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  1. #2651
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    AzT, that's a serious looking setup! Are those the same chain rings I saw wobbling around on Bradley Wiggins' bike in the final stage of the the Paris-Nice this year?
    Yep. I also noticed he was using them for the TT, and saw several guys on them in the road stages.

    I wanted to ask you - do you use spray on contact cement to adhere your number to your jersey?
    Yes. I started when everyone on my team was doing it at one of our practice races. The stuff most folks use is 3M "77". It not only eliminates flapping numbers, it also makes it one heck of a lot easier to pin the number. Without glue, you are trying to get it so it is pulled reasonably flat, which involves some amount of guesswork. With glue, you choose the right position with your jersey spread out on the car seat, spray the number, stick it on, and put the pins in as a backup, and because most organizers insist they be used. Be sure to pin it so the head of the safety pin is into the wind, and not cupping air!

    As far as positions go, you see all sorts of things. If you position high, you can feel it under your arm, at least until it softens up. Pin it low, and you can't access your pocket. Towards the middle is more aero than the side, but that only matters if you aren't glued. And most importantly, you don't want to cover any team or sponsor names! I've evolved towards low and to the side, unless I need the pockets, in which case I move it up a bit. The glue is great. The numbers come off easily, and don't seem to leave residue when the jersey is washed. And, as I learned from Hermes (who no doubt positions his pins in the aero position), you pin through the number itself, not through the punched holes! Of course the absolute best way would be to have the pins inside the jersey.

    When there is a bike number required, that is usually heavy paper/cardboard that folds so there is a number on each side. I glue the sides together, making it nice and stiff, then attach it to my saddle/post. With my current saddle position not leaving any rails behind the saddle, last event I glued the cardboard around the seat post, then used the twist ties for safety. It was actually pretty aero that way, since it formed a foil shape. Some people use tape around the seatpost, and some have permanent solutions, like plastic that attaches to the bike, with the numbers glued to that.

    I'm providing detail, because this is the kind of stuff that can be a big distraction, and thus a stress factor, until you've done it a bunch. Having to handle the numbers is one reason early packet pickup is nice: one less thing to worry about pre-race!
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  2. #2652
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    It's the power meter that matters. That's a Quarq. I have one on my race bike.
    I love my Quarq. If I switch bikes for any significant time, I move the Quarq crankset over. I just had another good support experience with Quarq. I changed batteries for the new season, and soon after got a low battery warning. Put another new one in, got a warning again right away, and started having major data dropouts. Thought I was eating batteries, so I called them. She had me bend the contacts under the battery out a bit, and that solved the problem. Doh! Funny thing was that my HR strap gave out the same weekend, which was the Tucson stage race. Was starting to think my Garmin was the culprit, but bending the leads on the Quarq and replacing the strap has me once again saturated with data.

    The SRAM acquisition doesn't seem to have destroyed the Quarq culture.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  3. #2653
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Spray adhesive makes a heck of a mess on your kit. I don't use it. RacerEx does, so I'd take that as a much better endorsement than my opinion. However, I have no problem affixing a number properly for every race. No flapping, nice and tight. It takes 8 pins and a steering wheel.

    Stretch your jersey over the steering wheel of your vehicle. Rotate it so the side where the number goes is in front of you. This example will be for a number placement on the left side. Reverse the left and right for a right side placement.

    If your jersey is a raglan cut, as most are, it will have a side seam and set of seams for the shoulder. Position the bottom of the number above the side seam and the bottom left corner of the number to the right of the corner seam. Pin that corner. Do NOT use the pin holes. Push the pin through the number from the top, through the jersey, and back up through the number. Close the pin. Stretch the number and pin the top left corner. Now you should have two corners pinned. Stretch the number and pin the bottom right corner, then the top right. Now all four corners are pinned. Next, add four more pins, one along each side of the number, in between the two respective corner pins. When you are done you should have 8 pins, one at each corner, and one on each side. Once you put the jersey on, the number will flatten out.

    CDR has a nice number pinning video on his blog www.sprinterdellacasa.com. If I had a video camera I'd make one.

  4. #2654
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    I love my Quarq. If I switch bikes for any significant time, I move the Quarq crankset over. I just had another good support experience with Quarq. I changed batteries for the new season, and soon after got a low battery warning.
    Do you use a Garmin? How did that warning show up, as a pop-up window? I have an 800, and the power meter battery meter is showing 50%. I have yet to see a warning. Thanks in advance.

  5. #2655
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Spray adhesive makes a heck of a mess on your kit. I don't use it. RacerEx does, so I'd take that as a much better endorsement than my opinion.
    On my TT stuff. Not on my regular kit.

  6. #2656
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    I have a medium sized plastic Igloo cooler that I bring to races to hold pre, in and post race beverages. I use the cooler top as the support when pinning numbers. The hard top of the cooler deflects the pin and keeps the jersey flat.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  7. #2657
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Do you use a Garmin? How did that warning show up, as a pop-up window? I have an 800, and the power meter battery meter is showing 50%. I have yet to see a warning. Thanks in advance.
    Yes, I have a 500, and yes, it's a pop-up you have to clear. It doesn't keep nagging you, though - seems to only appear once/day.

    I never got a warning before I decided to change batteries to avoid running low out of town. Apparently the swap changed things enough that I wasn't getting good contact, so I ended up at Radio Shack in Tucson getting new batteries for the Quarq AND the HR strap. But the HR strap turned out to be toast. We took it apart there to see what battery it needed, and the plastic back would no longer hold the screws, and even getting it back together with the new battery didn't bring it back to life. The latest design continues the strap underneath the monitor, clearly to prevent sweat, lotion and such from getting onto the unit. It looked like 'gunk' was what did mine in, corroding the plastic.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  8. #2658
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    Hi,

    As we've already established, I'm pretty old school and cheap in my own way. I've seen the skinsuits of people who use spray-on adhesive regularly and the Lycra doesn't look too good on some of them. I don't want to accelerate the death of my skinsuits due to spray-on adhesive. Of course, YMMV, depending on how you apply the adhesive and how you wash your kit. BTW, according to the USAC rule book (page 55):

    "Hip numbers shall be attached securely at least at the four corners with pins and no accessory or hair may obstruct a clear view of the number (riders with misplaced, obscured or unreadable numbers will not be placed)."

    So even if you use spray adhesive you have to also use four pins. (Another BTW, at least two women were penalized at the Valley of the Sun Stage Race TT because their hair obstructed their numbers.)

    As an engineer, I use six (6) pins: 1 pin at each corner of the number and then 1 pin in the middle of the forward edge and 1 pin in the middle of the bottom edge. The pins on the forward and bottom edges help prevent air from getting under the number and leaving the top and back edges open allows any air that gets under the number to escape easily. This method has NOT been tested in a wind tunnel.

    I've used a standard sized bed pillow to help with putting on my number properly -- especially with a skinsuit. However, after a while you get the hang of it and for jerseys I just lay it out in the back hatch area of my Prius. My best cycling buddy's wife will also pin my number on for me if she is there. She does a great job.

    Regarding number placement, when you wear a size small jersey you don't have very many options with regulation-size numbers. I have to align the back edge with the top of the pockets and hope that the number doesn't impinge on my arm pits. When I have to wear two numbers they cover most of my back.

    Still waiting for the Garmin pedal power meters to arrive in stores.
    Thanks.
    Cleave
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  9. #2659
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    I carry a spare Quarq battery in the car. I have lost my power meter at a race due to batteries twice. Once with a PT and the other with Quarq.

    I use 3m 77 to secure my number (only on skin suits) along with the 4 requisite pins required by regulation. And my skin suits do not seem to last that long so I seem to replace them each year.

    A few years ago, I was warming up at a race and one of my teammates (the same age) came over and told me my number was pinned on wrong since I used the holes in the number. He said it was sooooooo Cat 5. He repinned it without using the holes.
    Last edited by Hermes; 03-13-12 at 05:07 PM.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  10. #2660
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Thanks, AZT.

  11. #2661
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Thanks, everyone.

    If you look at my photo, you can see the leading edge of the number catching air. That's probably why I was so slow...

    Seriously, my number was a mess, because I had to repin it. In a hurry! Yes, AzT, added stress. I wear "SMALL", so yes, I had a bit of a pickle trying to figure out where to put the thing so I could 1) use my left arm, and 2) use my pockets. Less than neat was the solution. I did pin through the holes, but another racer told me about pinning through the material itself. I like the "pin head into the wind" approach, and I'll do that. I'll try the adhesive, too, on an old jersey to see what happens with residue.

    Once again - thank you guys!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  12. #2662
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Weekend race report: Won the battle, lost the war against a tough field that included 3 world champs and 5 nat'l sleeves. Going into the road race we were 1st, 5th (me), and 7th on GC.

    I got 5th in the TT after being stung 3 times by bees. Last one went in my helmet vent and stung me on the head with 4 miles to go. Otherwise I worked for our guys.

    In the RR we didn't account for one guy sitting 6th on GC thanks to a time bonus he got in the crit and let him get a little too much time in the break he was in; he won the sprint for the RR win on Sunday and with the gap and 30 second 1st place bonus we took ourselves off the podium. Otherwise the plan worked to perfection, taking a field of 76 riders down to around 10-12 and getting a break up the road to with one of our guys in it to protect our GC guy; he was 9 seconds up but was losing sprints to the guy in 2nd. Break would snatch up the time bonuses and we would win.

    I made 3 out of 4 laps, made them chase long and hard, and protected our GC leader from the nasty crosswind while my teammates were guttering the field. We ended up 2nd and 3rd. Oh well.

    One nice thing was a real TT break through by one of my teammates I've been coaching. Best TT ever and finished only 12 seconds behind me.

    Legs are getting there, would have been no problem protecting 5th or moving up a spot or two, but I wanted the team on the top step. .

  13. #2663
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Great work, Ex.

  14. #2664
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Very nice result RacerEx.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  15. #2665
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Nice to hear how a great team does things, Ex. Thanks for sharing that.

    Tried out the Rotor Q-Rings in the Underground Crit tonight. They felt totally normal, it was nice to have a quiet drive-train thanks to straight rings, and I had a few PRs (assuming the calibration of the PM isn't off):

    1' 437w
    2' 421w
    5' 374w
    6' 372w

    I think the numbers sound about right, based on how hard we were cranking it for awhile, and when compared to numbers from the same ride in late January, when I did a 421w lap. Teammate pulled the first lap tonight, I pulled the second, and then another mate attacked as three of us blocked. The pack strung out then, chasing the break down, which eventually got me dropped. I was on and off the rest of the way, per coaches directions, and the necessities of surviving the night. The crit petered out when a guys chain-stay broke, causing him to crash. Kinda hard not to, huh? I have a rack that works for broken bikes, and drove him home since he rode to the ride, using towels to keep his blood off my car seat. I have limits, after all.

    It was fun, I'm on a wonderful team, and I just love racing my bike. Life is beautiful. I'll commute the next three days, get a combination base/climbing ride in Saturday with a friend, then either more base Sunday or a hammer-fest group ride. There is a major crit in Tucson Saturday (Old Pueblo Grand Prix), but I'm staying in town so I can get some home stuff done.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  16. #2666
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    That was a great study in strategy, Ex! I know you wanted the team on the podium, but still, that was a terrific result. It really is a chess game, isn't?
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  17. #2667
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    AzT - wow. You said pretty much everything in that last paragraph!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  18. #2668
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Nice result Ex. I did Madera in 2009 and 2010.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  19. #2669
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Those are some big watt numbers AZTR. Keep up the great work.

    I successfully completed all 4 of my Z4 9-10 min hill repeats last night on a beautiful clear March day. (I left my TT skirt at home and rode the road bike) At times I had to back off the efforts to keep from reaching Z5 HR. My power average for each of the intervals was L5+. Riding the 12 miles back home as a WD towards the setting sun was very nice and enjoyable. Got home right at dark and my wife had made roast beef and mashed potatoes with gravy. After sitting a little after eating I went to the basement pain cave and did my scheduled 1.25 hrs of core/stability/resistance. A very good day indeed!
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  20. #2670
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Other than spin on Monday (followed by an hour of strength training) I haven't done anything. I officially have the flu - or a very bad cold. Yuck...
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  21. #2671
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    Those are some big watt numbers AZTR. Keep up the great work.
    Thanks Jet. As I keep moving up the learning and training curves, it's clear I need to focus on my efficiency; my speed skills and slipperiness. You really fast guys do it so effortlessly compared to those of us that are the fodder you feed on. Fortunately, I have a 50+ teammate in that category, and I'm trying to ride more like he does. I've noticed a huge difference in his position between when he is chilling in the pack, and when he is cranking up the speed. His drops position is really low and aero, and when I get as low as I can trying to close a gap, I feel the difference it makes. I need to make that position more natural, and use it more, to convert the watts to mph.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  22. #2672
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Thanks Jet. As I keep moving up the learning and training curves, it's clear I need to focus on my efficiency; my speed skills and slipperiness. You really fast guys do it so effortlessly compared to those of us that are the fodder you feed on. Fortunately, I have a 50+ teammate in that category, and I'm trying to ride more like he does. I've noticed a huge difference in his position between when he is chilling in the pack, and when he is cranking up the speed. His drops position is really low and aero, and when I get as low as I can trying to close a gap, I feel the difference it makes. I need to make that position more natural, and use it more, to convert the watts to mph.
    Riding the fixe this winter has been a good learning experience. One of the lessons I learned was my position in the drops had room for improvement. When I would drop my shoulders from my usual position the cadence would pick up 3 or 4 rpms at the same effort. Once back on the road bike I found that when I dropped my shoulders while riding at Z3 the power output could drop by 20 or more watts. Watching my shadow when I drop the shoulders, my back becomes flatter and I can flex the elbows more. I do work on riding in the drops on regular training rides or while on the rollers so it is more comfortable for sustained periods. While riding the rollers I will rotate from tops, drops and hoods every 10' as well as to throw some OTS and no handed riding in.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  23. #2673
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    It's amazing what small changes in position can do. I play around a lot with my position on long solo base rides, in places where there aren't a lot of variables. Moving from the drops to a hand position on the tops right at the stem generates an immediate cadence/speed boost. Going from there to the IAB bumps it up some more, but not as much as just getting your arms in so they help keep the wind off yourt chest instead of increasing your surface area.

    Here is a video tutorial on shoulder position:

    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  24. #2674
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  25. #2675
    Don't mince words Red Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    I can't believe someone would risk a perfectly good camera to get a shot of this:

    Ha-ha! Awesome! Look at you hammin' it up!

    I call sandbagging on your race report, based on this pic. You're obviously off the front, pedaling for your life, hoping the youngin's won't bridge up to you.

    WTG!
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