Double sessions: Weights & intervals for the over 55s
Top trackies typically do 2 or 3 days per week, where they do squats / gym work in the morning, and then go to the track in the afternoon. I.e. they do "double sessions".
Are there many trackies - over 50 / 55 years who also do "double sessions"? Can I ask: what have you learnt & what are your experiences (particuarly with respect to workloads, and ability to recover). Insight apprectiated !! |
I did some double sessions prepping for track Nats last year. I flipped the morning weights to the afternoon in most cases; after a weight session I didn't have enough in my legs to hit some of my numbers. Caveat is that I was doing a fair bit of 2k work in there. I can see where for pure sprint work you could stay with the former program.
Definitely want to refuel between sessions, and it helps if you can stay off the legs. How many of these you could do a week would be an individual response thing, there's of course a tipping point were your recovery is too slow and you make yourself slower. |
Originally Posted by Racer Ex
(Post 18533727)
I did some double sessions prepping for track Nats last year. I flipped the morning weights to the afternoon in most cases; after a weight session I didn't have enough in my legs to hit some of my numbers. Caveat is that I was doing a fair bit of 2k work in there. I can see where for pure sprint work you could stay with the former program.
Definitely want to refuel between sessions, and it helps if you can stay off the legs. How many of these you could do a week would be an individual response thing, there's of course a tipping point were your recovery is too slow and you make yourself slower. The thing that bothers me somewhat, is having suffficient recovery. Something I found out about last year the hard way !! So, you reckon I should be fine with "double sessions" with, say, doing 30 sec / 1 min repeats afterwards ? (so long as the volumes were progressively increased, to assist with general "weights / cycling" adaption ?? Cheers |
I would think that would be fine. Thing with that type of work is when you stay in the anaerobic buckets you are going to get a benefit in either order. The track work after weights might actually improve form...less thrash.
If you stop progressing or maintaining on whatever you choose to do first after a rest period then you're likely shorting recovery. |
Thanks Racer Ex
|
I had a very interesting conversation, with one of the New Zealand track sprinters - about weights & how they train for power. Thought you might be interested. I was lucky enough to race against three of the Olympic squad, and the current 10,000 WR holder, at an Open meeting at Wanganui last weekend (not far from Cambridge). These guys could F.L.Y. I started with one of them in a handicap race - and was totally, totally outclassed haha.
I asked afterwards, what they did in the gym, to develop so much power. He (the guy I started with) told me they did plenty of full squats for strength - but the real intense efforts went into "stair jumping" and "Power cleans". Leg press for occassional variety, but two leg stair jumping - not single, cos of injury risk - and lots and lots of Power Cleans. Interesting eh .. |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by DHRB45
(Post 18560024)
I had a very interesting conversation, with one of the New Zealand track sprinters - about weights & how they train for power. Thought you might be interested. I was lucky enough to race against three of the Olympic squad, and the current 10,000 WR holder, at an Open meeting at Wanganui last weekend (not far from Cambridge). These guys could F.L.Y. I started with one of them in a handicap race - and was totally, totally outclassed haha.
I asked afterwards, what they did in the gym, to develop so much power. He (the guy I started with) told me they did plenty of full squats for strength - but the real intense efforts went into "stair jumping" and "Power cleans". Leg press for occassional variety, but two leg stair jumping - not single, cos of injury risk - and lots and lots of Power Cleans. Interesting eh .. http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=506361 |
That is a way cool photo! What does it take, to have the power to "kick-in" at around 160 rpm. Heck, I cant even make 150 tops !!
|
Originally Posted by Racer Ex
(Post 18559625)
I would think that would be fine. Thing with that type of work is when you stay in the anaerobic buckets you are going to get a benefit in either order. The track work after weights might actually improve form...less thrash.
If you stop progressing or maintaining on whatever you choose to do first after a rest period then you're likely shorting recovery. It has introduced an unfamiliar sense of fatigue - but it seems to be going perfectly well. I took your point on ensuring that I "refueled" in between, and have been having rehydration / carbs powder in my water bottle rather than water only, like I would usually do. And a very easy, L1 spinning day afterwards. Thanks for the tips: Appreciated ! |
Hope it works/helps! Usually takes my legs a couple of days to recover from a big session, at some point I can tell the fatigue isn't diminishing or the soreness is hanging around; I'll double up the days off so I go back to 100%. I've found (for both myself and my clients) that "full rest" works better than doing a recovery ride then jumping back in when you're doing weight/strength work.
Fair bit different than the "duration" driven soreness you get from long miles. |
Originally Posted by Racer Ex
(Post 18564000)
Fast explosive. The squats help turn the gear from low RPM, the jumps are what kill when you're pedaling mid to high RPM. The morphology is interesting on these guys, at the elite world level they are all big dudes. Below that you get a real variety. My team sprint teammate from a few years ago had won more than 5 world sprint titles, and he was my size. All fast twitch and could make power at 160 rpm which let him run a small gear. He could get to top speed really quickly. Pic of him on my wheel at Nats.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=506361 |
thanks for the insight: appreciated
|
Originally Posted by Racer Ex
(Post 18564000)
Fast explosive. The squats help turn the gear from low RPM, the jumps are what kill when you're pedaling mid to high RPM. The morphology is interesting on these guys, at the elite world level they are all big dudes. Below that you get a real variety.
Sorry, OT. It's just another reminder that I'm way too heavy for this sport even when I'm not fat. Should have taken up rowing... |
Originally Posted by chasm54
(Post 18587653)
"Big dudes" is a matter of perspective, I guess.
Big dude: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...96_306x404.jpg Small dude: http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncsta....jpg?ve=1&tl=1 Dude: https://media.giphy.com/media/ZMYR6gnhm0v6g/giphy.gif |
great photos :) Years ago, I could squat 180/90 kgs (as a junior). I read that Sir Chris maxed out at around 160 kg. However, with thighs like that - I very much think more likely that he maxes out at well over 200 kgs. Your thoughts ??
|
Originally Posted by DHRB45
(Post 18592196)
great photos :) Years ago, I could squat 180/90 kgs (as a junior). I read that Sir Chris maxed out at around 160 kg. However, with thighs like that - I very much think more likely that he maxes out at well over 200 kgs. Your thoughts ??
|
Originally Posted by DHRB45
(Post 18592196)
great photos :) Years ago, I could squat 180/90 kgs (as a junior). I read that Sir Chris maxed out at around 160 kg. However, with thighs like that - I very much think more likely that he maxes out at well over 200 kgs. Your thoughts ??
|
Originally Posted by chasm54
(Post 18604125)
Didn't have to think, googled it. He used to squat 240kg. At one point, I seem to recall, he maxed out the leg press machine in the BC gym and had one of his teammates sit on top of the weight stack to give himself a challenge.
It's nothing but impressive watching those guys sprint. The thing that always struck me is you can HEAR things wind up and groan. That said most of the guys are still on "old school" bottom brackets. |
Originally Posted by chasm54
(Post 18604125)
Didn't have to think, googled it. He used to squat 240kg. At one point, I seem to recall, he maxed out the leg press machine in the BC gym and had one of his teammates sit on top of the weight stack to give himself a challenge.
|
Originally Posted by Racer Ex
(Post 18604425)
I have women in the gym come over and challenge me to leg presses.
It's nothing but impressive watching those guys sprint. The thing that always struck me is you can HEAR things wind up and groan. That said most of the guys are still on "old school" bottom brackets. |
re the pic, it looks like you're about to get eaten up!
|
This off-season I am adding in double sessions of box jumps followed by on-bike work, twice a week. I figure the on-bike workouts will just follow wherever I am in the cycle rather than being focused exclusively on intensity all winter (which I think would be counterproductive).
I'm 2 weeks into this regimen and similar to what DHRB45 said, it creates a unique fatigue sensation in the legs, different from regular heavy legs after a workout. |
I'm happy this thread was revived is only to see Ex's dude post!
Since I will be incorporating weight training in my base training this year, I will be following along. |
Ah, I was victimized by drive-by necromancy.
|
Originally Posted by globecanvas
(Post 19066249)
Ah, I was victimized by drive-by necromancy.
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:43 AM. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.