnie. I will look in that forum.
    I have bought a Surly Pacer frame+fork and will probably take the "mix and match" approach
    Best regards

  4. #4
    Senior Member bikemig's Avatar
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    Also you will want to think about what sort of gearing you will need and particularly whether you want a triple given that you plan on doing long distance brevets. The shimano triples are not the best, IMHO, in terms of gearing (it comes stock with a 50/39/30). You might want to look at the sugino xd600 which comes stock with a 46/36/26. I prefer the sugino 110/74 bcd over the shimano bcd 130/74. YMMV.

    If you go with a triple, you may want to consider bar end shifters. Some love 'em; others hate 'em. I love them with a triple. Again YMMV.

    But you will want to decide whether you want a triple before springing for a group for the bike.

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    ufa
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
    Also you will want to think about what sort of gearing you will need and particularly whether you want a triple given that you plan on doing long distance brevets. The shimano triples are not the best, IMHO, in terms of gearing (it comes stock with a 50/39/30). You might want to look at the sugino xd600 which comes stock with a 46/36/26. I prefer the sugino 110/74 bcd over the shimano bcd 130/74. YMMV.

    If you go with a triple, you may want to consider bar end shifters. Some love 'em; others hate 'em. I love them with a triple. Again YMMV.

    But you will want to decide whether you want a triple before springing for a group for the bike.
    Hello bikemig,
    I am not sure if I want a triple. Won't a compact double be enough?
    Just for the record, I have already done a 300k brevet in my SS. I must confess that I ended a little too tired

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    Senior Member bikemig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ufa View Post
    Hello bikemig,
    I am not sure if I want a triple. Won't a compact double be enough?
    Just for the record, I have already done a 300k brevet in my SS. I must confess that I ended a little too tired
    Sure, everyone has a different view. A SS could be an issue, though, if you do a long ride with lots of steep grades; even the pros like gears when climbing steep mountains, . The reason I like a triple is that I prefer not running a wide range on the back but that doesn't matter so much if running 9, 10, or 11 on the back. Still a triple gives you a better bail out gear than a compact and you do plan on being out in the middle of nowhere with no support on a bloody hard ride, right?

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    You need to decide if you want a triple, and the cassette ratios you want, as this will have a big effect on groupset choice, add to that, the freehubs you have as this will determine what cassettes you can and can't run.

    Mixing and matching can be done, but not with Tiagra(current 4600) and 105 (current 5800) as suggested as they are different speed groupsets, and have very little compatibility. If you do want to mix and match, you need to look at older generations like 5700.

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    ufa
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
    ... and you do plan on being out in the middle of nowhere with no support on a bloody hard ride, right?
    I've been there before and that's why I am entering the gears world (although I am a minimalist guy, some gears won't hurt )

  9. #9
    ufa
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimc101 View Post
    You need to decide if you want a triple, and the cassette ratios you want, as this will have a big effect on groupset choice, add to that, the freehubs you have as this will determine what cassettes you can and can't run.

    Mixing and matching can be done, but not with Tiagra(current 4600) and 105 (current 5800) as suggested as they are different speed groupsets, and have very little compatibility. If you do want to mix and match, you need to look at older generations like 5700.
    Thank you Jim,
    Besides Tiagra and 105, do you recommend something for the "mix and match" in LD?

  10. #10
    Senior Member daf1009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ufa View Post
    Thank you Jim,
    Besides Tiagra and 105, do you recommend something for the "mix and match" in LD?
    UFA...you mention the Shimano works...how about SRAM? I have used the SRAM Apex group (very affordable) on many metric centuries...and full centuries. I am not a brevet rider (yet)...but...have had great success with this group. The group got its start with the "Wi-Fli" cassette and double chain ring set up...giving a very wide range of gears with just a double ring. You might want to consider it.
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    ufa
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    Quote Originally Posted by daf1009 View Post
    UFA...you mention the Shimano works...how about SRAM? I have used the SRAM Apex group (very affordable) on many metric centuries...and full centuries. I am not a brevet rider (yet)...but...have had great success with this group. The group got its start with the "Wi-Fli" cassette and double chain ring set up...giving a very wide range of gears with just a double ring. You might want to consider it.
    Thank you daf, I will check it out

  12. #12
    Bridge Burner RollCNY's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, I believe the Pacer uses standard reach brakes (47-57mm), so if you buy a full group, the normal Tiagra or 105 brakes won't reach the rim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man in Black
    Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

  13. #13
    Senior Member joewein's Avatar
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    The current Tiagra is the previous 105 and the current Sora is the previous Tiagra. They're all pretty decent. The difference is mostly clever marketing. Any of them will be reliable if properly maintained and any can fail if not (e.g. old cables).

    Of course Ultegra is nicer and lighter, but there's probably little benefit for people who are not racing.

    Compact double vs. Triple is a personal choice and I'm firmly in the Triple camp. On a long ride with 10+ percent climbs, nothing will outdo low gears for me, except even lower ones! They allow you to keep your cadence high even if your speed drops. I believe that's one reason why I never cramp. They also give you closer spaced gears, either across the cassette or between chain wheels, which I really like. Triples (or lack thereof) are one reason why I would not consider SRAM (except for their cassettes) any more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joewein View Post
    Of course Ultegra is nicer and lighter, but there's probably little benefit for people who are not racing.
    The difference in the ergonomics of the grip is noticeable between 5700(105) and 6700(Ultegra) and even more when moving up to 6800, not tried 5800 yet, so don't know about that one. 6800 is the nicest feel by a long way, also, the front shifting has improved dramatically with 11 speed and the new front derailleur design.

    The downside with 11 speed is no triples any more, but you do get a 11-32 option out the box, rather than having to play around with B screws and mixing and matching with SRAM cassettes as you do with 10 speed Shimano.

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    ufa
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    Thank you all for the help.
    I went Tiagra compact double. Let's see how it goes.
    Keep riding!
    ufa

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