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How to juggle cycling and gymming?

Old 12-24-14, 01:09 AM
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How to juggle cycling and gymming?

Hello everybody,

I have been hooked onto cycling since about 7 months now. My main aim of getting into cycling is to indulge in Randonneuring

I recently switched over to a hybrid from an MTB since I thought that the hybrid would help me best achieve my goal of participating in a brevet.

Since I did not know whom to turn to for this question, I thought I would best register on this forum where I have routinely lurked and ask here.

I am a regular gym goer. Not the sculpted body types, but just to stay physically fit. Like I mentioned above my sole aim is to participate in a Brevet since I want to check how strong I am mentally and physically. How should I juggle my gym routine with cycling/preparing for a brevet?

Should I altogether give up gymming - this I would do only grudgingly since I have started to like the idea of going to a gym.

Or should gymming and cycling be on an alternate basis?

Or is there any third alternative??

Also is there any scientific way of preparing for a brevet? Or just keep hitting it out for long distances every once in a week?

I would be really grateful for suggestions
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Old 12-24-14, 04:55 AM
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Don't give up the gym work. It's something you enjoy and it has health benefits. In addition mixing the two different exercises on alternate days will allow for recovery and help you to avoid mental staleness. For instance you might visit the gym on Monday, Wednesday and Friday while riding your bike on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and/or Sunday. Cycling generally requires a lot of time so pushing as much of it as possible to the weekend better fits most people's personal schedules. If your goal is to complete a brevet then you should try to complete one long ride each week, probably on the weekend if that's when you have the most free time. For the weekly long ride start with a distance you can complete and then gradually increase that distance from week to week until you can ride at least 50-60 miles.

Some people take one rest day each week but since you are "cross training" you may not need one. Pay attention to be sure your body is recovering properly. If you do decide to take a rest day I think a short, easy ride is better than doing nothing, unless it's raining.
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Old 12-24-14, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by pacificwaters
... .

Or is there any third alternative??

... .
Yes.
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Old 12-24-14, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by skiffrun
Yes.
And what would that be?

@MilesDealer..

Thanks for the tip. I am thinking along the same lines but not sure about myself and hence the question.
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Old 12-24-14, 10:19 AM
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It really depends on how much you're riding and what your goals are. Personally, I like to do a lot of climbing, so I try to keep my body weight low. I do upper body lifting once or twice a week and it's nothing intense- just enough to try to keep my bone density high. I was always a hard gainer anyway, plus I ride too much to really gain any mass from it. If you're more into flat riding, a little extra mass won't hurt.

When it comes to legs I have a more seasonal approach. I hardly lift at all during the summer, but I'll do once or twice a week during the winter. When I hit legs I hit them hard, so it takes 2 days to recover. I'd rather spend that time riding during the summer. Winter is a time to sort of recharge the batteries and lifting is a part of that for me.
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Old 12-24-14, 10:22 AM
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Fast time trial to and from the gym.
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Old 12-24-14, 10:45 AM
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I ride before the gym. Simple. In the winter that's usually a roller ride. I try not to reduce my bike volume to accommodate gym work. Instead I'll ride at recovery or endurance intensity if my legs are tired. I hit the gym twice a week. In summer I can ride to and from the gym, doing sprints on the way back.
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Old 12-24-14, 01:45 PM
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in general, weight lifting does little to improve cycling performance. Now, if you have a deficit of core strength gym work will improve your comfort, which probably will improve speed.

Having said that, I don't think that you really need specialized cycling training for long distance. There are various training plans out there that don't take too much time, and they will be much better for you than just going out riding
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Old 12-24-14, 05:33 PM
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A couple of people I know go to a gym two or three times a week and then do long rides on weekends. Some of that gym work will involve spin classes.

It's pretty common for triathletes to have those issues as the swim training is basically gym work. You just set your priorities and go for it.
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Old 12-24-14, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by pacificwaters
<snip>
Also is there any scientific way of preparing for a brevet? Or just keep hitting it out for long distances every once in a week?

I would be really grateful for suggestions
I suppose one could say so. I don't know how much science is in it. My observation is that up to about a 200k if you have been riding that far total per week for a few weeks, you can finish OK. If you want to have a fast ride, then double that distance per week. And you want to be riding similar terrain to the brevet terrain. For your long ride, no need to go over 80 miles in preparation. For both long ride and weekly mileage, increase them no more than 10% per week.

For longer brevets, no need to go over 150-200 miles/week or a weekly ride longer than 60-80 miles. Each brevet distance will prepare you for the next.

So that kind of tells you how to balance your riding and gymming. Starting a few months before your first brevet, adjust your training to make the above possible.
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Old 12-25-14, 11:30 PM
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Well I am into gymming just to stay fit. Not the ones to hit the gym obsessively on a muscle building regimen. Muscle tone is more than enough. Had the belief that this would also help improve my muscle endurance levels other than just the basic stamina to go long distances.

Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I suppose one could say so. I don't know how much science is in it. My observation is that up to about a 200k if you have been riding that far total per week for a few weeks, you can finish OK. If you want to have a fast ride, then double that distance per week. And you want to be riding similar terrain to the brevet terrain. For your long ride, no need to go over 80 miles in preparation. For both long ride and weekly mileage, increase them no more than 10% per week.

For longer brevets, no need to go over 150-200 miles/week or a weekly ride longer than 60-80 miles. Each brevet distance will prepare you for the next.

So that kind of tells you how to balance your riding and gymming. Starting a few months before your first brevet, adjust your training to make the above possible.
I shall keep your tip for long distance cycling in mind @Carbonfiberboy.

As regards what I exactly meant by a scientific way, well when I was practicing for participating in a Marathon, there was this routine my friend had suggested to me
Day 1: Sprints of 400 m, rest, sprints etc
Day 2: Rest or hit the gym
Day 3: Medium paced running for 800 m and 1600
Day 4: Rest or gym
Day 5: Long distance running at slow pace
Day 6: Rest or gym
Day 7: Rest

Next week would be paces of different distances

The entire schedule was spread over 3 months to build up endurance and stamina.

So was just wondering if there are plans like this for Brevet preparations also or does one just go flat out for long ditances?
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Old 12-26-14, 12:28 AM
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It really depends on your goals. I know some people just train to finish brevets. That's fine, you don't have to do much training then. If you want to train scientifically, there are plenty of people that will help you do that. In my mind, there is very little difference in training to race a bicycle and training for randonneuring at a high level of performance. When I was racing, it wasn't that big of a deal for me to ride 100 miles. The thing that riding long rides will help you do is sort out your equipment and fit issues. You could do a similar workout schedule to what you have outlined: 2x20 minute intervals separated by 10 minute cool down twice a week, a 60+ mile long ride once a week, gym 3 days a week, and one rest day.
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Old 12-26-14, 04:55 AM
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I come from a running background and your friend's marathon training looks more like how one would prepare for a 5k race. I will say that training methods should be in some way based on what you enjoy doing. Consistency is the most important factor in training and enjoying your training is more likely to keep you consistent. So personally I would try to ride a hilly 30 miles on my short days. And I would try to ride these fairly hard, particularly since I'd be interspersing rest days.
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Old 12-26-14, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pacificwaters
Well I am into gymming just to stay fit. Not the ones to hit the gym obsessively on a muscle building regimen. Muscle tone is more than enough. Had the belief that this would also help improve my muscle endurance levels other than just the basic stamina to go long distances.



I shall keep your tip for long distance cycling in mind @Carbonfiberboy.

As regards what I exactly meant by a scientific way, well when I was practicing for participating in a Marathon, there was this routine my friend had suggested to me
Day 1: Sprints of 400 m, rest, sprints etc
Day 2: Rest or hit the gym
Day 3: Medium paced running for 800 m and 1600
Day 4: Rest or gym
Day 5: Long distance running at slow pace
Day 6: Rest or gym
Day 7: Rest

Next week would be paces of different distances

The entire schedule was spread over 3 months to build up endurance and stamina.

So was just wondering if there are plans like this for Brevet preparations also or does one just go flat out for long ditances?
But is it scientific? A lot of training stuff one sees and hears sounds scientific and is really complicated, but has it been proven to be better than some alternative in double-blind crossover studies? For the most part, I doubt it. The only "scientific" training method I know of is discussed in the link in this thread starter:
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...hile-back.html
And that is how the top marathoners do train.

Effective weight lifting for cycling is discussed in this thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...-training.html
Scientific studies on this subject suggest that heavy half squats, 4 X 4RM, with the optional addition of single leg presses 4 X 4RM, twice a week or even once a week, will produce the desired result. Not too much else. These studies were done on accomplished athletes, some elite, so it's probably advisable for most folks to start with 3 X 12RM and work their way down in reps as their conditioning comes along. 12RM means you could not do a 13th rep. When you can do another rep, you add weight for the next set. Most weights studies were done with no reduction in endurance training time, the weights being added in since the total weight workout volume is so low.
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Old 12-26-14, 03:12 PM
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I would look at the time crunched cyclist by Carmichael A person that is in good shape doesn't have to ride that much to ride long distances
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Old 12-29-14, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MilesDealer
I come from a running background and your friend's marathon training looks more like how one would prepare for a 5k race. I will say that training methods should be in some way based on what you enjoy doing. Consistency is the most important factor in training and enjoying your training is more likely to keep you consistent. So personally I would try to ride a hilly 30 miles on my short days. And I would try to ride these fairly hard, particularly since I'd be interspersing rest days.
Yeah you are right about it being the beginner's training. I had just included this as an example of what I meant by just as there is a training schedule to get you through marathons (and which builds up as weeks add up), is there anything similar for long distance cycling/Brevets. Or is it that you just keep cycling and cycling?

Talking about consistency I do agree that consistent logging of cycling miles helps! But its just that I am unsure about the fact that do I just keep cycling to improving my paces?

@Carbonfiberboy ...

Thanks for that link. Honestly speaking I have still to listen/view that link but I did check out the thread and the discussions that accompanied it. These however put me in further doubt, especially the terms - EM, SS, Tempo Zone 1, 2, etc. Could you just lead me to where I can understand this lingo! Kindly consider me as at best an amateur !!
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Old 12-29-14, 10:21 AM
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get the book I mentioned above or whichever one of Friel's books looks most applicable to you. Maybe "the cyclist's training bible"

You can do your research on the web, but it will take longer and you could easily end up with misconceptions. We have a reasonably active training and nutrition forum here
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Old 12-29-14, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
get the book I mentioned above or whichever one of Friel's books looks most applicable to you. Maybe "the cyclist's training bible"

You can do your research on the web, but it will take longer and you could easily end up with misconceptions. We have a reasonably active training and nutrition forum here
Yup..a book is very much in the offing (new year gift to self), once I am billed for the current credit card cycle

Prior to the book you recommended I was thinking about "The Complete Book of Long-Distance Cycling: Build the Strength, Skills, and Confidence to Ride as Far as You Want" - Edmund Burke.

However after the one you suggested, I am checking its reviews on Amazon.

Also in the process of checking the reviews for "The Cyclist's Training Bible". So far am loving it. Might be inclined to buy this one! Hope it would be the best choice
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Old 12-30-14, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
But is it scientific? A lot of training stuff one sees and hears sounds scientific and is really complicated, but has it been proven to be better than some alternative in double-blind crossover studies? For the most part, I doubt it. The only "scientific" training method I know of is discussed in the link in this thread starter:
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...hile-back.html
And that is how the top marathoners do train.

Effective weight lifting for cycling is discussed in this thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/training-n...-training.html
Scientific studies on this subject suggest that heavy half squats, 4 X 4RM, with the optional addition of single leg presses 4 X 4RM, twice a week or even once a week, will produce the desired result. Not too much else. These studies were done on accomplished athletes, some elite, so it's probably advisable for most folks to start with 3 X 12RM and work their way down in reps as their conditioning comes along. 12RM means you could not do a 13th rep. When you can do another rep, you add weight for the next set. Most weights studies were done with no reduction in endurance training time, the weights being added in since the total weight workout volume is so low.
There is a surprising amount of "training stuff" out there that is not only not backed by studies, but is often, in fact, provably bad advice. For example, in running, there is a universally known so-called 10% rule (do not progress faster than 10%/week), and it was only until 2007 or so (to my knowledge) that someone tried to do a study (obviously not a double-blind study, it can't be done, but a study nonetheless) and utterly failed to demonstrate its efficacy. There are studies demonstrating that running more than 3x/week is detrimental in terms of injury risk. That has not bothered anyone at the slightest: schedules that have you run 4x and 5x/week are widely available.

The schedule above attempts to balance two incompatible objectives. One is the ability to handle the beating to your joints and muscles that long-distance running is all about. To achieve this, there's no valid reason to run more than 2x/week. The other is your VO2max and your LT. There is scientific evidence that VO2max gains are maximized running 5x/week. Not sure about LT but it could work in a similar fashion. 99% of schedules you find online won't make this fine distinction.

There's little valid reason to include lower-body weights in a schedule that has you run or bike 2x or more per week. All scientific evidence we have says that, at best, it won't do you any good, at worst, it may actually hamper your progression. You focus on one or the other. If you do lower-body weights, ride 1x/week. If you ride, don't do weights.

There's no interaction between riding and core or upper-body weights, you are free to combine them at will. (Subject to caveat that you need enough protein in your diet to support what you're doing. If you schedule a 2 hour ride and a round of bench presses on the same day, you probably want at least an extra serving of meat, or a serving of protein powder, later the same day.)

Last edited by hamster; 12-30-14 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 12-30-14, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by hamster
<snip>
There's little valid reason to include lower-body weights in a schedule that has you run or bike 2x or more per week. All scientific evidence we have says that, at best, it won't do you any good, at worst, it may actually hamper your progression. You focus on one or the other. If you do lower-body weights, ride 1x/week. If you ride, don't do weights.

There's no interaction between riding and core or upper-body weights, you are free to combine them at will. (Subject to caveat that you need enough protein in your diet to support what you're doing. If you schedule a 2 hour ride and a round of bench presses on the same day, you probably want at least an extra serving of meat, or a serving of protein powder, later the same day.)
That's what I used to think. However there have recently been better studies with more a more focused approach:

https://www.hokksund-rehab.no/filarki...ES_CYCLING.pdf
In-season strength maintenance training increases well-trained cycl... - PubMed - NCBI

Sorry, no PDF for the second link.
These studies are extremely difficult to do because what competitor wants their training schedule interrupted for the benefit of some researchers?
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Old 12-30-14, 12:06 PM
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I have thought I should do some lower body weight lifting because my leg strength has really gone down from the days when I was a much faster rider. I doubt I am going to get there very quickly just by riding my bike. granted, I got to those levels of strength by riding my bike, so maybe I'm wrong
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