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Masters Racing (All Disciplines) Race on the track or road or on your mountainbike in the Masters Category? Want to talk tactics, strategy and training with your peers?

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Old 05-05-12, 11:04 PM   #3276
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Hi Hermes, thanks for the encouragement and kind words. It's always a pleasure to see and ride with you and Velo Diva. My experience is that if I'm climbing in anything smaller than a 39 X 23 on a climb of 6% or less, I'm going to get dropped. I had a 25 for last week's race where there were some 8% ramps. I got dropped anyway.

AzTR, looking forward to giving you a lead out in SoCal.

Today was a really strange day. Can't get into the details for several reasons but everything is basically fine right now. I ended up riding 56 miles instead of 100+ miles so I guess I'll have to race harder in tomorrow's TT. My, I have plenty of excuses, no pressure race is out the window.
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Old 05-06-12, 12:04 PM   #3277
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We did the HDC track session last night - warmup, 2x20 intervals and 50 lap motor game. I lasted until lap 46 of the motor game where I spun out in 90.6 gear inches. I did the session in aerobars. As far as fatigue and breathing, I was fine but with a kilo to go (4 laps), I did not have enough rpms left to keep matching the acceleration to the finish.
Intensity really is king. I took a fairly common path into cycling, riding with a club that emphasized longer and longer distances. Fortunately, this usually involved climbing, so I stumbled into some intensity unintentionally. A couple years into the sport, I had read plenty of the usual literature that highlighted the critical importance of intensity to getting stronger/faster. But I can recall two epiphanies in particular that really made this hit home.

1) My first "speed work" training ride -- not quite a practice crit trainer, but close. I was in pretty good climbing shape at the time, but got dropped from the first lap of this ride. I was baffled. Part of that was mental, just understanding the flow. But a significant part was also physical... my inexperience with that specific kind of intensity. It only took a few weeks (of this once/week ride) to see surprising results.

2) Roger's sessions at the Velo Sports Center. When I first started doing these, I was at a fairly stagnant point in my training. I was astounded at how rapidly this track work improved both my fitness and power. It really isn't too surprising in retrospect, given that I have never had the discipline to do anything remotely like intervals on my own... and Roger's sessions are intense and interval-ish. That the track is so fun, just makes this the biggest win-win in cycling for me.

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Old 05-07-12, 08:08 AM   #3278
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Track yesterday on the new pursuit rig. Some flying kilos, a couple of standing starts, then 5 CdA runs testing out some equipment. With warmup 75 TSS and my legs are sore today.

Old eyes are a PIA. I thought I was warming up on an 86. Last lap on the group warm up I'm on the front. No one came around. Turns out I mis-read the rear cog and I was on an 81. This would explain the 144RPM and my bouncing along like a rabbit.

More tests to come.
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Old 05-07-12, 08:58 AM   #3279
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Track yesterday on the new pursuit rig. Some flying kilos, a couple of standing starts, then 5 CdA runs testing out some equipment. With warmup 75 TSS and my legs are sore today.

Old eyes are a PIA. I thought I was warming up on an 86. Last lap on the group warm up I'm on the front. No one came around. Turns out I mis-read the rear cog and I was on an 81. This would explain the 144RPM and my bouncing along like a rabbit.

More tests to come.
I think that track workouts are a lot harder on a per pedal revolution metric basis than the road. I did a couple of sprint tournaments and was very sore and fatigued the next day. My hypo is that there has to be a track multiplier for the TSS score and that the formulation that calculates TSS does not accurately reflect how hard the workout was.

On the 250 track, we have to start out at a much higher speed to keep from slipping down the track putting out more effort than I would like. At Hellyer, we can go slower at the start and warmup more slowly. Of course, one could warmup off the track on rollers which many do.

You are not alone in putting on the wrong gears. According to a woman VSP racer who trained with Sarah Hammer. Sarah used to race in an 88. She accidentally used a 14 on the rear versus a 15 that put her in a 94.5. She did much better racing in the bigger gear and now races in a 96.
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Old 05-07-12, 09:08 AM   #3280
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It wasn't cycling, but it was a race. At the Wildflower Triathlon, my team, the Loopin' Lupine Ladies, Masters Women, took third in the Olympic Distance Relay. The conditions were horrid, 90 plus degrees, but we did it. I had the toughest run I've ever experienced, and I blew up on San Antonio Hill, but I got it back and finished fairly strong. It was enough, and we made the podium.

Whew...

Now, back to bicycle racing!
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Old 05-07-12, 09:21 AM   #3281
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Intensity really is king. I took a fairly common path into cycling, riding with a club that emphasized longer and longer distances. Fortunately, this usually involved climbing, so I stumbled into some intensity unintentionally. A couple years into the sport, I had read plenty of the usual literature that highlighted the critical importance of intensity to getting stronger/faster. But I can recall two epiphanies in particular that really made this hit home.

1) My first "speed work" training ride -- not quite a practice crit trainer, but close. I was in pretty good climbing shape at the time, but got dropped from the first lap of this ride. I was baffled. Part of that was mental, just understanding the flow. But a significant part was also physical... my inexperience with that specific kind of intensity. It only took a few weeks (of this once/week ride) to see surprising results.

2) Roger's sessions at the Velo Sports Center. When I first started doing these, I was at a fairly stagnant point in my training. I was astounded at how rapidly this track work improved both my fitness and power. It really isn't too surprising in retrospect, given that I have never had the discipline to do anything remotely like intervals on my own... and Roger's sessions are intense and interval-ish. That the track is so fun, just makes this the biggest win-win in cycling for me.
VanceMac: Welcome

I started doing Roger's sessions last year when I visit SoCal. I really like them a lot. Roger loves those 20 to 60 second z4 bridging power efforts. And many of the racers at VSP can really pop off some amazing efforts so the pace is fast and you get the incentive to hold the wheel in front which I think is easier mentally than generating the effort solo.

Prior to the 7PM, I watched his 4PM session, where he coaches his athletes, to get some ideas for workouts and later joined in. Many of the racers do the 4 to 7 workout and then do the 7 to 9. I have done the 4PM and then the warmup for the 7PM but by then I am cooked.

The other guys to watch for ideas are Team USA's sprint team. These guys are reeeeeeally good and do some interesting drills.
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Old 05-07-12, 09:21 AM   #3282
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It was enough, and we made the podium
Well done!
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Old 05-07-12, 09:32 AM   #3283
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Congrats Sara on the podium.
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Old 05-07-12, 09:37 AM   #3284
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Way to go, Sara!
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Old 05-07-12, 09:54 AM   #3285
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I saw the British track team training at Manchester. One of the unforgettable sights was the flying 200 done behind a motorbike - from the top of the banking!
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Old 05-07-12, 10:29 AM   #3286
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VanceMac: Welcome
Thanks Hermes. After reading through this thread/sub-forum, this seems to have the best signal-to-noise ratio on BF. At least for my curmudgeon sensibilties.

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Roger loves those 20 to 60 second z4 bridging power efforts. And many of the racers at VSP can really pop off some amazing efforts so the pace is fast and you get the incentive to hold the wheel in front which I think is easier mentally than generating the effort solo.
Love this aspect. I do a lot of hard rides, road and mountain, but nothing beats the leg burn and warm endorphin glow after a Roger's Session.

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I think that track workouts are a lot harder on a per pedal revolution metric basis than the road. I did a couple of sprint tournaments and was very sore and fatigued the next day. My hypo is that there has to be a track multiplier for the TSS score and that the formulation that calculates TSS does not accurately reflect how hard the workout was.
Quite agree. I think it is a combination of several subtle factors, which results in yet another track win: very efficient workout.

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You are not alone in putting on the wrong gears. According to a woman VSP racer who trained with Sarah Hammer. Sarah used to race in an 88. She accidentally used a 14 on the rear versus a 15 that put her in a 94.5. She did much better racing in the bigger gear and now races in a 96.
On a related note, when I first started doing Roger's, I was a bit perplexed why everyone was changing cogs between the intervals and motor game. I naively thought "is that really necessary?" Didn't take long to realize what everyone here already knows. For me, (49x) 15t is perfect for the intervals, but spin out with 10 to go in motor game. The 14t is perfect for the motor game, but too sluggish for the intervals. Thank goodness for double-sided hubs.
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Old 05-07-12, 10:58 AM   #3287
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Thanks Hermes. After reading through this thread/sub-forum, this seems to have the best signal-to-noise ratio on BF. At least for my curmudgeon sensibilties.
Especially since more folks have found the thread and joined in. Let me add my welcome, but I think we've now reached our thread immigration limit for trackies!

I'm working on getting a TT bike put together, but I understand that's the entry drug-bike for trackie addiction, so...
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Old 05-07-12, 11:08 AM   #3288
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Sara - that's fantastic that you got the podium. Way to go!!
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Old 05-07-12, 11:10 AM   #3289
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Especially since more folks have found the thread and joined in. Let me add my welcome, but I think we've now reached our thread immigration limit for trackies!

I'm working on getting a TT bike put together, but I understand that's the entry drug-bike for trackie addiction, so...
Thanks AZ, but I'm just a poseur, so maybe I only count as half a person on the quota?

I grew up in Scottsdale, btw. If you were riding there in the 80's, you may know my dad. I had not yet seen the light.
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Old 05-07-12, 12:48 PM   #3290
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Thanks everyone!

Next up..CCCX Circuit Race, June 3rd...
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Old 05-07-12, 01:20 PM   #3291
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Congrats, sarals!
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Old 05-07-12, 02:48 PM   #3292
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ShovelHD, From your report in the 33, congrats on a great day of racing this weekend.
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Old 05-07-12, 03:48 PM   #3293
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Had a nice tempo ride: AKA crit race. RATL #3 . A 1.2 mile loop in a park for 12 miles for the Cat 5s. Lasted longer than race #1; 2 laps this time and average speed is up , 22 this time 20 last time. Pulled a 15 year old around and shared some work with him, and gave him a pull for the last lap so he could "sprint " the finish to appease his fans. It was cool being the leadout. HR was still 170 average, but it felt easier, and more fun. Should be able to hang with a group in another month,.. or two,,, and be ready to race by......... April, 2013...Now back to my elongated base training..
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Old 05-07-12, 06:01 PM   #3294
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Racer Ex, I was looking at some hill climb data from last year. A male / female tandem team placed 3rd up Kings Mountain in 20:32 with a VAM of 1821.6. They were ~ 1:30 behind the first place finisher who is the hill climb champion of Ireland. That is scary fast.
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Old 05-07-12, 06:44 PM   #3295
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Racer Ex, I was looking at some hill climb data from last year. A male / female tandem team placed 3rd up Kings Mountain in 20:32 with a VAM of 1821.6. They were ~ 1:30 behind the first place finisher who is the hill climb champion of Ireland. That is scary fast.
Indeed (throwing my Sean Kelly phrased used most on Eurosport in there).

Congrats Sara and Shovel. Great work this weekend.

Pouring over the test data from Sunday. CdA numbers look much better than my Elite Nats pursuit. I pretty much threw on my aerobar cockpit "as was". The result was a 4cm drop in elbow placement,and a tighter fit on a faster frame. The drag improvement was nearly 2mph at my 4km wattage for that event.

So if you had a choice between going for the hour world record in your age group, or a win at track worlds, where would you point that stick?
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Old 05-07-12, 08:12 PM   #3296
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Indeed (throwing my Sean Kelly phrased used most on Eurosport in there).
I'll see your indeed and raise you a "playing the waiting game."


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So if you had a choice between going for the hour world record in your age group, or a win at track worlds, where would you point that stick?
If I were in shape to break the hour record, I might just win the track worlds for fun as part of my training programme.

Seriously, I am never going to face this choice unless I stay injury-free into my nineties. But I'm a bit of a romantic. The hour has a mystique like nothing else, IMO.
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Old 05-07-12, 08:17 PM   #3297
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Thank you, Hermes and RacerEx. I am enjoying my rest week so far.

Ex, no doubt in my mind. Hour record. It takes a very special person to accomplish something like that.
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Old 05-07-12, 08:30 PM   #3298
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The hour record and track worlds are two completely different training routines. The hour record is a large volume training routine with increasing intensity and a lot of track time. And you have to have the UCI officials present with timing equipment. Theoretically, that could be done at elite nationals at VSP assuming they have it there.

Track worlds is a very pro event. I did it and just participating is an amazing experience. Winning and going on the podium for the playing of the national anthem and flag raising ceremony must be a total rush. I observed a lot of them.

Since both are difficult to do and require specific training and focus, a lot has to do with money and time. I would go for stripes first and then the record.
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Old 05-08-12, 06:18 AM   #3299
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Great results Sara and shovelhd! dadof7, I raced RATL on Sat and will be racing there again this week. We should meet up if you are racing this week
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Old 05-08-12, 08:22 AM   #3300
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I have to work this Saturday . Love that race. It will be a sure measure of my progress for next year. I won't be racing again until the Shreve race June 10 th, if it happens, or the Wooster Crit June 16th.
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