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  1. #3076
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    I will relate my heart rate to heat and cold but try not to give others HR advice. I'm 59 and don't have the same rate as most of the young dudes. My usual maximum is 173-4 bpm. As most, my HR zones are based on the max and is somewhat confirmed using power testing. When the temps and humidity are high I've seen HR's in the high 180's and I could continue racing as if it was Z4/5. I think the very high rate is due to cooling and effort combined. The same effect happens when it is cold, below 40 degrees. I can be doing 10 min hill intervals @ Z4 HR effort, L4 power and not see the HR beyond high Z3. A few winters ago I was slated to do a two hr ride with a 30 min WU then the rest at a solid Z3. I was absolutely killing my self trying to maintain the Z3 HR and at 1:15 into the ride I had to stop. It was 30 degrees, I was a sweaty mess, all blown up and still over an hr from home. That was one of my cycling low points.

    Just my $.02, your results may vary.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  2. #3077
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    I'm guessing there is a story waiting to be told. Cow cross the road?
    Was in a race this AM. About 1/2 way into a 25 mile RR I'm riding very well near the front. On a flat section some guy right ahead of me accidentally put his front skewer onto someone's Zipp rear wheel. When a spoke hit my arm I knew this wasn't going to end well. With racers on either side my option was to go straight towards the tumbling rider. I did go down softly as I rode over his bike. I got right up and was able to grab my rolling bottle. Hopped on the bike cyclo-cross style thinking I might be able to catch the field. Oh well, I only have to replace one tire. I had a second Conti Sprinter at home and the wheel and tire are spending a few days at the LBS.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  3. #3078
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Nice job, Jet..
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  4. #3079
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    My HR is much higher on hot days and IMO, one has to derate the engine and not put out as much power. Drinking a lot of fluid may or may help that much and too much water is bad. A great way to adapt to higher temperatures is riding the trainer. Internal body temperatures rise and adaptation occurs.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  5. #3080
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    I think the fact that it was the first hot day so far clearly was a factor for me. As we move into summer, I'll adapt to it once again. I've done better in 115* than I did yesterday. I don't believe I over-drank; I was just surprised at how much I had to drink to stay on the right side of the hydration curve, and what I had to do to stay cool enough. I never went over the hydration edge, but this morning was ~4 pounds down from yesterday morning, after eating a lot and continuing to rehydrate. A 2% loss isn't unusual for these parts. A big factor was getting dropped, and spending so much extra time out there after the temp climbed. We started at 8:50, and I was still riding at high noon. I had planned for around three hours. It was also at a higher elevation, and I believe that compounded the effects of the heat. A 90 degree day here in the valley is by no means extreme, and I believe the official temp there probably only registered low nineties. But it felt much harsher than that. No doubt the climbing had something to do with that, pushing the HR and body temp up.

    I would have loved to keep the power down in the first big climb (about 40 minutes in), but it was clear staying with the group was paramount. Next year, I'll either actually train for the road race, or just skip it to focus more on the crit. Long climbs are clearly my nemesis.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  6. #3081
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Nice job handling the mishap, AJet.

  7. #3082
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Nice job handling the mishap, AJet.
    Thanks. I could have crashed twice on the last lap yesterday. I guess it's karma plus $100, but I still have all my skin.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  8. #3083
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Well done A'Jet...always have a plan.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  9. #3084
    Senior Member ericm979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    My power numbers just aren't enough to indicate an unrecoverable blowup, but then there is some weirdness in the numbers. They also don't match how totally spent my legs are, and my HR was disproportional to the power output. My max HR ever recorded is 188, and I was at 184-5 for maybe 5 minutes. But those power numbers are averages. I didn't really see anything on the ride to indicate the PM was way off, other than the numbers being maybe even lower than the totally dogging it pace I was maintaining. Normally, if I hit the wall, I can't get my HR up, because my legs won't work hard enough to do so. This time, my HR was elevated the whole time.
    High HR and low power in this case are due to being overheated. The HR is high because your body is moving a lot of blood to the surface, trying to shed some heat. Since the blood isn't going to the legs you don't make as much power. Being dehydrated doesn't help but even if you are fully hydrated you can overheat. I've seen it myself a number of times.

    I like your wife's explanation better though.

  10. #3085
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    We are back from racing and training at Velo Sports Center and we had a blast. Here are some pics from the LAVRA racing.

    Here is the standing start in the 500 meters.



    500 meters rounding the turn. My head is up but I am not confident keeping it lower and decreasing visibility...yet. The new Shimano Pro Missile aerobars worked great.



    Here is my wife in the 500 meters using the narrow 3T bars.



    Here she is in the 2K pursuit.



    All photos courtesy of Pat Bensen the LAVRA photographer.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  11. #3086
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Nice tire, AJ! I'll bet that was exciting. Not too exciting, though, I hope!

    Ex and Hermes, I can't thank you fellas enough for the encouragement, the advice, and the respect. Really, I am humbled. I went into those races "to get a taste". I had no idea that it was a David vs. Goliath proposition. However, I come away from the weekend with a new found appreciation for what you fellas have accomplished, and for the level of fitness you've attained and maintain to be where you are in the sport. I also understand your passion, now. I feel it, too. I come away from this weekend loving what I experienced, and I ONLY hunger for more. I mean that. I may never amount to anything on my bicycle, but the road to trying to improve is going to be challenging and rewarding, like both of those races were.

    "In case those of us with less experience don't say so often enough, let me take this opportunity to say I appreciate your advice, and that of others. You haven't much to gain from spending time in this thread, and speaking for myself, I find it really helpful as well as interesting."

    Chasm, I could not have said it better. May I add a huge and heart felt thank you to you all?
    Last edited by sarals; 04-22-12 at 11:01 PM.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  12. #3087
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    I may never amount to anything on my bicycle, but the road to trying to improve is going to be challenging and rewarding, like both of those races were.
    Sara, you already amount to something on your bike. You may not be as fast or as fit as you want to be, but when you look at yourself relative to the general population you are faster and fitter than 99% of women your age, and having a better time as a result.

    The way I see it, the priority is to be as good as I can be. If that turns out to be good enough to win now and again, that would be great. But the object is to fulfil my potential and have a great time doing it.

    Hermes, great pics.
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

  13. #3088
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    The beauty of this forum is that I can ask this question: Will Rain-Ex work on my Rudy Project glasses? I would have taken them off in Saturdays race, in the misty rain, but was concerned with getting debris in my eyes. The fog and dirt on the lenses truly made it difficult to look ahead.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  14. #3089
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Hermes, those shots are unbelievable. Really. Both of you look so pro. My favorite shot is Mrs. Hermes with the crit bars (ya, I know, but they'll always be crit bars to a crit racer like me).

  15. #3090
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    The beauty of this forum is that I can ask this question: Will Rain-Ex work on my Rudy Project glasses? I would have taken them off in Saturdays race, in the misty rain, but was concerned with getting debris in my eyes. The fog and dirt on the lenses truly made it difficult to look ahead.
    Supposedly, yes. I didn't have a chance to get to the auto parts store. I was planning on trying it. Guys I trust endorse it.

  16. #3091
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Good job Sara. Keep your head up and press on. Your sample size for comparison is tipped against you as compared to us older guys. I recently did a race that had 79 55+ men entered. Your race category at the same event would have been "Women".


    Keep on your training plan and rate your progress against your own performances. Do we need to implore that you HTFU? I am guessing, no.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  17. #3092
    Senior Member ericm979's Avatar
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    Sara- I've seen almost crashes on that neutralized descent in the M45+ cat 5 and cat 4. It's not normal to be slowed down like that on a descent, and that affects the pack dynamics. It makes me want to be on the back for the descent, but if you do that you're on the back for the larger of the climbs on the circuit, where it's easier to get dropped or to get gapped off the lead group.

    A good part of racing is learning the courses, where the trouble spots are and what to do about them. BTW, in that RR finish pic it looks like you dropped one of your competitors, who is probably quite a bit younger. Nice!


    I've tried Rain-x on my glasses and had mixed results. Put on the front, it makes it harder to see in mist because the drops get big bit don't run off the glasses. It might be better in a driving rain but it's worse in mist/light rain. On the inside it seems like it helps prevent fogging for a while, like one ride, then makes the fogging worse.

  18. #3093
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Velo Diva and Hermes are the epitome of pro, but she always looks just a touch even more pro. Great shots.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  19. #3094
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    One other interesting thing from Saturday - I experienced a fair amount of front wheel oscillation - enough to be a bit disconcerting at 45+ in a pack. I had less-severe episodes last fall in a RR, and a few weeks ago in a crit, enough that someone had commented each time. I took the bike in last fall (the red frame that has since been broken and replaced), talked to the wrench, and we ended up deciding it was the wind attaching and detaching from the Zipps. This felt a bit different, but that could have just been the faster speed. I tried clamping my legs on the TT and making sure my hands were loose on the bars, to no effect. I still got an intermittent, irregular wobble. It never escalated in amplitude, didn't have a regular 'frequency', and I'm still thinking its airflow related. It has never happened with non-aero wheels.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  20. #3095
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Is your headset in good shape and tight?

  21. #3096
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Velo Diva and Hermes are the epitome of pro, but she always looks just a touch even more pro. Great shots.
    So true.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  22. #3097
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Is your headset in good shape and tight?
    Yes. In fact I tightened it a few weeks ago when it had loosened a touch, and I checked it after the RR to see if it was a factor... feels just fine. Front tire slowly lost its air after the race, and I'll be getting a new tire put on before Sunday's crit, but the downhills were at the beginning, and it was certainly fine then.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  23. #3098
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Shovel - congratulations on your dramatic entry into 55+ as described in the 33. Heck of a way to win. Those who haven't seen the post should check it out.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  24. #3099
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Thank you very much.

  25. #3100
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Nice work shoveld! I'm glad AZTR made note of the report as I don't go to the 33 much.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

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